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3D is Not Dead... - Page 3

post #61 of 322
1/21/13 at 12:16pm
3D is not dead. Its alive, its alive!



Couldn't resist. biggrin.gif
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post #62 of 322
1/21/13 at 12:16pm
del
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post #63 of 322
1/21/13 at 4:15pm
Indeed, I turn the depth down to just a few clicks above zero. The depth cues can be very helpful, no need for eye strain. I am using a passive set which I think also helps make the gaming experience more pleasing.

Importantly, with Nvidia 3D vision the convergence control is an advanced setting which has to be activated in the 3D settings control panel. It's the key to 'getting it right' but at first it's not obvious how to get it to work. I ended up Googling it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaMiR View Post

You can adjust 3D depth and convergence for most games with 3D Vision so they could had too much depth or convergence or both when you saw it at CES2009.

Edited by imagic - 1/22/13 at 1:08am
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post #64 of 322
1/22/13 at 4:53pm

Forget 3D bring in 8K :)

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post #65 of 322
1/23/13 at 7:12am
There probably wasn't a lot of talk about Blu-Ray or DTS-MA HD at CES either but they are very well not dead either.
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post #66 of 322
1/23/13 at 7:42am
I think when we see glasses-free 3D at an affordable price, the technology will excite consumers more... The current 3D is pretty cool in the right circumstance, but will really need to be glasses-free and viewable from multiple angles at an affordable price for most consumers to really be excited for it. The technology apparently IS there, but will take a few years to be readily available and a few more years to be affordable IMO.
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post #67 of 322
1/23/13 at 8:22am
Here's a good article with numbers. 3D is very far from being dead.

http://www.isuppli.com/Media-Research/News/Pages/Global-3-D-Market-Flourishes-Across-Cinema-Home-Video-and-TV-VoD-Platforms.aspx
The global 3-D consumer market is thriving in a dynamic environment marked by clear and discernible growth across its major platforms, including cinema, home video and pay-TV video on demand, with international markets continuing to make major contributions to the industry, according to an IHS Screen Digest Cross Platform Intelligence report from information and analytics provider IHS.

Worldwide metrics are on the rise for 3-D technology as a whole. The number of 3-D screens is up fourfold over a period of three years, while 3-D box office climbed in the double digits from 2010 to 2011. The 3-D home-video market is also showing strong growth, bucking the overall trend of a declining physical video market, with U.S spending on Blu-ray 3-D nearly doubling in 2012 from last year’s levels. More 3-D TV channels worldwide are likewise now available, including one just launched in China, with plenty of potential for expansion in the years ahead for 3-D Video-on-Demand service.
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post #68 of 322
1/23/13 at 9:02am
I agree that most mid-high end tv's include 3D, but is it really because the market is demanding it or is it because the manufacturers are including it? I think there is a niche market for it, but until a group of people can watch it glasses-free from multiple angles and do so affordably, I don't see the market demanding it- people are buying it simply because most new tv's that are mid-high end and/or include smart/streaming application come with it..IMO
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post #69 of 322
1/23/13 at 9:02am
I agree that most mid-high end tv's include 3D, but is it really because the market is demanding it or is it because the manufacturers are including it? I think there is a niche market for it, but until a group of people can watch it glasses-free from multiple angles and do so affordably, I don't see the market demanding it- people are buying it simply because most new tv's that are mid-high end and/or include smart/streaming application come with it..IMO
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post #70 of 322
1/23/13 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan View Post

I agree that most mid-high end tv's include 3D, but is it really because the market is demanding it or is it because the manufacturers are including it?

I think that's a fair assessment. Just because I've got an old 3D VHS tape of Creature From the Black Lagoon complete with paper glasses, and the 3D on that tape still works on any display to this day, doesn't mean the 80's 3D fad never died. Of course the technology will be available and work in the future--the only question will be how many people will actually use it.

Arguments that 3D will live just because the technology will still exist in the future are much like my red and blue tinted lagoon friend saying "Don't call it a comeback--I've been here for years." It's all about 3D tickets and titles sold (when a choice exists). That is the only metric by which the 80's 3D fad ever ended. No other metric really means much.
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post #71 of 322
1/23/13 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan View Post

I agree that most mid-high end tv's include 3D, but is it really because the market is demanding it or is it because the manufacturers are including it?

I agree that the manucaturers are including it, but is it because they just having fun spending millons purposelessly, or is it the market demanding it?

Well you could just read the whole article at the link if you're really interested in answer, or at least the whole post.
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3-D box office climbed in the double digits from 2010 to 2011. The 3-D home-video market is also showing strong growth, bucking the overall trend of a declining physical video market, with U.S spending on Blu-ray 3-D nearly doubling in 2012 from last year’s levels.

2012-12-20_3D.jpg
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post #72 of 322
1/23/13 at 9:49am
I did read the post, and scanned the article- still most new mid-high end tvs have 3D.. and most people who buy a tv that happens to come with it- whether a selling point or not- are going to at least buy 1 or 2 3D discs just to see what it does. considering that the amount of tvs with 3d has increased by so much, I still don't think an increase from 1.9 B to 2.0 B really proves that the market is demanding it. I highly doubt it's going away any time soon, but I still wouldn't consider it a selling point for most buyers until maybe it's glasses free. It's far from dead, but I still don't believe it's necessarily desired much either.
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post #73 of 322
1/23/13 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devedander View Post

I always wonder when peope remind us that a large part of the population has eye problems... do those people not see 3D in real life? I have to imagine that for those who really can't see 3D the percentage is small and for those who see hampered 3D... well that's how they see it IRL too so if that's howt hey see it in the movies, what's so bad about that?

I have a problem where my eyes only function in "mono". I don't see out of both eyes at the same time. Both eyes are seeing what is presented to them, but my brain is only registering one image at a time. What I see out of that eye is in 3d, but both eyes are not being captured at the same time. I can "force" my brain/eyes to see both images at the same time, but it causes severe strain on my eyes, so that after about 5 minutes I have a severe headache.

So, for me, 3D does not work at I can't capture the two distinct images that are being presented through the glasses for the 3D. So, for me, 3D is not an option.
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post #74 of 322
1/23/13 at 10:35am
Here is a real world scenario. Your going to buy a 70" LED. Your choices are a Vizio, a Sharp 640 or a Sharp 745. They have all been advertized with the 745 (the only 3D model) being approx. $100 (Fry's $1999) more than the other two TV's. You will also need a 3D blu-ray player for $100. So, keeping in mind you are the average family with 2 kids, do you spend the extra $200 for the 3D TV and player or is the $200 savings worth it to go with the 2D display?
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post #75 of 322
1/23/13 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Here is a real world scenario. Your going to buy a 70" LED...you are the average family with 2 kids

Nope, the average family would not do that. Try 42".
Edited by CatBus - 1/23/13 at 11:00am
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post #76 of 322
1/23/13 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan View Post

I did read the post, and scanned the article- still most new mid-high end tvs have 3D.. and most people who buy a tv that happens to come with it- whether a selling point or not- are going to at least buy 1 or 2 3D discs just to see what it does. considering that the amount of tvs with 3d has increased by so much, I still don't think an increase from 1.9 B to 2.0 B really proves that the market is demanding it. I highly doubt it's going away any time soon, but I still wouldn't consider it a selling point for most buyers until maybe it's glasses free. It's far from dead, but I still don't believe it's necessarily desired much either.

Actually, by saying "manufacturers just having fun spending millons purposelessly on 3D" I was just joking , but it looks like you're insisting - that yes, companies are spending money on something without a demand for it on the market? Do you imply that there is some conspiracy between manufacturers to push 3D against consumers will?

And the other question, if doubling of 3D BD sells on a declining market is not "demanding", then could you please define "demanding"?
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post #77 of 322
1/23/13 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

Nope, the average family would not do that. Try 42".
My scenario, my average family. Besides, the size of the family is not the point. Spending an extra $200 for 3D is the point. I see that right now several sites is listing the 70 Vizio for under $1600 which throws a new fly in the oatmeal.
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post #78 of 322
1/23/13 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

My scenario, my average family. Besides, the size of the family is not the point. Spending an extra $200 for 3D is the point. I see that right now several sites is listing the 70 Vizio for under $1600 which throws a new fly in the oatmeal.

No, the scenario simply doesn't work with a 70" set--because a 70" set is so far outside the average family that we're clearly talking about enthusiast territory here, nothing typical about it. And enthusiasts, as we know from experience, would spend $200 for a different colored bezel, let alone 3D. So in your scenario, yes, they would spend the extra $200 without batting an eye, because they are enthusiasts, not at all a typical family. I'm not saying they're bad people for buying it, I'm just saying they're not average people, and not a lot can be inferred about the world from the behavior of people who are way, way outside the norm.
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post #79 of 322
1/23/13 at 2:51pm
Wal-Mart has four different 70" sets for sale, including one by a 'bargain' brand. I think 70" sets are definitely on many families wish lists, not just 'enthusiasts'. When will they have a 70" with 3D is another question, but I figure we'll see that soon enough as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

No, the scenario simply doesn't work with a 70" set--because a 70" set is so far outside the average family that we're clearly talking about enthusiast territory here, nothing typical about it. And enthusiasts, as we know from experience, would spend $200 for a different colored bezel, let alone 3D. So in your scenario, yes, they would spend the extra $200 without batting an eye, because they are enthusiasts, not at all a typical family. I'm not saying they're bad people for buying it, I'm just saying they're not average people, and not a lot can be inferred about the world from the behavior of people who are way, way outside the norm.

Edited by imagic - 1/23/13 at 3:30pm
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post #80 of 322
1/23/13 at 3:46pm
The question is not if they're for sale, who is selling them, or even if any are selling, but if they're being bought by the average consumer. The middle of the bell curve. 50% buying larger than 70", 50% buying smaller. It is crazy to think this describes actual consumer behavior right now.
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post #81 of 322
1/23/13 at 3:54pm
40"-55" is the 'sweet spot' - not just in price/performance but also 'proper fit' - for quite a few folks. Perfect for the bedroom/den. A smaller set perhaps for the kitchen or kids... and the $995 70" 3D TV does not exist yet which is a barrier - but there's no reason to believe the average family doesn't want at least one TV that size in their house, and since most households have multiple TV sets but would likely only have one that large, that means total sales of 70" sets would only be a fraction of total sales, even if they were to be adopted by 50% of families. Clearly, larger TV sets are a top priority.

Some numbers:
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Almost half (48%) of consumers planning to purchase a TV in the next 12 months will be replacing an aging, obsolete or broken set. However, half (51%) sid that they would like to see in their new set improved picture quality and half (50%) want a larger screen size. A quarter (24%) of those intending to purchase a TV over the next year expect to purchase a 3DTV; 21% plan to purchase an OLED display; and a quarter of consumers (25%) plan to purchase an Internet-enabled TV. While stated purchase intentions do not always translate to transactions, the study clearly shows many consumers have their eyes fixed on newer TV technologies.

Read more: More video, more platforms, but TV sales based on screen size, picture quality, innovation | Rapid TV News http://www.rapidtvnews.com/index.php/2012051621885/more-video-more-platforms-but-tv-sales-based-on-screen-size-picture-quality-innovation.html#ixzz2IqVtMJ8N
source
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

The question is not if they're for sale, who is selling them, or even if any are selling, but if they're being bought by the average consumer. The middle of the bell curve. 50% buying larger than 70", 50% buying smaller. It is crazy to think this describes actual consumer behavior right now.
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post #82 of 322
1/23/13 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

but there's no reason to believe the average family doesn't want at least one TV that size in their house

There's also no reason to assume they don't also want a pony, and yet pony ownership is sadly on the decline. Wanting isn't buying.
Quote:
since most households have multiple TV sets that means total sales of 70" sets would only be a fraction of total sales, even if they were to be adopted by 50% of families.

I don't think there's any way you can bake the numbers to make it look like most households have 70" sets, or are buying them this year, or next year, or anything like that. It's not (currently) a mainstream purchase.

Okay, this derail went on longer than I thought. 40-55" is the sweet spot as you said. Consumer behavior may change over time, but it's been stuck in that same sweet spot for quite a while now.
Edited by CatBus - 1/23/13 at 4:47pm
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post #83 of 322
1/23/13 at 4:35pm
I would also add that just because they "intend to buy" a tv with such and such feature, it doesn't mean that is a selling point for them- I plan on buying a new vehicle this year and one could say that I "intend to buy" a car with power windows... it doesn't mean I want power windows- it just has them... Similarly someone may intend to purchase a 3d or smart tv but it doesn't mean that is WHY they are buying it- just my 2 cents..

I also HIGHLY doubt the typical family is buying a 70 inch tv for their living room, 42-55 inch maybe. And I'm not familiar with pony market.
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post #84 of 322
1/25/13 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

Nope, the average family would not do that. Try 42".
I would have to agree here. 42-55
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan View Post

Similarly someone may intend to purchase a 3d or smart tv but it doesn't mean that is WHY they are buying it- just my 2 cents..
Exactly.
Or you have someone like me who waited a year and a half for a decent drop. As soon as I saw a decently priced 55" Vizio 3D, I grabbed it last July. This was after picking up a cheap 42" Insignia from BB to replace a stolen TV in 2010

Is 3D dead? I wouldn't say so. We had some pretty decent 3D movies come out last year (Avengers, Hobbit just to name a couple), and we'll see some good ones this year.
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post #85 of 322
1/25/13 at 2:21pm
Naw, 3D is dying. It is cool for a few movies but loses it's appeal. It has no long term market. Higher resolution 4K and 8K screens are where it's going to be over the next decade. Clarity is king!
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post #86 of 322
1/25/13 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyS View Post


3D is not dead….not yet anyways. When scouting for articles on-line, many journalists are writing about how 3D is dead. Most of the articles that read 3D is dead have been posted during or the week following the Consumer Electronic Show. The 3D spark is maybe gone, but 3D is all around us and I believe it’s still only the beginning.
I have to say with most of the news posts the team and I have been posting actually show that there’s been an increase in 3D. It’s obvious that at this year’s CES show, UHD Display’s were the main event but it’s not to say that most of the 4K (UHD displays) had 3D feature built in. Most manufacturers at the show did not emphasize anything major in 3D, but I believe that Ultra High Definition screens in conjunction with 3D is something to recognize in itself. Now having a true 3D with 1080p in each eye will definitely help with resolution and clarity.
I know 3D isn’t a popular subject because of some of it’s annoyances and limitations. But I still have some hopes with 3D and wanted to share with everyone that with my findings, 3D wasn’t dead. Chris Chinnock from Display-Central said it well in this quote: “3D is maturing with a continual flow of new products, innovations, content and business deals. It just won’t be so “in your face” – so to speak.”




Source
I agree! I stopped buying non 3D movies. My Samsung 8000 series really brings them to life! The other day my son went to grab an SR-71 model I have off the TV stand in the middle of a 3D movie the wife and I were watching and we both started cracking up when he did! He was standing directly between two people on screen about his size IRL and it literally looked like he was between the two in distance! The person on the right was literally closer to us than he was and the one to the left was back a bit. This moment really solidified 3D for my wife but opened my eyes as to how amazing it really is! I can't believe every movie isn't in 3D now! I mean really! Why aren't they?
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post #87 of 322
1/25/13 at 2:23pm
They have been fooling around with 3D for years , seems like way back in the 50s and it always goes away. Maybe if they come up with a good glasses free 3D it might fly. I just purchased a new TV but 3D did not interest me so I got one without.
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post #88 of 322
1/25/13 at 2:24pm
No idea if 3D is here to stay or not, but my wife and I both do not like it at all. We wont go see a movie in 3D. I know plenty of people that like it and plenty that don't. I personally think it looks gimmicky.
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post #89 of 322
1/25/13 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cshawnmcdonald View Post



Aw c'mon. 3D has passed the cultural and market saturation tipping point. It's here. Relax. It's here. It's not going anywhere.

Guys like me who are "ehn" on 3D are buying it/own it merely because the price point drop has made the "to have or have not" debate irrelevant. I haven't used the crazy sound filters on my AV Receiver in 15 years, but I just bought a new one and... Damned if those settings weren't still there. Stadium. Sci-Fi. Blahbity-blah.

Stop proselytizing the concept of 3D and go back to arguing over passive vs. active vs. no glasses vs. the next version.

It's like debating the relevance of the remote. It's here. If the manufacturers aren't actively trying to sell you on it, it's because they've mainstreamed it to the point where they think you are already sold.

When the talking heads at The Verge and other outlets are saying this mess, influencing people with flat out lies, articles like this one are needed to set the record straight.

Heck, Vlad @ The Verge wrote an article titled "3D is dead". And the comments are full of people who agree!

So I'm VERY happy there's threads and articles like this.
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post #90 of 322
1/25/13 at 2:30pm
I'm older and not a movie fan and really have no use for 3D. What surprised me is my Son and his family just upgraded all of their entertainment center and did not want 3D. Even the grandkids said they really didn't care for it. And this wasn't a matter of affordability and they are all game players, have Xbox and PS3 and love movies.
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