Where is my (our) Kuro replacement? - Page 14

Is this old news to the Forum?

Panasonic shuts PDP TV factory

Why spend $1000s to buy another PDP now versus waiting for OLED prices to decline to a similar price point?

You know us well, it's completely old news and we've summed it up as having nothing to do with the demise of plasma.

Because the only available OLED is $12,000 for a 55", and I doubt the ability to produce sets will satisfy mainstream demand anytime soon, meaning the premium will remain high for the foreseeable future. Just consider how many CES shows have had prototype OLED's, and look at where we are at now without any of them except one actually making it to the sales-floor. Personally I think that it is far more likely that 4K gets market penetration before OLED. Known technology with improved resolution in 4k sets makes more sense from a manufacturing point of view. I am not sure what possibility there is at this point to get the manufacturing process improved enough for the denser pixel count of 4k for OLED's. The other thing, and this is just opinion, but the long-term quality of OLED has not been proven yet. There hasn't been a set on the market long enough to see how they look over the long term. I don't claim to be up-to-date on the latest developments, but in the beginning was there not concerns with OLED having a shorter half-life compared to other technologies ? I'm sure others more knowledgeable than myself will cheerfully correct me

I got a reply from the fellow selling the brand new Sig 141 for $6600 on eBay:

"It has been stored in a dark, dry space (warehouse) I had plans of using it in my house but never got around to it. Like the ads states I will enjoy it for myself if I can't sell it but for now it is up for grabs. I work in the industry and have since the late 80s. - 92gvr4"

Are you thinking about buying it?

What about all the OLED phones? And for that matter, AMOLED, Super AMOLED, Super AMOLED+ and Super AMOLED++ (coming soon). I had a windows 7 phone for years now with an AMOLED screen (best black levels I've ever seen, which is to say it matched the Kuro in a dark room, bettered it in very bright areas). Wouldn't those be considered "tested" by now via phones in a pseudo osmosis kind of way? Or are they completely different technologies?

Heh, so I was pretty close. He bought it at a really good discount, stored it with the knowledge that Kuro's would hold their value for a while and is now trying to unload it for a profit before the ZT comes out.

If anyone is interested I am about to list my Pioneer Elite 151. Unit was peoperly broken in at time of purchase and was calibrated by D-Nice. Pickup only at 17202.

I thought about it but then let it go. Too much could go wrong. What if it showed up with a dead pixel? Does it have a warranty? What if it's DOA? It's sold as-is. It is a 9G and it looks like the ZT might match that. The ZT at about $4200 is looking like a deal. Or I'll stay with my VT and save the $4300 difference for a trip to Tahiti.

Yes, you were.

All that is your interpretation of why he did it. You're a funny guy.

Anyway. I would by it if it was 2K or less. I also want a 101 and another 151.

And yes, you have measured them all over the course of their lifespan and can say that there has been absolutely no degradation of color accuracy or any other change over time ? As phones have the exactly the same lifespan as tv's and spend as many hours as an active display. Like I said in my post, I make no claim as to where the technology is now, but if it was so perfect and easy to produce, we wouldn't see prototypes for the last 4 CES's at least with only one tv making it to market. Like I also said, an expert will be along shortly to cheerfully correct me.

Not being snarky, its meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
Edited by pred1973 - 2/18/13 at 5:06pm

Well one doesn't need to be a genius to figure out why someone in the AV industry would sit on a Kuro for years and then just happens to try and sell it an extremely high price right after the ZT gets announced.

OLED is relatively easy to manufacture in small screen sizes (around 4-5 inches) but so far has proven very difficult to scale up to screen sizes that people would really want for a TV. Making large displays requires different plants, fabrication methods, etc.

This thread reminded me how lucky I was to be able to secure a 9G. It's still gorgeous, and I'll keep it until one of us dies.

I can only imagine how delighted FW-900 owners are with themselves!

People spending $6k on a kuro are insane! You could get 2 65vt50's and have $1k left, and wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Idiots!
Edited by yamvmax - 2/19/13 at 8:56am

"Why do we so often insist on comparing a set under review to an HDTV you can no longer buy? Because in the three years since the Pioneer Kuro departed the HDTV scene, there has not yet been another set that can equal or better it in all respects, most particularly in black level. Bringing that up may frustrate the reader, though it reminds manufacturers that they still have a way to go."

Really ?

No offence man, but that is the most delusional Panasonic fanboy delusional comment that i have ever had the misfortune of reading.

And believe me i have read a few !!!.

Didn't you know that (all) Kuro's (were) sold at a large loss.

Yes...REALLY! I'm NOT a Panasonic fanboy..I currently own a Samsung....which REPLACED a kuro. Dnice himself stated the vt50 is an acceptable replacement to his kuro if it failed. Sorry, but kuro FANBOYS might be the worst fanboys i have ever seen for a product.

Stu03

I think he's referring to this new in the box Sig 141 for sale for $6600, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-Kuro-Signature-Elite-Signature-PRO-141FD-60-1080p-HD-Plasma-/200897493785?pt=Televisions&hash=item2ec66c7b19.

I've owned 2 Kuros. Loved the 9g but needed a bigger TV. Went shopping for a Kuro and soon discovered that most Kuro owners selling their TV's 4 years later are trying to recoup 80%-100% of their initial investment. No way for a business man like me to justify paying $3500 for a used, no longer manufactured TV, no matter how good it is. And truth be told it's just not that much better than the 65VT50 I paid $2300 for.

Wish I would've popped for a 151fd but they weren't being discounted that much when I went to buy in 2008 and there was a pretty big gap in pricing between the 111fd and the 141fd.
Edited by Glashub - 2/19/13 at 9:39am

Yeah well it's a top quality display with components of a very high grade/level, not to mention the best built panel in the biz alongside all Pioneers.

And it's reputation speaks for itself.

I have traced a new 500M replacing a 500A that is being sold. Sitting at an average distance of 5 and a half feet, size isn't a concern at the end of a bed. I kid you not, i wouldn't swap it for anything new of (any) size.

Thought i would post a couple of images of my 500A just before it's sold on as an example of the panel showing black with normal (overhead lighting.)

And just a couple of others on untweaked Movie mode, Gamma 3 brightness at +4, just standard SD images.

Well spending 6 grand on a TV from a guy on eBay without a warranty isn't exactly a smart move considering the options that are out now and that are coming out in a few months. If you're making 6 grand a day it might not be a big deal, but if you're making closer to 6 grand a month then it is a giant deal.

Stu03, doth protesth too much. You win. I hope they let you take it with you.

Options?.

The quality and reliability is undeniable. And if the guy could somehow access the servive menu and double check that the two inbuilt hour meters are a match - then he is on to a winner.

RE: this new in the box Sig 141 for sale for $6600, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-Kuro-Signature-Elite-Signature-PRO-141FD-60-1080p-HD-Plasma-/200897493785?pt=Televisions&hash=item2ec66c7b19.

Spoke with Pioneer support...no warranty, all parts must be paid for out of pocket, and replacement panel = $3500.00

Haha, I loved how you attached that link to the unboxing. Couldn't resists watching. That's quite a beauty, but the bezel is pretty thick against today's plasmas but I would take it if I would could afford it.

Home Theater Magazine just published an article about the Kuro I believe yesterday.

"The Pioneer Kuro plasma display broke new ground upon its introduction in 2007 and was quickly hailed by critics and buyers as The Greatest Television Ever Made. Incredibly, as many Home Theater readers know, the Kuro line was phased out by 2010—which proves that just because you make the best, doesn’t mean people will buy it. Manufacturers regularly pay lip service to excellence, but Pioneer delivered—and the market didn’t reward them with sustainable sales numbers.
I spoke with Josh Kairoff, then Pioneer USA’s director of display engineering, to learn more about what made the Kuro so special. First things first, “Kuro” means “black” in Japanese, and the display’s inky blacks—the blackest blacks—were unmatched in the industry. The deeper blacks also yielded superior shadow detail and resolution. While most manufacturers were hell-bent on making the brightest possible displays, Pioneer took the opposite path with Kuro. Originally conceived as a broadcast monitor, Kairoff thinks the Kuro’s image quality was on par with Sony’s $25k professional monitors. The Kuro line was initiated by Pioneer USA, not in Japan, and the Kuro engineering team was drawn from Pioneer’s professional division.

What really made the Kuro different was that the optical filter was directly bonded to the plasma elements instead of the display’s glass, which is the way every other plasma display was made. Kairoff describes the design approach as “akin to putting Carl Zeiss lenses on your camera.” That design innovation required additional engineering time to perfect, which made the Kuro more expensive to manufacture than other plasmas. The engineers were unable to devise cost saving measures that wouldn’t compromise performance. Pioneer’s exit from the TV market wasn’t the end of the Kuro. Panasonic purchased most of the associated patents and technology and lured a significant segment of the Kuro engineering staff."

From the description of the Panasonic ZT60, it really sounds awfully close to the construction of the Kuros. To wit: "This plasma offers what Panasonic calls "Beyond the Reference" level of picture quality. It has the Studio Master Panel to produce “Ultimate” black color, contrast and crisp image edges. The new Studio Master Panel has been developed by a craftsmanship application technique when applying the outer front glass directly to the plasma panel, thus eliminating any gaps which cause picture interference"
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Yes Panasonic has some excellent performing plasma's on the market and more coming out soon. I think I'd at least wait for the ZT reviews.



It’s a $6000 TV sitting in storage for 3 years without a warranty that still needs to be shipped to your home.

Yep, and I would insure the heck out of it, insure the purchase price PLUS the shipping, that way even if it arrived DOA the insurance would cover the repair. Plus I'd want some kind of proof of life before it actually shipped, I would figure as I bought it, I want to know it worked before being shipped in order to cover my butt if an insurance claim was necessary.