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Denon 2313 or Pioneer SC-1222?

post #1 of 10
1/20/13 at 8:26pm
Thread Starter 
Hi Guys I have been researching for a new receiver for over a month. I just missed out on the Onkyo 809 Amazon deal (I had it in my cart and was researching 3rd party warrantees when the price jumped from 450 to 800... :eek:Doh!)... and have been looking for the next best thing.

After reading the forums here it seems that the Audyssey (XT and XT32) are viewed highly so I zeroed in on the Denon 2313. The other one that I was looking at was the Pioneer 1222, with its class D amps. The Onkyo 818 is too expensive so I have not considered it. So my delema is that I can get the 2313 for $599 locally and Newegg has the 1222 on sale for $550, both in my $600 budget.

2313 Pros:, 3 year waranty, Audyssey xt (sub eq), good GUI/OSD, well known with good reviews
2313 Cons: sound quality, video quality?

1222 Pros: Class D amp, better connectivity, some say better sound quality, more flexibity to customize sound settings, video quality
1222 Cons: bad GUI/OSD, 2 year warranty, not that well know/reviewed

Which would you pick?
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post #2 of 10
1/20/13 at 9:31pm
I pick 1222. I own a denon 3311 which has audessey xt and bought the 1222 2 weeks ago. And the pioneer is superb. I love it more than my 3311. Audio is so clear, so detailed. Dont be scared that mcacc does not eq the sub and audessey xt does. You can manually add filters to the sub. I can say tweaking with this receiver is endless. My sub got a new life with this pioneer;. Also even that 3311 and 1222 has same power of 125w per ch, the 1222 is more powerful.

I have to bear myself this receiver. Many people are in favor of audessey. I have to say I was one of them. Not now. Advanced is so powerfull the only thing is that probably you have to do some tweaks. But its worthy. I own onkyos in the past and marantz and yamahas too. I stick with Pioneer with d3 amps anytime.

You can also create your own application with custom setup buttons to conteol the avr. There is also an awesome app for iphone, ipad and andriod to control almost everything from your avr.
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post #3 of 10
1/21/13 at 3:56am
Prior to using Audyssey, be sure to familiarize yourself with the Audyssey 101/FAQ Guide linked in my sig which summarizes the most often asked setup questions in the Official Audyssey thread. Most likely some folks who do not have a favorable opinion of Audyssey simply have not set it up correctly ....eg. placing the Audyssey mic on a bunch of boxes or pillows rather than using a camera tripod or better yet a mic boom stand. Note also that MCACC in the 1222 cannot EQ the sub (IIRC EQ only goes down to about 65Hz) while the Audyssey XT in the 2313CI can EQ the sub frequencies.
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post #4 of 10
1/21/13 at 9:14am
Hi jd. What you said is true. Most people dont know how to setup audessey correclty. Im not on that list wink.gif.
I use a tripod when calibrating and ran audessey xt in all 8 points. I understand all feautres of my denon 3311 in which is a great receiver by the way.

Advanced mcacc does not eq sub but has something called "Standing Wave" so you can add filters specifically to the sub. The eq goes down to 63hz. I believe most if not all Pioneer owners wish that pioneer adds 24hz and 40hz to the eq band. There are rumors that Pioneer will add sub eq and two more bands on the band eq. About xover for each speaker is a no no for Pioneer. They will never do that.

Jd; I would like you to try any of this D3 Pioneers Avrs on your setup. You wont be dissapointed. My sub was bit boomy on audessey. Not anymore with mcacc. Its solid, tight when I want and deep. maybe your avr has audessey xt32. I want to try one receiver with xt32 sometime; so far I cant discard audessey until I test xt32. But right now advanced mcacc is awesome and will keep the 1222 on my ht room and my 3311 on my living room.
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post #5 of 10
1/21/13 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by javygonx View Post

Hi jd. What you said is true. Most people dont know how to setup audessey correclty. Im not on that list wink.gif.
I use a tripod when calibrating and ran audessey xt in all 8 points. I understand all feautres of my denon 3311 in which is a great receiver by the way.

Advanced mcacc does not eq sub but has something called "Standing Wave" so you can add filters specifically to the sub. The eq goes down to 63hz. I believe most if not all Pioneer owners wish that pioneer adds 24hz and 40hz to the eq band. There are rumors that Pioneer will add sub eq and two more bands on the band eq. About xover for each speaker is a no no for Pioneer. They will never do that.

Jd; I would like you to try any of this D3 Pioneers Avrs on your setup. You wont be dissapointed. My sub was bit boomy on audessey. Not anymore with mcacc. Its solid, tight when I want and deep. maybe your avr has audessey xt32. I want to try one receiver with xt32 sometime; so far I cant discard audessey until I test xt32. But right now advanced mcacc is awesome and will keep the 1222 on my ht room and my 3311 on my living room.

I noticed you said your sub was boomy with Audyssey so I thought I would chime in. I tried out a Pio SC-65 (sounded great) but I wasn't impressed overly impressed with the bass and more importantly I missed having Dynamic EQ/Volume. I then bought a Denon 3313 to compare and I would say the bass is much smoother (no boominess). However, when I first ran Audyssey it set my sub to -12 which indicates that the sub volume is too high! (because it is the maximum trim adjustment the receiver can make). I had to turn the dial back all the way to 3 o'clock to get a -9 reading. Is it possible you had your sub volume turned up too high (i.e. Audyssey set it at the max value of -12) and the AVR was unable to dial back your sub level enough? I ask as that would explain the boominess.
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post #6 of 10
1/21/13 at 10:10pm
Hi Evt. I tried that too. First time I ran audessey it sets sub to -12. After reading threads by that time I did exactly what your are saying. I lowered the sub at 8 o clock and ran audessey again. Got much better sub bass. After cmparing it to my 1222 it still boomy; not as before anyways.

At first on my pioneer I was dissapointed with the bass; but after reading and mastering mcacc the bass is awesome. Have you tried tweaking the "Standing Wave"? Did you tried subwoofer setting at plus?, tried small/large? Did you increased 2 or 3 dbs on 63hz and 125 hz? Such things helps me greatly and I can say is the best sub/bass I ever heard in my life comes from the 1222. If you still have the sc-65 then give it a try on those things after running mcacc cal. Setup the 20ms-40ms timeframe and use "all ch adj" instead of symmetry.
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post #7 of 10
1/22/13 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by javygonx View Post

Hi Evt. I tried that too. First time I ran audessey it sets sub to -12. After reading threads by that time I did exactly what your are saying. I lowered the sub at 8 o clock and ran audessey again. Got much better sub bass. After cmparing it to my 1222 it still boomy; not as before anyways.

At first on my pioneer I was dissapointed with the bass; but after reading and mastering mcacc the bass is awesome. Have you tried tweaking the "Standing Wave"? Did you tried subwoofer setting at plus?, tried small/large? Did you increased 2 or 3 dbs on 63hz and 125 hz? Such things helps me greatly and I can say is the best sub/bass I ever heard in my life comes from the 1222. If you still have the sc-65 then give it a try on those things after running mcacc cal. Setup the 20ms-40ms timeframe and use "all ch adj" instead of symmetry.

I admit I didn't play around with a lot of the manual tweaks and I already returned the SC-65. I really liked the overall SQ but the lack of SubEQ and Dynamic Volume - an essential feature for someone like myself with 3 young kids sealed its fate. Also, to be honest with you, I just wasn't interested in keeping an AVR where I have to manually experiment to get ideal sub output. The way I see the Pio AVRs is you need to invest in a sub with EQ or tools to EQ your sub to make it comparable. When you factor those costs in the Pio AVRs no longer look like such a good deal.

Given how many low cost AVRs are out there that can properly setup your sub I see no reason to go without this very important feature. Having said that, if Pioneer enhances MCACC to include SubEQ and if they were to add Dolby Volume I would definitely consider one of their AVRs in the future.
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post #8 of 10
4/5/13 at 12:22pm
Hey OP, which way did you end up going? I'm torn on these two receivers as well and have researched them both.
I want it for a dedicated home theater with in-wall speakers and Epson 135in projection screen, music is a different room and nicer speakers. My in-walls are rated at 120w each, so they aren't wimpy. I'm currently using an Onkyo tx-nr509, but it's too under-powered and only 5.1.

Sorry for reviving an old thread, but these 2 receivers are specifically what I'm looking at and I just can't decide.
Denon 2313 for $529 (refurb) or Pioneer sc1222 for $499 (newegg).
Thanks! Any input helps!
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post #9 of 10
4/5/13 at 1:21pm
I will go for Costco deal of Pioneer SC-1522 for $599.
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post #10 of 10
4/21/13 at 7:26am
one question. with the ac-1222 can you play a video source such as satellite and listen to an audio source such as pandora simultaneously?
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