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Where is my (our) Kuro replacement? - Page 6

post #151 of 501
If Panasonic was so scared to death about LG or Samsung getting the patents then answer me this: Why? Did Panasonic know that Samsung or LG COULD have made a Kuro type display and made money on it?

If Samsung could do that then why couldn't Panasonic do that?

Is Panasonic ignorant?

For Panasonic to purchase the patents and not us them then the possibility of Samsung or LG being able to produce them means that Panasonic could ALSO have used them because Panasonic is not IGNORANT with LG or Samsung being intellectually superior!

Now if this is indeed the case then the only reason that Panasonic wouldn't USE the patents is because it thought that a possible Kuro killing plasma display would be good enough so that that it would render OLED dead--NOT because it would be superior to OLED but because it would be CLOSE ENOUGH so that a marginal improvement for OLED wouldn't be worth the money for the possible buying TV public!

In other words their plan is to HOSE everyone on astronomicaly priced OLED!

Years from now when the price of OLED DOESN'T fall to prices that are comparable to a ZT60 then everyone will know that the current gospel around here at AVS--that you can't make money on displays that cost as much as Pioneer Kuros is a plain LIE!

That's not to say that we won't see 4K LCD--we will--but it will suck for all the reasons that the majority of LCDs currently suck!

Will there be a Sharp elite type quality 4K LCD? Of course! But it will cost as much as OLED--in other words alot!

In the future there WILL be a high end line of displays--4K LCD and OLED--that WILL make money at prices comparable to the ones for past Pioneer Kuros.

And there will be lower priced sets for over 95% of the buying public!

When that happens just remember who told you so! Don 't believe the--it is impossible to produce Pioneer type quality sets because they're so expensive that no one will buy them yarn!

That is a lie!

People can buy a Honda Civic and they can buy a Rolls Royce!

They can buy transistor receivers and they can buy gold vacuum tube amplifiers. They can buy soundbars and they can buy $100,000 speakers.

Given all these facts isn't it just plain silly the AVS gospel around here that NO ONE would buy a Kuro type display at Kuro type prices.

That may be what the Video display industry puts out--don't be dumb enough to believe it!
Edited by Artwood - 2/2/13 at 5:09pm
post #152 of 501
It's not that no one will buy them, it's are there enough who will buy them to make it a profitable endeavor? Sharp is in really bad financial shape if you haven't noticed, only being held together by outside investors.
post #153 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

What I have noticed here in the display forums is many don't even own an audio system even many with a higher end display.

I still don't understand why many here ignore audio and never see most posters here in any other sub-forums. It's just puzzling to me that a website that supports home theater that so many of the video zealots reject an audio system all together.

No offense to anyone here but the Internet has become a following of drones and lambs who are unable to make their own decisions, are brainwashed and waiting for D-Nice to give them the green light to buy their next display (using him as an example only). Truly sad.

Oh and it happens in the audio sections too so you are not alone.

Maybe this is why audio and video is failing now. Follow the crowd to the land of cheap and land of buying $10k speakers or displays based on what others say without even a decent audition nor the ability to decide if something sucks or not or nervous that they just might love it. But others have said they must not love it and should wait.

Rick

I don't understand your point. Currently there are 963,268 posts in the "Plasma Flat Panel Displays" forum versus 1,198,423 posts in the "Speakers" forum so there is a lot of interest in audio as well as video devices.

Many A/V enthusiasts buy high-end speaker systems to compliment their BIG screen TVs if/when they can afford to.

(signed: an Aperion Audio 6T 7.1 speaker package owner w/a PRO150FD display, Pioneer AVR, PS3 & Verizon FiOS Ultimate TV package)
post #154 of 501
I see where you got those numbers but they don't represent what's inside the forums, each have many millions of posts. I'm not arguing your point just the numbers:)

Personally i see the need of good audio to go with the good video we have. I'm hearing about 5.1 systems going away in favor of soundbars, I guess J6P is looking for simple and clean in favor if good.
post #155 of 501
Quote:
"I can't buy an Elite cause it has a color issue" or "I can't buy a plasma now cause it's not a Kuro" it's blacks will suck compared to it. Yeah right....

Everybody is different. Just because you think current TV's look fine doesn't mean everyone else will.

And i don't think people are saying they can't buy a plasma, or LCD, because the picture is weak, they're saying there's nothing currently worth spending money on to upgrade from the kuro. In some aspects it would be a downgrade. Me myself, what would be the point of me buying a TV if the one i have is already reference? If you want a bigger size that's understandable, but i'm fine with my "small" 60" at 7' away until a true advancement in PQ comes out.

As for the rest of your post; i care about video and audio equally. When i'm done buying the audio upgrades i need (speakers sub etc) i would have spent more than what i bought my kuro for. So you shouldn't generalise like that. I honesty don't see how you can only care about one more than the other but it's not my life, taste and money so i have no right to judge. People have a problem worrying about how others live there lives.
post #156 of 501
When I go read Amazon reviews of displays I'm always surprised by how many people comment on the tv sound quality. Not scientific but noticeable
post #157 of 501
If they made a plasma with better quality than a Kuro and TERRIFIC sound quality would the universe end?
post #158 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

If they made a plasma with better quality than a Kuro and TERRIFIC sound quality would the universe end?

This sir is what they call mental masturbation
post #159 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Just to be crystal clear, I'm not angry about anything. I'm just unbelievably bored of Kuro owners, every thread posted by Kuro owners and nearly everything said by Kuro owners justifying every thread posted by Kuro owners. Unbelievably bored.

And, and before you again misinterpret what that means, you should be aware, this past weekend, I referenced the Kuro in an OLED discussion on AVS Forum. So it's not the Kuro I'm bored of, just Kuro owners and their endless prattling on about the Kuro.

Good day.

If you were truly bored, you couldn't be bothered to lift a finger to reply to pro-KURO owners.

Yours isn't the behavior of one who is bored.
post #160 of 501
+1
post #161 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

If you were truly bored, you couldn't be bothered to lift a finger to reply to pro-KURO owners.

Yours isn't the behavior of one who is bored.

It took you a week to come up with this zinger? It's hard to imagine a more content-free reply...
Quote:
Originally Posted by daujones View Post

+1

... and yet here it is.
post #162 of 501
I know my 151 gives me a pride of ownership that no tv has before it has ever matched. I'm sure the new Panasonics plasmas have some advantages to my 151 but they aren't built to the level that the Pioneer Elite panels were geared to. Not to mention no tv I've ever demoed or owned other then my 151 had good sound quality. At the end of the day its more then just performance, its owning something that makes you feel like you own something special. My 151 is the first tv I've owned that didn't bother me enough in any one area to make me think about upgrading. Is it perfect? Far from it, but in this game its more important to not have any major flaws then excel in a couple areas and be lacking in others.
post #163 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

If not 2014 then why did Panasonic buy the patents?

We've been asking that ever since they bought the patents.
post #164 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It took you a week to come up with this zinger? It's hard to imagine a more content-free reply...
... and yet here it is.

I had matters elsewhere that needed attending to. I hope that's ok with you.

And, mine is a valid observation, shared by others here at AVS.
post #165 of 501
Of course if hes bored of Kuro owners there is no better way to become unbored then to have a little fun with you guys and gals........from the looks of it, doesnt take much either.......


Honestly though, I would tend to side with rogo more in this case, but I understand why Kuro owners are the way they are (at least on this forum).......
post #166 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Of course if hes bored of Kuro owners there is no better way to become unbored then to have a little fun with you guys and gals........from the looks of it, doesnt take much either.......


Honestly though, I would tend to side with rogo more in this case, but I understand why Kuro owners are the way they are (at least on this forum).......

That makes no sense man and is trolling. What's wrong with you people? Seriously.

Kuro owners aren't anything but whatever imaginary BS people make them out to be.

Side with the crazy person all you want. Doesn't mean he's right. It's like you guys are flies attracted to an electric fly killer.
Edited by saprano - 2/6/13 at 10:46am
post #167 of 501
No one is "right" Kuro owners will ALWAYS believe they are right, and the owners\supports will always flock to agree, doesnt amke them anymore right.....In the end who cares, honestly I dont care enough..

As for the "whats wrong with "you people" and flies attraced to an eletric fly killer, I coulss say the same thing where a Kuro owner\suppoter steps in and say well not better then my\our Kuro so bah humbug and you and your electronics are inferior to my\our set.......

Ive said it before Ill say it again, I dont care either way, if there is a Kurao equivlent or something that beats it, oh well, then it will be jsut that group to step in the forusm and will be the new "cult"...*shrugs* my point was that people take it way to seriously and it was wway to easy for rogo to make a few valid arguments and personal statements to get the Kuro owners\supporters riled up, its not that serious....
post #168 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

I had matters elsewhere that needed attending to. I hope that's ok with you.

And, mine is a valid observation, shared by others here at AVS.

Irishman, I, of course, respect your need to attend to other matters. Sincerely.

The use of the "others" meme as a form of argument, however, I don't respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Of course if hes bored of Kuro owners there is no better way to become unbored then to have a little fun with you guys and gals........from the looks of it, doesnt take much either.......


Honestly though, I would tend to side with rogo more in this case, but I understand why Kuro owners are the way they are (at least on this forum).......

Hey, at least some "others" agree with me. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

That makes no sense man and is trolling. What's wrong with you people? Seriously.

Kuro owners aren't anything but whatever imaginary BS people make them out to be.

Side with the crazy person all you want. Doesn't mean he's right. It's like you guys are flies attracted to an electric fly killer.

One thing I'm not doing is trolling. Nor am I crazy. Nor am I conjuring "imaginary" things.

I'm calling it as I see it. People are reacting as they wish.

Again, the "you people" kind of memes are less interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

No one is "right" Kuro owners will ALWAYS believe they are right, and the owners\supports will always flock to agree, doesnt amke them anymore right.....In the end who cares, honestly I dont care enough..

As for the "whats wrong with "you people" and flies attraced to an eletric fly killer, I coulss say the same thing where a Kuro owner\suppoter steps in and say well not better then my\our Kuro so bah humbug and you and your electronics are inferior to my\our set.......

Ive said it before Ill say it again, I dont care either way, if there is a Kurao equivlent or something that beats it, oh well, then it will be jsut that group to step in the forusm and will be the new "cult"...*shrugs* my point was that people take it way to seriously and it was wway to easy for rogo to make a few valid arguments and personal statements to get the Kuro owners\supporters riled up, its not that serious....

Let's hope we don't get a new cult, but you're almost certainly right we will. I hope that cult is at least about something that is still for sale. smile.gif
post #169 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

No one is "right" Kuro owners will ALWAYS believe they are right, and the owners\supports will always flock to agree, doesnt amke them anymore right.....In the end who cares, honestly I dont care enough..

As for the "whats wrong with "you people" and flies attraced to an eletric fly killer, I coulss say the same thing where a Kuro owner\suppoter steps in and say well not better then my\our Kuro so bah humbug and you and your electronics are inferior to my\our set.......

Ive said it before Ill say it again, I dont care either way, if there is a Kurao equivlent or something that beats it, oh well, then it will be jsut that group to step in the forusm and will be the new "cult"...*shrugs* my point was that people take it way to seriously and it was wway to easy for rogo to make a few valid arguments and personal statements to get the Kuro owners\supporters riled up, its not that serious....
You don't care yet you still feel the need to intercede. wink.gif Those who still highly favor the PQ of the Kuro over the competition include some substantial videophiles, calibrators and other similar professionals, not just a cult of raving Kuro-owning lunatics.
post #170 of 501
What makes the Kuro image look so good, even when ambient lighting is brighter than the blacks of a Kuro?

As far as I'm aware, there are 5 elements to an image:

- Brightness
- Darkness
- Gamma
- Colour Rendering
- Image/artifact processing

According to reviews from calibrators, my 2010 Panasonic G20 has sufficient brightness, "almost spot-on gamma", "almost perfect colour rendering", and the blacks appear inky black when I've got room lights switched on. On paper, the gamma/colour rendering difference between the Kuro and my G20 is <5%. Yet the Kuro gamma/colour rendering looks drastically better than my G20. Why?
post #171 of 501
It's time to ignore the trolls in this thread. They have nothing better to do than come into kuro threads and annoy kuro owners. They can't just ignore something they don't like. The have to go out of their way and let us know how they feel about us talking about our beloved kuros.

If that's not insane I don't know what is. You guys and trolls have a wonderful day.
post #172 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

It's time to ignore the trolls in this thread. They have nothing better to do than come into kuro threads and annoy kuro owners. They can't just ignore something they don't like. The have to go out of their way and let us know how they feel about us talking about our beloved kuros.

If that's not insane I don't know what is. You guys and trolls have a wonderful day.

Not agreeing with someone doesn't make the other person a troll. I think it's funny that anyone thinks one side is acting any differently than the other. I'm sure this kind of talk has been going on for five or so years, but it seemed like the argument in this particular thread spilled over from a few different 2013 Panasonic/CES threads where people kept bringing up Kuros.
post #173 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

It's time to ignore the trolls in this thread. They have nothing better to do than come into kuro threads and annoy kuro owners. They can't just ignore something they don't like. The have to go out of their way and let us know how they feel about us talking about our beloved kuros.

If that's not insane I don't know what is. You guys and trolls have a wonderful day.

I'm not sure if that's aimed at me or not, but I can assure you I'm not "trolling". I'm genuinely interested in learning what characteristics of a Kuro make the image look so impressive to my eyes/brain.
post #174 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolowizard View Post

Not agreeing with someone doesn't make the other person a troll. I think it's funny that anyone thinks one side is acting any differently than the other. I'm sure this kind of talk has been going on for five or so years, but it seemed like the argument in this particular thread spilled over from a few different 2013 Panasonic/CES threads where people kept bringing up Kuros.

Agreed on all this. I would add that it spills over from hundreds of threads over 5 years (not just CES threads) that pointlessly reference the Kuro in the same way some jackass at a party makes a point of letting you know how difficult it was to park his Mercedes out front while you are discussing the Super Bowl. Anyway, you make excellent points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grexeo View Post

I'm not sure if that's aimed at me or not, but I can assure you I'm not "trolling". I'm genuinely interested in learning what characteristics of a Kuro make the image look so impressive to my eyes/brain.

Clearly you are not trolling. I think the answer to your question is that the sum total of a lot of positive image attributes add up to a pleasing image. There is also an "attribution bias" effect that may play a small role. You know the Kuro is really good, so you believe it's really good. Since intrinsically your belief is accurate, the reinforcing mechanism is that much more powerful.
post #175 of 501
Man, they'd better release new tv's soon or it could get really ugly around here. smile.gif
post #176 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by grexeo View Post

I'm not sure if that's aimed at me or not, but I can assure you I'm not "trolling". I'm genuinely interested in learning what characteristics of a Kuro make the image look so impressive to my eyes/brain.

My post clearly wasn't towards you.
post #177 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolowizard View Post

Not agreeing with someone doesn't make the other person a troll. I think it's funny that anyone thinks one side is acting any differently than the other. I'm sure this kind of talk has been going on for five or so years, but it seemed like the argument in this particular thread spilled over from a few different 2013 Panasonic/CES threads where people kept bringing up Kuros.

^^ This......The Kuro will always be brought up due to its performance and rave reviews, I think what people are looking for is a measured black level set that will match or go lower than the Kuro......Every year we see pots and speculation on if a TV will come close or beat it, every year we find for some reason the black level is not met......Some people have moved on and are happy, others have decided to wait so that when measured by tools they ahve a TV they can say beats out the Kuro as well as offer them something visualy that will be superior to thier current set.......

Of course the above post will probably be looked as a trolling post becasue I agree with rogo on certain things.....
post #178 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Every year we see pots and speculation on if a TV will come close or beat it, every year we find for some reason the black level is not met.....



But the relevant part is every year there has been improvements in TV PQ for the remaining plasma manufactures. The goal is to keep a balance on keeping the cost low enough to move the sets while offering quality something that Pioneer seemed to have failed at.

Seriously could anyone dream of getting the PQ of an 2012 Panny 55” ST set back in 2008 for under $1,500?
post #179 of 501
The Sharp has a lower MLL than the regular 9G's, 0.0005, I think, vs 0.001. But it's an LCD so it does nothing for me. It still looks like an LCD.

Panasonic needs to get down to those levels. Lower would be even better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te 
The Kuro will always be brought up due to its performance and rave reviews

Exactly!

And this is what certain people don't like which makes zero sense to me. Sorry for wanting PQ to continue to improve from a display that was made YEARS ago. That's why these threads keep on getting made. We care about PQ. If that comes off as "bragging" or "obnoxious" to some people that's really too bad. Don't enter kuro threads. Go cry somewhere else.
Edited by saprano - 2/7/13 at 10:38am
post #180 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleboyjones View Post

But the relevant part is every year there has been improvements in TV PQ for the remaining plasma manufactures. The goal is to keep a balance on keeping the cost low enough to move the sets while offering quality something that Pioneer seemed to have failed at.

Seriously could anyone dream of getting the PQ of an 2012 Panny 55” ST set back in 2008 for under $1,500?

Oh I agree, but that point is moot in this discussion thread and has been brought up before ;-)

As ar as a plasma getting to Kuro level, I think the community may have to come to the conclusion taht they may never seen one....With Plasma on its way "out" (just speculation) I dont think there is enough time or interest by the manufacturers to meet the level that is being asked for here...IMO they will start to push focus to newer technologies and LCD TVs....

You can always hope, but IMO there will always be some shortcomming listed, which will deter thosee holding on to thier Kuros....
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