Where is my (our) Kuro replacement? - Page 12

lol.. It's painfully obvious the Kuro wasn't adjusted properly in that comparison, but I guess it shouldn't be a big surprise given the circumstances.

I'm Sorry.

That wasn't at all intentional. I meant to to say something different. I got a call at work and moved on too quickly before I could finish what it was I wanted to say.



I was trying to say you had a nice receiver, but I somehow left out that entire thought process when I edited. Usually I only grammar/spell check when I edit.
Edited by SiGGy - 2/15/13 at 11:19am

If you have made your mind up because of a few lame images then great - as long as your happy. Your desperation for all this to come true is there to see. You have convinced yourself "therefore it's true". I wish i had your crystal ball of hope dude.

Is it so hugely important to you that it beats the Kuro. Although in all reality it probably won't. Why not just buy the ZT or look forward to buying it without the desperation of it "winning" against a tv/display manufacturer that shut up shop many moons ago. If i didn't own a krp500 with it all round prowess i would be utterly delighted that a tv is coming out that sounds good. That was cheaper than the 60" Kuro back in the day there.

I will simply say that I allow for the possibility of the ZT being equal to the Kuro. Nothing more nothing less. Its really irrelevant whether it does or doesn't. I do feel pretty strongly that constantly coming up with claims of sabotage and conspiracy in order to further your point of view adds nothing to the discussion, and makes having an honest, realistic discourse near impossible. I consider myself to be a person who values logic and reason, and though I applaud and appreciate passionate and even heated debate, I think it should be based on logic and facts. If you have any kind of actual evidence supporting your claims of conspiracy and sabotage, I have already said, I will apologize, but you haven't.

I have no allegiance to any brand, Having had in the last 6 years a Hitachi Directors Series, a Panny G10 as well as a GT50, recently bought and returned a Sharp 80" Quattro, ordered and cancelled on an Elite 70" and recently purchased a Samsung 75ES9000 which has failed to live up to my expectations. No desperation on my part at all. I think our difference boils down to one of us allowing for the possibility that the ZT could be equal or better than the Kuro, and the other steadfastly refusing to accept that as a possible reality. The person who posted the review that has caused this debate between us has posted several times trying to explain any inconsistency between people's recollections of how their Kuro looks and the images he posted, going so far as to specifically point out that the Kuro in the photo's was under less favorable lighting, and making a clear point of stating that in person the Kuro looked great and that the ZT was comparable. I would ask why you feel so strongly that this is not possible ? I have zero vested interest in the outcome. The Sharp 80" was returned, I cancelled on the Elite 70", the 75ES9000 is going back, I do have a ZT on pre-order but if it fails to live up to my expectations, it will find its way back from whence it came. The tv is just a tv, and does not signify a single thing about me, our ability to have rational discussion says much more about us than any tv.

I don't think anyone cares who beats who. The kuro looking like a pile of dog crap is what caused this whole debate.

Panasonic beating the kuro is not the end of the world. Everyone welcomes it. It needs to happen. Who wants PQ to stand still?

That's not the issue. The issue is the kuro.

No worries SiGGy.

Legitimate question.... Would the AR filter make that much of a difference under bright overhead lighting ? My buddies who have/had Kuro's always had them in dedicated rooms, so I have never seen one under glaring overhead lights, and my understanding is that the new "louvre" filter is supposed to be quite good if half the hype is to be believed.

Again.

I never actually said they were anything was fake (that i can remember in so many words) - for reasons (defensive) it has been percieved that way. All i ever said that in (reality) Kuro's don't tend to look like that. Look anywhere you wish to look. Review images, picture thread images - anywhere you damned well like.

Don't get too excited about the ZT's filter (as good as it is). I have seen a long video, and it reflects like nobody's business.

It’ll be a sad day for videophiles if the Z60 falls short. On the other hand there might be a cottage industry in customizing coffins to fit Kuros since most Kuro owners will want to take their blessed display with them into the afterlife. Of course Heaven would look better viewed through a Kuro.

When i turn on my room light my kuro stays dark. Even during the day. The blacks become pitch black. Only when i open all my shades at let massive amounts of light in does it turn gray. But nobody watches movies like that.

The issue is more with the dark room comparisons. Not the one with the overhead light directly shining on the kuro. I guess that gray look will happen with a strong bright light.

Have you seen the video? You don't see anything wrong about the kuro?

I have kind of a different take on it, personally I think the color looks pretty over-saturated on the Panasonic. Looks good, but un-natural. Apparently the Kuro was one of the engineer's personal tv, and is/was calibrated at some point (would believe it was calibrated for his home and not believe it was for the environment they were showing it in), and honestly I think that if it weren't for the ZT next to it, it does have the look of a low ft/l calibrated image. Kind of like looking at a tv in dynamic mode next to a properly calibrated one, the calibrated one is going to look dim and less vibrant, but is actually more "correct". I have no difficulty believing that the ZT was not calibrated and was set maybe not in torch mode, but with increased color or contrast settings. From the screenshot of the settings used the Kuro did not have brightness or contrast set at levels that would make one jump to the conclusion that they were responsible for a washed out image.
Edited by pred1973 - 2/15/13 at 3:36pm

I get what you're saying and agree the panasonic was probably on vivid mode. That would actually have an effect on the richness of the color and perceived blacks. I don't agree it's because of the ZT that it makes the kuros more correct image stand out more. A calibrated image shouldn't be dull and washed out. Neither should standards settings.

This is what a kuro looks like. Perfectly deep colors and dark blacks. No washout. No dull colors.

Pure mode.












Go to the kuro pictures thread to see more examples of what a kuro looks like. That panasonic comparison ain't it.

GORGEOUS pictures ! I will be very pleased if the ZT looks like that post cal. If not, it too will go back and I will take another kick at the can LOL Have to say, a bit envious that you have been to able to enjoy that PQ for the last 5 years.

@saprano

Stunning images.

And "only" in Pure mode. Which in all truth, is only about 1% better than "Movie mode" as an untouched preset confusingly.

Frighteningly good images though, thanks

:edit: ^^ Panasonic fanboys ^^ look up at these images and weep. Dream on i say. I'm kidding of course - but couldn't resist lol.
Edited by Stu03 - 2/16/13 at 10:40am

First time to post and with just cause: Stunning pictures ! I can honestly say that my st50 does not look that good. Thanks for sharing.

One of the better pics I managed to take from my 8G Kuro 5080 (Purchased in 2007)



It recently passed the 20k hour mark and haven't had any problems with it (cellphone pic here):

Stunning! 8g...

Thanks for sharing

Want to see some beautiful Kuro screen shots? Check out the screen shots by Urga on the Official Pioneer Kuro Picture Thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/920011/official-pioneer-kuro-pictures-thread/5700_50
Edited by TWD - 2/17/13 at 6:14am

Nice "panasonic"
Dream on, envy? ...i don't think so.

Saprano, What is the source for the pictures above? I would like to see how they look on my VT50. I'm looking for some good demo material. Thanks.

Duplicate post - Sorry
Edited by TWD - 2/19/13 at 9:55am

I'm not saprano but that's Planet Earth from BBC Blu ray...the scene it's from Disc 3 chapter "Jungle"

@Stu03 the one and only fanboy that i read in this thread is you...and not only in this forum...
Edited by agkss - 2/17/13 at 1:09pm

Here's where the rubber hits the road. There is a brand new, still in the box, Sig. 141 for sale on eBay for $6600 as-is. Who is willing to pay that amount to own it? The ZT will probably be $4200. $2400 surcharge for the Kuro.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-Kuro-Signature-Elite-Signature-PRO-141FD-60-1080p-HD-Plasma-/200897493785?pt=Televisions&hash=item2ec66c7b19
Edited by Glashub - 2/17/13 at 4:25pm

It will be interesting to see how long it takes to sell, I would guess it doesn't go on bids, but someone jumps on the BIN price.....

Truth be told, Pred, I'm tempted. But I just can't get over the fact that it's $2400 more than the 65ZT60 and I don't know what one would do if it broke. I like good value for my money. Not sure the Kuro is a $2400 better tv than the ZT and a $4300 better TV than the VT. Question though is how does one keep a Kuro new in the box for 4 years?

LOL, well I wouldn't know that he won't ship it to Canada if I didn't go through the effort of seeing how much it would have been.

and I would insure the heck out of it before it shipped
Edited by pred1973 - 2/17/13 at 4:37pm

I dunno, thats a lot of dough to burn with the Panny options out there unless the money really doesn't matter. You can get ZT with a big extended warranty for a lot cheaper. I usually find in situations like this its basically a obsessive type purchase in your head and the easiest way to get out of it is think of what you can buy with the money saved. I mean you can have a brand new 27" iMac for the money you would save or a projector....whatever.

But that said it could be a very legit deal and the guy is a AV junkie(maybe upper middle class). He bought the Kuro when they were getting rid of them at a discount, stored it as a backup/investment because he already owns a Kuro and is now getting rid of it because the ZTs are coming out and he wants to see if he can actually get 6 grand for it(If not he might actually use it himself like he says). Makes sense, the longer time goes the worst its going to be on Kuro resales as long as Panasonic and Samsung continue to improve.

Hehe, hey the ST's are the bang for the buck of the series.

That's a lot of coin to drop, unless you just have money to burn. I would go Zt60 and save some money for sure.