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how long is a typical "break-in period" for speakers? - Page 2

post #31 of 68
I have had some speakers that seemed to change very little from the time they are new.

On the other hand, some speakers very definitely changed after 100 hours or more of use.

My current speakers did not seem to develop their full low-frequency performance until they had something between 50 and 100 hours on them.
post #32 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

But I agree; anyone who's listening during that time...has a far more likely chance, that their ears are changing than their speakers. I usually take a quick listen...as I'm human; then just run different program material...give it some decent volume when I can (to me, it's like stretching before a workout; you don't want to push too hard too fast...but you need to get the "muscles" moving), and let things run for a certain number of hours before I'll sit down to do any critical listening. To me...about a week, or 5-7 x ~20 hours a day, ought to be enough for just about any speaker.

I'm currently breaking in a pair of new subwoofer drivers having some low volume new age music being played through them. A couple of days ago it was 80's rock and the next day it was 50's/60's, Golden Oldies. I'm in the office and the speaker system (subwoofers) is in the living room. Yesterday I ran some Bach through them: "Toccata and Fugue in D Minor for Organ" and let it rip. Then turned the volume back down and called it good as the system went back to background music duty. Today, it's doing background music duty and then the first American football playoff game. Later, I want to run a Sammy Hagar piece, "Mas Tequila," through the system and then turn the volume back down. Yes, the bass has improved. This is not simply some placebo affect. I have excellent bass listening capabilities, my wife has excellent treble abilities. Between us both we have a rocking good time. tongue.gif

Not everything is pseudo or placebo but saying so, my opinion, sure sounds good to those who haven't taken the time to personally explore this issue.
post #33 of 68
I've never bothered to "break in" any new speakers or subs I've bought - I just start using them. I do remember noticing a change in my PB12-NSD after a few hours of playing, but I've never noticed a change in the Mordaunt-Short Carnival 6 speakers I've had for ~3 years. They sound about the same as the day I brought them home - which is to say, pretty good. smile.gif
post #34 of 68
This guy wants to proof that break in does change the sound, but what I found very interesting is the question that someone did.

here is the question :

Great video, I liked the silly grin on your face when you turned it up loud :-).

One question, would there be any difference between two speakers of the same make and type, both being either broken in or new. Just wondering if there could be any element of the differences heard here being down to quirks of how they are made.


here is the reply :

It's a good question. I'm sure there are some differences speaker to speaker, but I think one can assume a reasonable degree of consistency from a manufacturer like Celestion.
post #35 of 68
Inside the box with my new Fluance AVBP2 Bipolar Surround speakers;
"The break-in period for our speakers is about 10 hours of playing time at normal listening volumes. After this period the drivers will have had enough movement to perform at their peak level."
In other words, Hook them up and enjoy!
post #36 of 68
Typical speaker break-in time, 5 minutes. No, seriously.
post #37 of 68
Dennis Murphy tested a pair of CA aeros and the measurements did not change after 40 + hrs of play. The bmr driver were thought to have a long break in period...
post #38 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Wow; when I saw this topic posted, I thought...that's flame-bait, if ever I saw it, lol. But it seems to be pretty civil so far.

It's a tough subject for me; one I'm really on the fence about. I put it in the "it can't hurt" category; it can't hurt...just in case it allows the new speakers to sound their best...for me to run some music, 24/7 for a number of hours. But I agree; anyone who's listening during that time...has a far more likely chance, that their ears are changing than their speakers. I usually take a quick listen...as I'm human; then just run different program material...give it some decent volume when I can (to me, it's like stretching before a workout; you don't want to push too hard too fast...but you need to get the "muscles" moving), and let things run for a certain number of hours before I'll sit down to do any critical listening. To me...about a week, or 5-7 x ~20 hours a day, ought to be enough for just about any speaker.

Over the past 6 years, I've owned 4 pairs of Dynaudio monitors. Dyns are known to notoriously need a lot of break-in. I've heard some speakers...like the C1; might even pay dividends as things exceed 200 hours or so. I've even heard Dyn guys say...if you're listening during that time; you might even hear them open-up, then close-off...then open-up again, during that long break-in. IDK about all that. It's fine if that's someone's experience; and I will say that I think Dyn makes excellent drivers. I think Dyn's small, 6.5" drivers make pretty good bass for their size. If that means, they are built with very tight polymers...that are made to stretch, and really extend the excursion over time; I guess the whole break-in thing makes sense. As I said; I'm on the fence, but I don't really think it matters. There's no right or wrong here; no one ever got hurt by believing in break-in.

I find the psychology much more fascinating; and agree with the above assertion from Arny 100%. I'm an audiophile, that listens to many genres; much of it, very un-audiophile. Lo-fi, alt, noise-core (or whatever you'd label bands like Swans, GY!BE, Melvins, etc). But when I get new speakers...I tend to break out the good stuff, AQ-wise. You know: Alison Krauss, Diana Krall; all the audiophile darlings. Don't get me wrong; I'll listen to some other genres as well (like Lauryn Hill's The Miseducation Of...is a demo favorite). But, of course...I'm searching through my collection for the good-sounding stuff. Who wants to size their new speakers up, listening to lo-fi sh*t...even if it's what you might listen to otherwise. But...after the honeymoon, I need to force myself to break-out the day-in/day-out stuff. In addition to knowing what speakers sound like at their best...it's equally important, IMO, to know what they'll sound like at their worst.

In fact, it was this disparity...that lead to me dropping a very good speaker; in the Dynaudio Special 25. Fed the good stuff...the 25 can really shine. Really big bass, for its size (at least it sounded that way to me; let's not get into a measurements war here); good sizzle, when you wanted it. It was probably the best Rock "audiophile" speaker I've ever heard. You know...if you're the type of 'phile that needs to crank the Zep, Floyd, Heads, et al; when you're done with Alison and Diana. However...man was it revealing; read: sounded like sh*t, when fed the "bad" stuff. The 25 defenders say you have to really system match, which is cool; and then, really shape your room around it. While I'm fine with the idea that room treatment pays big dividends...I don't feel like a room should have to correct a speaker. Enhance, sure; but if you have to treat your room a lot, just to keep speakers from sounding like crap...that's the tail wagging the dog IMO.

Anyway, that's my 3-cents (and for the record...I'm certainly not bashing Special 25s. Great speakers; just not right for everyone, all systems, and all tastes. And again...all I'm saying is, they don't handle less than stellar audio as well as some. For many, that won't even be an issue; and for others...they want revealing. Warts and all). Good topic...and you guys are doing a good job keeping it on-track.

Nice post!!

I think that there is something else that needs to be considered & that is the tweaking of position etc. that most folks do in the early stages of ownership.
post #39 of 68
Interesting. I've never noticed my speakers sounding different over time. Maybe you have to be listening for it to notice.
post #40 of 68
i think this is only a placebo effect!
post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdwold View Post

Inside the box with my new Fluance AVBP2 Bipolar Surround speakers;
"The break-in period for our speakers is about 10 hours of playing time at normal listening volumes. After this period the drivers will have had enough movement to perform at their peak level."
In other words, Hook them up and enjoy!

Nothing like reviving a necro thread on a controversial issue rolleyes.gif
post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Dennis Murphy tested a pair of CA aeros and the measurements did not change after 40 + hrs of play. The bmr driver were thought to have a long break in period...

Here's the link
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1504045/cambridge-aero-2-bookshelf-speaker/180#post_24151030

Instead of reading that whole thread, skip directly to page 7 post #197. The FR curves, in the next post, measured before and after 50+ hours of run-in, are indistinguishable.

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/343867/

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/343869/

There were 3 blinded listeners. Two could hear no differences, and one heard a slight differences in bass.

After those posts, all the true believers (that break-in generates large audible improvements) vanished.
Edited by R Swerdlow - 1/15/14 at 7:47am
post #43 of 68
Science says that speakers will change their F3 slightly over a period of 40 hours. These changes are slight and, in my experience, not audible. Apparently we break into the speakers, not vice versa. I was invovlved once in a bias controlled test that made this conclusion and plain old logic should suffice. People who report sonic changes in speakers after break in always report improvements, never reductions in performance. Obviously, if it were anything but hearing bias, break in would cause an equal amount of positive and negative change. Familiarity makes the heart grow fonder. It works on me too just like it does on everybody else. I always prefer the sound of new speakers after I've grown accustomed to it.
post #44 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

Do this break in could be a manufacture strategy?

 

Of course it is.  If they tell you that you have to break them in, this means that you will not return them right away, but will keep them for a while.  That way, you have time to get used to them, and decide that you like them.  If they don't claim that there is break-in, then many people would make a snap judgement without giving them a proper audition, and so they would get more returns.

 

Notice, the truth is irrelevant to this strategy, and so a manufacturer is strongly motivated to tell you that the speaker needs break-in, regardless of what they know to be true about their speakers.  When someone has a strong motive to say one thing, there is generally little reason to believe them when they say it.  Very few people will let a little thing like the truth get in the way of them getting an income to feed their children.

post #45 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

IME it may have started out as a dealer strategy called the "30 day in-home trial". After 30 days most people adapt to changes.

The thing that changes the most after you install new speakers is you. Of course people have no way to attach meters to their heads to register the changes, but books like "This Is Your Brain On Music" explain the nuts and bolts of how our brains are programmed and reprogrammed by themselves to perceive pleasure. A new object has no track record of providing pleasure, which is one of the requirements for perceiving pleasure. So, how does a device build up a track record of providing pleasure? For sure it has to stay in service for a number of days to obtain that characteristic as far as the listener goes.

You can figure it out by inference. If you look at the only two articles I can find about measured changes in overall speaker performance during break in, you quickly reach the conclusion that the speakers don't change that much.

If you look at the earnest opinions about how people's perceptions of their new speakers changed in the days following their installation, it is clear that something changed.

There are only four major components to the system - the recordings, the speakers, the room, and the listener. If you study what people actually write, one of the things that may change right after people get new speakers is the recordings they listen to. Or not.

Based on the actual measurements which will probably become more common since more people are doing their own acoustical measurements at home, the speakers change hardly at all.

The room doesn't change itself.

That leaves the listener who we already know to be a very fluid and adaptable creature called a human being.

Go figure!

So what your saying is , if I went out and bought bose speakers all I have to do is listen to them long enough (and I will adapt to them ) and I will enjoy them as much as a $10,000.00 pair of speakers. Go Figure Who knew eh
post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socketman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

IME it may have started out as a dealer strategy called the "30 day in-home trial". After 30 days most people adapt to changes.

The thing that changes the most after you install new speakers is you. Of course people have no way to attach meters to their heads to register the changes, but books like "This Is Your Brain On Music" explain the nuts and bolts of how our brains are programmed and reprogrammed by themselves to perceive pleasure. A new object has no track record of providing pleasure, which is one of the requirements for perceiving pleasure. So, how does a device build up a track record of providing pleasure? For sure it has to stay in service for a number of days to obtain that characteristic as far as the listener goes.

You can figure it out by inference. If you look at the only two articles I can find about measured changes in overall speaker performance during break in, you quickly reach the conclusion that the speakers don't change that much.

If you look at the earnest opinions about how people's perceptions of their new speakers changed in the days following their installation, it is clear that something changed.

There are only four major components to the system - the recordings, the speakers, the room, and the listener. If you study what people actually write, one of the things that may change right after people get new speakers is the recordings they listen to. Or not.

Based on the actual measurements which will probably become more common since more people are doing their own acoustical measurements at home, the speakers change hardly at all.

The room doesn't change itself.

That leaves the listener who we already know to be a very fluid and adaptable creature called a human being.

Go figure!

So what your saying is , if I went out and bought bose speakers all I have to do is listen to them long enough (and I will adapt to them ) and I will enjoy them as much as a $10,000.00 pair of speakers. Go Figure Who knew eh

 

That is not what he is saying.  He is saying you will have a greater chance of growing to like them if you keep them for a while.  That does not mean that you will necessarily grow to like them.

post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I know some sub makers in the business and break in does occur, how much and how audible it will be, is left up to the marketing departments. I can say having built drivers, knowing people who design/build drivers, for the most part, big heavy sub surrounds will loosen up a bit and maybe change some T/S parameters but it's generally not audible enough to make it sound like a different sub. I can't speak for smaller drivers of all sorts of different materials but I'd bet it's the same as a sub.

What I always think is funny is that "break in" always seems to be positive.... You never hear of people buying speakers and taking tham back because they liked the sound at first but after they "broke in" they didn't like them anymore. I think that that fact alone is enough to call bunk to most claims of vast sonic differences.

 

Yes, the fact that it is always for the better indicates that it is not a real change in the speaker at all.  If it were, it could just as easily change for the worse.  This is a pretty strong reason to suppose that the reality is that the person is simply getting used to the sound, not that the sound is actually changing.

post #48 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

That is not what he is saying.  He is saying you will have a greater chance of growing to like them if you keep them for a while.  That does not mean that you will necessarily grow to like them.

Nor does it mean you would necessarily like some speakers the same or better than some others.
post #49 of 68
The best way to do it is, get a copy of War of the Worlds and play it at reference. When that is done, put in Transformers DOTM and after that the Dark knight Rises and that should just about do it.
post #50 of 68
The only subject that is more hotly debated than this is Amps sound different , dont get me started on power cables. I hadnever experienced or acknowledged this phenomenon until i read i saw it being debated in audio forums. I have owned plenty of new speakers and liked them(or adjusted to them ) from the get go. The only time i had ever experienced any change was when moving from one house to another. Recently when i replaced a sub driver in my kids sub (his room is next to mine) the new driver was definetly weaker . Now i work everyday and he is home every day and after a day or 2 i noticed that his sub was working alot better than when first installed. Now i cant explain what happened (he plays it at full all the time) but something happened mechancially because all we did was pull the driver out swapped 2 wires and pushed it back under his desk. I can say that the look on his face said it all when we first fired it up, it was lame for sure. Nothing was said at the time but later he mentioned it and we both said the same thing , that it had changed dramatically. So thats my experience, devoid of graphs or charts.
post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Nothing like reviving a necro thread on a controversial issue rolleyes.gif
Especially since all that needed to be said and more was said back on the first page. Me, I'm headed back to 'whogivesacrapanyway.com' to get back in on the debate about how many angels really can dance on the head of a pin. rolleyes.gif
post #52 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Science says that speakers will change their F3 slightly over a period of 40 hours. These changes are slight and, in my experience, not audible. Apparently we break into the speakers, not vice versa. I was invovlved once in a bias controlled test that made this conclusion and plain old logic should suffice. People who report sonic changes in speakers after break in always report improvements, never reductions in performance. Obviously, if it were anything but hearing bias, break in would cause an equal amount of positive and negative change. Familiarity makes the heart grow fonder. It works on me too just like it does on everybody else. I always prefer the sound of new speakers after I've grown accustomed to it.

Not true. I've had speakers I liked a lot when i first got them, only to hate them to the point I couldn't stand listening to them months down the road.
post #53 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobrew View Post

Not true. I've had speakers I liked a lot when i first got them, only to hate them to the point I couldn't stand listening to them months down the road.

OK. First time I've heard that. Guess we'll have to go back to the bias controlled listening tests.
post #54 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobrew View Post

Not true. I've had speakers I liked a lot when i first got them, only to hate them to the point I couldn't stand listening to them months down the road.

OK. First time I've heard that. Guess we'll have to go back to the bias controlled listening tests.

 

You should be more careful with your jesting.  Someone might take it seriously.

post #55 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobrew View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Science says that speakers will change their F3 slightly over a period of 40 hours. These changes are slight and, in my experience, not audible. Apparently we break into the speakers, not vice versa. I was invovlved once in a bias controlled test that made this conclusion and plain old logic should suffice. People who report sonic changes in speakers after break in always report improvements, never reductions in performance. Obviously, if it were anything but hearing bias, break in would cause an equal amount of positive and negative change. Familiarity makes the heart grow fonder. It works on me too just like it does on everybody else. I always prefer the sound of new speakers after I've grown accustomed to it.

Not true. I've had speakers I liked a lot when i first got them, only to hate them to the point I couldn't stand listening to them months down the road.

Changes in the speakers with time: small, and there are serious questions about whether or not they are large enough to be audible.

Changes in your preferences and what you will accept with time: very large.

Component break in is mostly a sales tool - designed to overcome buyer's remorse and get products to the end of the 30 day home trial period.
post #56 of 68

I have a question... I recently got Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 (the old model I know) I tested the speakers against Boston Acoustics A26 and Monitor Audio BX2 and the Wharfedale I liked the most (tested in store on my personal Yamaha that I brought to the store with me.. the Bostons was great on a Marantz.. not on my Yamaha AVR tho lol).

My question is... the guy at the store says he is running bookshelf speakers in the store.. the bostons already had 100 hours on `em.. the Wharfedale that i got had not more than 20-30.. I have listend to the speakers from low to medium volume (more low.. last night I kept em running at -42 db) so they already have more than 40-50 hours running.. can I try to play the speakers loud?... like -10 db? my yamaha is rated at 70W per channel at 6 ohms.. so my question is how loud can someone listen to speakers while they are still in break in perion (i do believe in it.. i mean it is good to star a little gentle with new speakers)

post #57 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzuky View Post

so my question is how loud can someone listen to speakers while they are still in break in perion
As loud as you want to, the initial stiffness of the suspension doesn't affect the speaker's ability to function.
post #58 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post


As loud as you want to, the initial stiffness of the suspension doesn't affect the speaker's ability to function.

Interesting I believe I have been told or read somewhere that it is not good to play speakers loud in the first 30-40 hours at least, on the other hand the subwoofer in my car got blasted right out of the box (on top of that it is overpowerd) , it was a long time ago I have never heard of "brake in" and the woofer is still working great, never distorted too.... Kicker lol but for the price is great

post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzuky View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

As loud as you want to, the initial stiffness of the suspension doesn't affect the speaker's ability to function.
Interesting I believe I have been told or read somewhere that it is not good to play speakers loud in the first 30-40 hours at least, on the other hand the subwoofer in my car got blasted right out of the box (on top of that it is overpowerd) , it was a long time ago I have never heard of "brake in" and the woofer is still working great, never distorted too.... Kicker lol but for the price is great

There are a lot myths in audio. The idea that speaker break-in affects the sound is one of them.

Here is a useful article on the subject:

Speaker Break In: Fact or Fiction? | Audioholics

You will want to click to continue reading the second page of the article.

Here are a couple of quotes from it:

From the foregoing analyses, it's reasonable to conclude that suspension compliance changes arising as a consequence of initial driver burn in has little effect on the performance of a loudspeaker system.

And:
Normal production unit-to-unit driver spec variances can affect final amplitude response of a system to a larger degree than that expected from normal pre- post-burn in driver suspension compliance changes.

Basically, if you are not COMMONLY hearing differences between different drivers of the exact same type, you are not hearing differences caused by "break-in" of speakers. And since people who claim to believe in break-in are not usually returning speakers because the right and left don't match perfectly, they are imagining that they hear a difference from break-in, which is likely caused by them getting used to the sound of the new speaker.
post #60 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post


There are a lot myths in audio. The idea that speaker break-in affects the sound is one of them.

Here is a useful article on the subject:

Speaker Break In: Fact or Fiction? | Audioholics

You will want to click to continue reading the second page of the article.

Here are a couple of quotes from it:
 
From the foregoing analyses, it's reasonable to conclude that suspension compliance changes arising as a consequence of initial driver burn in has little effect on the performance of a loudspeaker system.

And:
Normal production unit-to-unit driver spec variances can affect final amplitude response of a system to a larger degree than that expected from normal pre- post-burn in driver suspension compliance changes.

Basically, if you are not COMMONLY hearing differences between different drivers of the exact same type, you are not hearing differences caused by "break-in" of speakers. And since people who claim to believe in break-in are not usually returning speakers because the right and left don't match perfectly, they are imagining that they hear a difference from break-in, which is likely caused by them getting used to the sound of the new speaker.


Thank you I`ll read the article! And I see your point about... maybe I`m taking brake in too serious lol. Thank you again!

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