Paradigm UltraCube 12 or DSP-3200

I've read comments from owners of the DSP-series subs who have been unimpressed with their flabby sound and lack of output and extension. I'd take the UltraCube over the 3200. But in a basement HT space the size of yours, I'd actually take two.

FYI only (since I know you're intent on getting a Paradigm sub): Dual SVS PB-1000s are currently selling for $949, shipped. They will provide plenty of output in your space, dig deeper than the UltraCube, and deliver a smoother FR at the listening position (vs. a single sub).

It's only a good deal if you are going to be happy with the purchase.... Listen to these threads about the ID manufactures. I have owned 6 or 7 high end subs from local stores before ending up with a sub from a recommended ID manufacture and I can tell you that it would have saved me a ton of money to just buy the best sub I can afford once and be done with it. Tell them to make you a package deal with the speakers only and you will supply the subwoofer. Just my 2 cents on the subject.

SVS has an excellent reputation for its subs - which are proven performers - and its customer service. SVS subs represent a better value ("bang for buck") than do Paradigm (and most other "regular retail") subs.

SBA is the only place you can purchase them from in Canada, as they are SVS' sole Canadian distributor. The fact that you live near them and can save the shipping is definitely a bonus.

Your room is ~3,000 cu.ft. I had a single BASH-equipped PB12-NSD in my ~3,375 cu.ft. basement HT space and I felt I could use a second one. Based on that - and on briefly having my PB10-NSD in my basement HT space - I would say that dual PB-1000s would be a better choice than a single PB12-NSD.

But not as good a choice as dual PB12-NSDs.
Edited by eljaycanuck - 1/21/13 at 12:20pm

I have an ultracube 10 and a dsp-3200 and the PBK kit.
To my ears the ultracube is a far better sub.

However,..... You really should listen to the people talking
About ID subs. They are correct! I have one ID sub (rythmik)
And it puts both Paradigm subs to shame...in spades.

I also agree about about checking into SVS subs, in particular
The new sb/pb 1000 series. You could get TWO for what you
Might pay for the ultracube.

According to the SVS site the PB-1000 will go from 19 - 270Hz + / - 3db. The PB12-NSD will go from 18 - 150Hz + / - 3db.

My work here is done.
As a very general rule, yes. But good design and sufficient power can compensate for a smaller driver.
The PB-1000 is spec'd to play almost as low as the PB12, but not as loud overall.
The 1000- and NSD-series subs are pretty basic - which helps keep them affordable - and they rely entirely on external EQ such as AVR-based Audyssey or stand-alone miniDSP. The Plus- and Ultra-series subs have built-in DSP, which allows for additional EQ'ing / tweaking.
I owned an older version, which used a BASH amp. The newer version uses a Sledge amp.
Edited by eljaycanuck - 1/22/13 at 7:28am

The PB12-NSD has only phase, gain and low pass settings. The additional DSP tuning features start at the PB12-Plus.

Glad to help! So...I guess you're not mad I brought ID subs into this thread?
That's an excellent place to start. Talk to Mason at SBA - he's the guy most people seem to deal with. And keep in mind that they offer (at least I think they still offer) a 5% discount on your second and subsequent subs.
It's not unthinkable. In fact, I believe Agent Smith said it best: "That is the sound of inevitability."
PBK is a neat feature, but it's not the only game in town. AVRs with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 can provide an excellent level of system - including subwoofer - calibration. And while I'm not really very familiar with miniDSP, it's a well-regarded and relatively inexpensive means of adding sub EQ capability to your system. I'd search AVS for more info - there's probably a thread dedicated to it - or contact the company for suggestions on what might work best for you.

I'm sure you will enjoy the PB12-NSD, it does look like a killer sub for the money.

I was just in s similar situation to yours. I was originally looking at the PB-1000, based on price and size. The more I read I realized I would need something larger, so I started looking at the PB12-NSD.
It is as large as I can fit, I have only 1 placement option. After much more reading it became clear to me, that with only placement option, I would probably need more tuning options to get the best possible sound. I ended up ordering the PC12-PLUS, due to it's footprint and tuning options. I didn't want to spend that much, but, I only want to do this once....So I bit the bullet.....
Now I'm just waiting for it to arrive....

The intent was there, just not as evil-sounding...
Yamaha has proprietary room-correction software - YPAO - and it's reputed not to be as good as Audyssey. But definitely run it *after* you've done a sub crawl to find the best two or three locations for the sub, and placed it in the one that offers the best compromise between output, overall sound, aesthetics, WAF, etc.
Once again, I'm glad to help. And I'm happy to see that you're more confident with the purchase you're about to make. Best of luck, and please do post your thoughts and comments once you've got the new sub dialled in.
Edited by eljaycanuck - 1/22/13 at 5:47am

Yes and it's fairly straightforward:
- Place your sub in your primarly listening position - up onto your chair of sofa - or as close to it as you can get.
- Run some bass tones or bass-heavy music.
- Crawl - or slowly walk while crouched or stooped over - around the perimeter of your room and note where the bass plays the loudest.
- Put the sub in that location or in one of those locations.

Performance wise, they spec out pretty much the same. My choice of the cylinder style was simply due to the foot print of it.

It wouldn't be any fun if you didn't...

Demoman,

for what it is worth, I agree with your approach and going with the SVS sub. I too have (until recently) an all Paradigm setup, including Anthem gear, and last week received my 2 new SVS SB-13 Ultras to replace/complement my Paradigm Seismic 12 (the reference version of the Ultracube 12). I think Paradigm makes fnatastic speakers at great value price points for those of us in Canada, but their subs are not really competitve with ID. Until I had done the upgrade, I was reasonably pleased with the Paradigm sub, but the SVS's just blow it out of the water. In fairness, the SVS Ultras are a better sub and 6 years newer than the Paradigm, but they were less expensive than the Paradigm by a significant margin.

I dealt with SBA and Mason and everything worked out great. SBA did honor the dual purchase discount that you see on the SVS US site, but not on the SBA site.

I think your choice for single PB12 will work out great. And the dual option for down the road is a great one. Dual really helps smooth out the bass across the seating area which always bugged me with the single sub, and the headroom is very significantly improved of course as well.

My comments on the Seismic 12 sub (very similar in spec to Ultracube 12):
- very strong deep bass, not as tight as the new SVS (things like gunshots sounded more like a thump instead of a snap - loud and with impact, just less tight)
- I had a lot of trouble using the Seismic 12 in near field as the passive radiators are quite localizable, and my main speakers are wall mounted and don't go very low - even though it sounded great in my room when located on side wall near the couch, it always bothered me that the bass sound came from tehe side, and n ot the front
- i prefer the front fireing of the new SVS, and strangely the much higher frequency capability, to seemlessly match with my mains - a surprising bonus that I was not planning on
- the in-sub 2 PEQ is nice on the Ultras, however I have had a lot of success with Behringher feedback pro process and ARC on the Anthem - i like it cause I'm a tweaker and it's nice to be able to do a quick smoothing of major peaks on subs individually when in dual more

Dave

Mine should be here late this week. I'll try to get it setup this weekend (if it arrives on time) and post a review....I am looking forward to it....

Every customer review I've read has been positive...to say the least...

OP what did you end up going with and what are your thoughts now after owning it for a while?
After reading this thread i feel like i wrote the first paragraph from the OP, Minus that i WAS looking at other companies for the sub. I finally ended up pulling the trigger this week on a PSA XV-15.
The sales guy where i bought all the paradigm Speakers from is so confident in the DSP3200 that he wants me to bring my Sub up to compare them side by side when i receive it.

Congrats on the new sub, DemoMan!

You definitely made the right decision. I've heard both Paradigm's in my space back-to-back and neither one impressed me whether that be for extension, articulation or SPL-wise. The Ultracube sub proves you can't trump physics and the DSP-3200 was middle-of-the-pack in a very ordinary subwoofer series, IMO.

ID companies easily trounce HiFi retail stores when it comes to price/performance ratio... sometimes by a very wide margin. The technology of the Ultracube/Seismic series might be impressive, but wouldn't you rather be paying for performance as opposed to neat-sounding rhetoric on a product sheet? Rhetorical question of course, since you already made the wise choice

Enjoy the new sub.