Where is my (our) Kuro replacement? - Page 11

check out this You Tube video..........he says the ZT60 is at least as black as the KURO (based on direct comparison)...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdqYAgjEq7g.

He did say it..."as good as or better" in the black level department. If true this will rock the world of many Kuro owners. Many may end up on meds imo.

or a new display

I would not dispute the Kuro's (all hail Kuro) place in the PDP hall of fame, I just find it irksome the spewing of OPINION that something in the future.... ie. NOT RELEASED YET cannot be equal to or better than the Kuro (all hail Kuro). Basing that opinion on the BELIEF that an elaborate conspiracy was in place in order to fool people for a brief period of time. When the F8500 and ZT are released, it won't take very long to see if they do or do not compare to the Kuro (all hail Kuro). I am not saying which way or the other whether or not they will or won't, but I do accept the possibility. I give more credibility to the reviewer's (who does not profit from increased sales) opinion of what he saw IN PERSON, and appreciate that he even posted a photo (facts not opinions) of the settings used, especially in comparison to those who keep repeating (without having seen them personally) theories of conspiracy and sabotage based on their belief nothing anywhere, ever, could be better than their Kuro (all hail Kuro).

Blessed be thy Kuro,
Forever and Ever
Amen
Edited by pred1973 - 2/14/13 at 1:20pm

The spewing of opinion on something taht hasnt been released always happens on this forum.....I mean take a look at the screenshot warriors who will dispute how good a transfer is off of a screenshot without even having seen the disc.....Its all speculation and part of the game......It will all be he sid she said and that TV look darker in that picture but someone else say no sir I question the setup yadda yadda yadda

Does anyone actually think a mfg. who makes televisions would conduct a challenge that would make their own display look bad? Come on people, wake up! This is marketing at it's finest.

In the immortal words of Ellen Ripley, "Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPa5oVG-nII

I know some Kuro owners can be a pain in the ass but clearly some people have such a hatred towards a 4 or 5 year old tv that it seems to be clouding their judgement.

There is a light shining on the Pioneer, you can see it on the bezel. No speculation, it's plain to see. I'm not comparing black levels, color, greyscale, etc. etc. No conspiracy, i'm just curious how the ZT would look in place of the Kuro.

Oh, boy. It's getting hot in here.

I don't know how you use your kuros and what room you have them in, but in my room my 151 does not get hot. I don't know any other way to explain this. I called no one liars. The responses i got indicates i'm the one being called a liar. One last time; My kuro does......not......get......hot. Take that how you will.

And enough with calling kuro owners fanboys. You guys sound childish. Anytime a kuro owner, or someone talks positive, or backs up the kuro with facts, you people cry "fanboys". I don't remember any kuro owner saying thd TV is perfect or "can do no wrong". It's not perfect. No TV is.

It's your fault for interpreting it that way.

Link doesn't work.

Nevermind. I saw the comparison video in the panasonic thread.

This is why i question the comparison. The colors on the kuro and overall image are washed out. Greens and reds don't look like that on my 151. Check out the water drops on the plant at 2:24, wow what dull looking picture. That's the most obvious conclusion for me that there's something wrong. I have kuro demos and other manufacture demos of similar content with plants, objects etc. I can tell you right now that the 600 is set wrong. Greens and all kinds of colors are deep as realistic as can be. And no dull looking wash out. lol, come on guys.

Before i get called a kuro "fanboy" i'm not questioning the ZT60, i'm sure it's going to be a fine set, i only question how the kuro looks. Which is wrong.
Edited by saprano - 2/14/13 at 5:27pm

Don't know what happened. Try this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRLYeth_tfY&feature=youtu.be

I see what you are saying in the water drop scene. I really can't comment since I never saw a Kuro properly set up. Back in those days I was a DLP fan boy and didn't pay much attention to plasma. Silly me.

I agree that the Kuro isn't set up right. It's so obvious to anyone who's owned a Kuro. Something is wrong there so don't read too much into these side by sides.

Ah...yea. Just look at it. Then based on what we know of the Kuro, can anyone argue that something seems afoul? The black background portrayed on the other two TV's are ridicuously darker than the Kuro, which does not even look black, but washed out gray ! Geesh !

Geesh is a good word to start with.
Look at the obvious refection of the overhead lamp at the top of the Kuro bezel.
Why does Panasonic have to cheat in the first place, are they that low in confidence
going toe to toe with the five year old Kuro tech?

This is AVS right? You can clearly see the kuro is not set right. This isn't about pioneer vs panasonic or kuro owners being fanboys. I want panasonic to continue when pioneer left off. But lets be honest, that's no kuro.

Once again, go to 2:24 in the video. That KRP is out of wack. All the comparisons look washed out will dull colors but that part in the video set off my BS alarm. Especially compared to VT50.

Hmm...

Size?

3-D picture quality?

Ambient light rejection?

Oh, wait, none of those matter.

Me and Taylor Swift always watch in the dark and we never, ever, ever watch 3-D. 'Cause those glasses get in the way of our smooching. Just don't tell my wife.

Somebody doesn't know what PQ means. Every tv has surpassed the kuro in terms of features and definitely size. But what about pure PQ? Not saying those extra features don't matter, plenty of kuro owners sold their tv for bigger sizes and 3D, but some only care about PQ performance.

Maby if people would stop listening to Taylor swift they would understand the question better.

There's a lot more to PQ than just black levels and peak whites.

And the VT50 color? Sure it's accurate for that specific APL/size pattern they used. But the TV is not that accurate over all. Until someone can show a FULL 3d color chart you really can't say which has superior color overall. It's quite possible the VT50 tracks color really well for a small range of APL, but falls apart outside of that range. Also possible the Kuro tracks slightly worse, but it can maintain that tracking over a wider range of APL. Making it overall more accurate.

Kuro on top of having excellent contrast also had good video processing. Panasonic doesn't have it in the 2012 models.

Samsung on the other hand HAS slowly been improving their processing every year and is significantly ahead at this point. The processing in the top Samsung TV's is very good. Even better than what's in a HQV Vida and QDEO video processors from what I have seen. Although I have doubts that all of these AVR receivers know how to properly use the HQV Vida chip. So that might just be implementation issues.

Lets not forget Panasonic switched to an internally developed video processing chip in 2012 (might have been 2011). I assume for financial reasons, they are struggling. Saving $$ on the BOM can increase your bottom dollar.

So why does processing matter? When watching cable/iptv/satellite not every channel/show is perfectly aligned to match up to a TVs calibration set for targeting 16-234 (or 0-255) in HD709 color space and or a specific gamma. There's lots of things that can just be a little off. Good processing can detect these differences and help the image out (re-align it).

What I find to be a funny argument from some folks is. "You shouldn't need video processing". That's just not true, or perhaps they might not know how much processing is really going on. Look at it this way. What exactly sets apart an OPPO and a Daewoo BluRay player? They both read the same data off the disc. They both transfer it digitally right? So in theory they should look the same right? No. It's all about the video/audio processing the player applies: quality of the video codec, quality of audio codecs, audio/video muxing processing code, HDMI drivers... It's a pretty long list...

There's nothing purist about cable,satellite or IPTV video. The video is mangled... it's re-encoded from who knows what type of master and then sent back out compressed again. By the time you see the video it's on it's 2nd or 3rd generation of (lossy) compression. It's obvious that not everyone knows how to do it correctly/cleanly. Video processing really helps out with these small variances (or sometimes large depending on your provider).
Edited by SiGGy - 2/15/13 at 6:52am

^^^^^^

Uhm, I'm confused. I run cable, etc. through my Denon with the Anchor Bay processor. I run Blu-Ray and DVD through my OPPO with the same processor. It all looks excellent on the VT just as it did on my 111fd. Am I Missing something? Why would I care about the TV's processing unless I was to run sources directly to the TV? Which ain't never gonna happen with me.

Confused about what?

Am I right in thinking you believe that since you use an external video processor the point I was making is irrelevant?

I was discussing the TV's on their own, not their use with external video processors. My point eludes to how much Panasonic does or doesn't put into their TVs.
Edited by SiGGy - 2/15/13 at 8:19am

^^^^^^

Kind of same boat for me, I really don't watch much tv programming and when I do its OTA HD, so not the same compression issues as cable or satellite. 90 % of my viewing is Bluray movies through an Oppo, right now the BDP-105. So as far as I know, and I might be way off here, but don't think my tv has to do much processing.

Wow! Just Wow! You edited your post after the fact from what I have quoted above to this -

"Confused about what?

Am I right in thinking you believe that since you use an external video processor the point I was making is irrelevant?

I was discussing the TV's on their own, not their use with external video processors. My point eludes to how much Panasonic does or doesn't put into their TVs.
Edited by SiGGy - Today at 8:19 am"

I have never seen anyone edit a post from good natured to aggressive like that. Wow! That's like passive/aggressive type shite.

BTW, I was genuinely confused as I have seen others complain about the processing but now I see I was laboring under an assumption that anyone spending 3k plus on a TV would have a system in place to manage that weakness.

Best to you.
Edited by Glashub - 2/15/13 at 8:38am

Good post, Siggy.

It should be very interesting. Samsung was very close to Panasonic, overall, in 2012. Now have built a new plasma from ground up!

Please identify a currently released 50" - 60" PDP that in your opinion ranks number one regarding its "overall" performance.

"The 3D gimmick has sadly infiltrated movies and television and is now threatening to infect video games and smartphones as well. There’s only one reason why the entertainment industry keeps relentlessly pushing this at consumers — it’s a transparent attempt to bleed more money out of people. And, while a lot of consumers have caught on to the scam, not everyone is doing enough to stop it.

3D is definitely NOT about innovation, as the industry would like you to believe. In fact, adding the current 3D effects to a movie or video of any kind subtracts from the picture. It muddies the colors and unsharpens the images, and it has to slow down the action shots because it makes people sick if things go too fast in 3D. In fact, optometrists estimate that up to 25% of people get headaches or nausea from simply watching 3D at all."

It's a YouTube video, lol.

We get it, nothing is better than your Kuro. And you hate 3D. I found Prometheus in 3D was actually more enjoyable than in 2D, so was Tron. Rare examples but they do exist. I didn't like Avatar as a movie, but again found the 3D made it visually more appealing.

As for 3D driving up prices, I would disagree, when you track the price of plasma tv's over the last few years, I have seen no increase in price, rather a slow but steady decrease in pricing. I would not have paid a penny more for a 3D tv, but it was a feature that was built into the 55GT50 I purchased (which was cheaper than the non 3D 50G10 it replaced). IF the new ZT is comparable to the Kuro, it will be about 30% less expensive than the Kuro was ( I'm in Canada, price for last gen Kuro was about $7,500 vs close to $5,000 for my pre-ordered 65" ZT) and it will include features that the Kuro did not while still being significantly cheaper. Hard to see where it drove prices up, the ST's are 3D, have excellent PQ, FOR THE PRICE and are very affordable for most.
Edited by pred1973 - 2/15/13 at 10:29am

"Hate" is such a strong word and I don't believe I ever said I "hated" 3DTV. However, IMO 3D is more of a gimmick rather than some must have feature and will not compel me to shell out another $6000 for a new PDP.

What I am looking for is to have rogo weigh in with his honest opinion regarding what 50" - 60" PDP, currently released, provides the best "overall" performance instead of peppering this thread with snide remarks about Taylor Swift.

Is that too much to ask?

Fair enough, I apologize if I overstated your feelings on the matter. I agree on it being more a gimmick than a must have feature, and like I said, I would not spend even a penny more to have it, but in certain rare instances it CAN add something to the movie viewing experience.