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DTS Headphone X - Home Theater in Pocket

post #1 of 37
1/21/13 at 5:59am
Thread Starter 
DTS is touting their 'Headphone X' technology as HTiP - Home Theater in Pocket - and they claim it is capable to replicating an 11.1 surround system through ordinary headphones. The platform is headphone-agnostic, allowing anybody to experience full surround sound with their existing gear. Although it is targeted at the mobile audience, one would expect the technology to show up in the next generation of AVRs, since it promises immersive 'silent' viewing. I also wonder if the technology is superior to the surround-sound headphones already on the market and targeted towards gamers. In theory, with good enough headphones a listener could exceed the fidelity of a very expensive system.

Just the other day I was listening to multi-channel DTS bitstream tracks from a Harman Kardon 7.1 surround demo CD. The effect is stunning through a proper system, it was the first time I 've truly heard the acoustics of a concert hall replicated in my living room. If the same quality can be achieved in headphones it would represent a significant leap forward for music listeners and for movie watchers alike.

More info from the DTS website
Quote:
'The DTS Headphone:X experience first requires surround content to be encoded as a DTS-HD® bit-stream with the room information embedded in the stream. Next, the DTS Headphone:X solution embedded on a PC, tablet or phone calibrates to the headphones in use. Finally, the reference data is decoded and post-processing enhancement techniques are employed to deliver a truly amazing, home theater quality surround sound experience over headphones.'

'Although DTS clearly has their eye on this being a mobile-geared technology - ideal for laptops, smartphones, and tablets - the late night home viewing implications cannot and should not be overlooked. With Headphone:X built into an A/V receiver and a pair of wireless headphones, one could conceivably experience a stirring late night movie without compromising the surround experience, and more importantly, without waking the kids and neighbors.'

source: http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/DTS-Headphone-X-at-CES2013.shtml



Quote:
Now in describing it, I’m sure you can guess what happened. In hearing it however, you’d be blown away. They had perfectly modeled the room, so when you heard the same voice go through the channels, not only did the direction seem exactly where you heard it before, but the timbre and room reverb seemed to match as well. Nearly everyone in the room lifted an earpad or two to see if they were being fooled. It's shockingly near-perfect.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2013/01/12/ces-2013-dts-headphone-x-surround-sound-your-headphones

Edited by imagic - 1/21/13 at 6:53am
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post #2 of 37
1/21/13 at 9:26am
This is pretty cool. I have yet to try a pair of virtual surround headphones. But what I've heard about the new DTS X Headphone Virtual surround is that it is pretty awesome.
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post #3 of 37
1/21/13 at 9:58am
Thread Starter 
I make music, and I'm thinking it's time to switch and produce all my mixes in 5.1 or 7.1 DTS. That HK 7.1 Demo CD, it was sitting around for months, I ignored it because I was not really interested in any of the music - big mistake. The quality of a true 5.1 mix stands apart. This article in Stereophile discusses how a demo with the new Sony ES speakers really impressed some of the most jaded ears in the industry - the key being the DSD multi channel audio. Of course all this is obvious to anyone who watches movies in 5.1/7.1 while 'audio' has languished in two-channel land, even with the popularity of surround matrix processing making it obvious people thirst for multi-channel music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyS View Post

This is pretty cool. I have yet to try a pair of virtual surround headphones. But what I've heard about the new DTS X Headphone Virtual surround is that it is pretty awesome.

Edited by imagic - 1/21/13 at 10:05am
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post #4 of 37
1/21/13 at 11:18am
Bring it on! Dolby headphone is nice, but most equipment (at least any I've used - never got my hands on a JVC SU-DH1) is limited to AC-3/Dolby Digital input. Would love to have something that works as well as Dolby Headphone, but can handle DTS and especially DTS-HD.
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post #5 of 37
1/21/13 at 1:09pm

I heard DTS Headphone:X at CES, and I was very impressed. First, they played a speaker ID track from speakers in the room (a voice saying "front left", "center," "front right," etc. coming from the corresponding speaker). Then, they played the same track in the headphones, and the sound was definitely "outside" my head; in fact, I took the headphones off to make sure the speakers weren't on (they weren't). It was one of the most effective simulations of surround sound in headphones I've heard yet, right up there with Smyth Research's Realizer, which costs over $3000. However, the DTS system does not track your head movement like the Realizer, so the position of the virtual speakers with respect to your head remains static, which can sound unnatural if you move your head around. Also, the DTS system does not model your specific ear canal, room acoustics, or speakers like the Realizer. Still, it was extremely impressive.

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post #6 of 37
1/21/13 at 3:58pm
How much and when?
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post #7 of 37
1/21/13 at 5:58pm
Thread Starter 
Not so much 'how much', more like 'at what price point' since we're looking at a premium embedded feature, one that will be implemented on tablets, smartphones, PC soundcards as well as AVRs. 'When' has not been announced... but when it is, I'll follow up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam View Post

How much and when?
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post #8 of 37
1/21/13 at 7:52pm
AVR implementation is still only "under evaluation" at the time being.
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post #9 of 37
1/21/13 at 11:06pm
Wonder if it's somehow encoding somethign to mimic binarual recording...

Try this with headphones...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA
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post #10 of 37
1/22/13 at 12:45am
No, it's very different from Binaural recordings.
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post #11 of 37
1/22/13 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

I heard DTS Headphone:X at CES, and I was very impressed. First, they played a speaker ID track from speakers in the room (a voice saying "front left", "center," "front right," etc. coming from the corresponding speaker). Then, they played the same track in the headphones, and the sound was definitely "outside" my head; in fact, I took the headphones off to make sure the speakers weren't on (they weren't). It was one of the most effective simulations of surround sound in headphones I've heard yet, right up there with Smyth Research's Realizer, which costs over $3000. However, the DTS system does not track your head movement like the Realizer, so the position of the virtual speakers with respect to your head remains static, which can sound unnatural if you move your head around. Also, the DTS system does not model your specific ear canal, room acoustics, or speakers like the Realizer. Still, it was extremely impressive.

I was just about to say it doesnt track your head when I saw your post.

This is a very interesting technology and I think it will be more than beneficial for the computer gaming community than anywhere else.
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post #12 of 37
1/22/13 at 9:51am
I think for (more) serious HT application it will work well even without head tracking. Your head will be facing towards the TV anyway, you don't really move your head that much when you're concentrating to the centre-point of your screen.
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post #13 of 37
1/22/13 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

No, it's very different from Binaural recordings.

So how do they do it without requiring special headphones with extra speakers then?
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post #14 of 37
1/22/13 at 11:37am
Binaural recording is recorded in Binaural, HeadphoneX uses room modelling.
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post #15 of 37
1/22/13 at 4:45pm

HeadphoneX and DTS MDA!

 

Yes please bring it on then I will upgrade my SSP-800, so I have a few more years!

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post #16 of 37
1/23/13 at 6:25pm
Are they modeling a room they have, or an ideal room?

I was tempted to buy the Smyth Realizer but it can only model your room. It would be cool model after DTS highend demo room, Lucas Film, or some high THX room... but at least for the Smyth, paying to recreate what you already have is kind of a let down (and nearly pointless). I wonder if DTS licensed the tech from Smyth and are making better use of the technology.
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post #17 of 37
1/23/13 at 7:25pm
I too was very impressed with the DTS demo. I would not pay $20 much less $3000 to copy my room since it is not a perfect sound room. I'm looking to get an improved sound room at low cost which the DTS system can do even with low cost stereo headphones.

DTS rep said they hope to license the technology for a simple box that gets a feed from your hdmi and is just a headphone amp so you can add it to any existing HT system and not need to upgrade your entire AVR. They are talking to headphone mfg. about doing this as well as the PC sound card makers, Apple ipad, and even smartphones.
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post #18 of 37
1/23/13 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

I too was very impressed with the DTS demo. I would not pay $20 much less $3000 to copy my room since it is not a perfect sound room. I'm looking to get an improved sound room at low cost which the DTS system can do even with low cost stereo headphones.

DTS rep said they hope to license the technology for a simple box that gets a feed from your hdmi and is just a headphone amp so you can add it to any existing HT system and not need to upgrade your entire AVR. They are talking to headphone mfg. about doing this as well as the PC sound card makers, Apple ipad, and even smartphones.

 

I hope so :) I love DTS waiting anxiously for M.D.A. in the mean time I am loading my room with high quality speakers

 

(3) B&W 800Diamonds L.C.R.

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(2) in ceiling B&W NT7

(2) JLAudio F113

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post #19 of 37
1/24/13 at 12:32am
Please someone build this tech into a good headphone amp. Headroom, if you're listening, if you build it we will come. Ditto Outlaw and Emotiva.
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post #20 of 37
1/24/13 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

Are they modeling a room they have, or an ideal room?

I was tempted to buy the Smyth Realizer but it can only model your room. It would be cool model after DTS highend demo room, Lucas Film, or some high THX room... but at least for the Smyth, paying to recreate what you already have is kind of a let down (and nearly pointless). I wonder if DTS licensed the tech from Smyth and are making better use of the technology.

During the CES show the room modelling they use is the room that they use for the show itself. However, according to the product development manager, which room they are modelling can be customized and stored as presets at the software level. So they can have (say) mixing studio room model, Mann's Chinese Theatre room model etc.

So the way it's going to work will be:

1. you'll need that technology, obviously
2. you will have to use a pair of headphone that is part of a list of hundreds of headphones they recommend (this wiill re-equalize the headphone frequency accordingly) in order to do the virtual speaker modelling.
3. you may or may not be able to choose the room modelling (at least one will be included, however) depending on the vendor who makes the equipment.
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post #21 of 37
1/24/13 at 4:17pm
As I posted in the other Headphone X thread:
Quote:
The biggest problem with Headphone X is having to re-encode all content AND implement new codecs in all the playback devices. I assume DTS does this so they can sell new licenses to all the movie studios, hardware manufacturers, etc. That's their business model, but how long will it take before anyone can actually buy a DVD with Headphone X encoding AND have a way to actually decode it and listen to it at home? It could be a long time...

Oh yes, and of course, Headphone X will never work with Dolby encoded audio.

Even if they did license Headphone X in a stand alone headphone amp or sound card, you would still have to buy that hardware and wait for content to become available.
Quote:
I own a Realiser and I have found that the localization of the virtual speakers and the sound accuracy is still remarkably good even if the measurements were made with someone else's ears.
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post #22 of 37
1/24/13 at 11:54pm
Does the software specifically need to be encoded for it, or is the virtualization done in the hardware.

Surround sound with headphones makes a lot of sense to me. It removes the room acoustic problems, soundproofing, seat to seat variations, and makes separate EQ per individual possible. A 7 year old girl in the audience won't need the high frequency boost grandpa likes. It would also allow those that feel they need to talk during the movie "as part of the experience" (like my wife) to go ahead and talk all she wants without bothering me. We all have 2 ears, do we really need speakers scattered all over the room? Sides, rears, heights, wides. Screens could be optimized for pictures instead of having to accommodate sound. Some drawbacks, I'm sure and not everyone will like it, but done well I think it could open up the HT experience for a lot more people.
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post #23 of 37
1/25/13 at 2:59am
The virtualization is done in the box so the input can be multi-ch LPCM or DTS, not part of the original soundtrack.
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post #24 of 37
1/25/13 at 8:18am
So you're saying that the content DOES NOT have to be encoded with the DTS data? In effect, we can use the DTS:X on old content? I'm slightly confused.
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post #25 of 37
1/25/13 at 8:38am
The way DTS HeadphoneX can be implemented is just like Dolby Headphone. It is NOT codec dependednt because the soundstream should go to PCM first before processed by the HeadphoneX circuitry. You can, in theory use Dolby encoded discs too. And yes, you can uise regular DTS track to be output through HeadphoneX circuitry.

Whether the HeadphoneX software will allow the processing done on LPCM and/or Dolby is up to the developer.

See it, if you will, like an external processor for any input you put into it.
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post #26 of 37
1/25/13 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

The way DTS HeadphoneX can be implemented is just like Dolby Headphone. It is NOT codec dependednt because the soundstream should go to PCM first before processed by the HeadphoneX circuitry. You can, in theory use Dolby encoded discs too. And yes, you can uise regular DTS track to be output through HeadphoneX circuitry.

Whether the HeadphoneX software will allow the processing done on LPCM and/or Dolby is up to the developer.

See it, if you will, like an external processor for any input you put into it.

That's my understanding from the DTS rep as well. But I understood if your input was 5.1 you could up that to 11.1 in the headphone:X too. Depending on how the maker implements the technology. Did you understand that?
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post #27 of 37
1/25/13 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 
That's how I understand it as well. It's like running Neo X 11.1 except with a virtual room and virtual speakers. Neo X takes whatever you feed it and runs with it, whether it be stereo, 5.1, 7.1 or The Expendables with its 11.1 mix - I'd expect Headphone X to do the same thing. The more discreet channels you have to work with, the more accurate the effect would be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

That's my understanding from the DTS rep as well. But I understood if your input was 5.1 you could up that to 11.1 in the headphone:X too. Depending on how the maker implements the technology. Did you understand that?
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post #28 of 37
1/25/13 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

The virtualization is done in the box so the input can be multi-ch LPCM or DTS, not part of the original soundtrack.

But the DTS website says:
Quote:
The DTS Headphone:X experience first requires surround content to be encoded as a DTS-HD bitstream, with the room information embedded in the stream. Next, DTS Headphone:X (embedded on a PC, tablet or phone) calibrates the headphones. Finally, the reference data is decoded and post-processing enhancement is employed to deliver a truly amazing, home theater quality surround sound experience over headphones.

Sounds to me that even if you have a hardware decoder, the source must be pre-encoded with Headphone X. It says that the room information has to be embedded in the stream. THEN you could have a piece of hardware that has a Headphone X decoder to extract that information and output it to headphones.

I haven't read anything that says it will accept existing audio streams and process the sound with Headphone X.

I did not go to CES, so perhaps the reps at the show were saying otherwise.
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post #29 of 37
1/25/13 at 9:14am
Thread Starter 
Here is the info from the DTS website. Headphone X will support all sorts of content, encoded or not. A DTS 5.1 mix (or Dolby) combined with an emulated listening room = HTiP. It's just that the standard could support up to 11.1 DTS encoding, as per 'The Expendables' as well as a model of the exact room used to mix down that specific movie. That's the spec fully implemented, and sure it might a rare thing - you'll probably only see it offered with blockbusters - but the technology itself will not be limited by that factor.
Quote:
DTS Headphone:X Benefits:
Home Theater in your Pocket (HTiP), offering a premium headphone audio experience with surround sound
Automatic calibration to various headphone makes and models
Post-processing enhancement that improves the overall quality of the audio for all kinds of content
A simple user interface (found on a phone or tablet) that enables consumers to personalize their listening experience
Presets emulate the DTS reference listening room or a professional Hollywood mixing stage, instead of a blind stereo upmix
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post

But the DTS website says:
Sounds to me that even if you have a hardware decoder, the source must be pre-encoded with Headphone X. It says that the room information has to be embedded in the stream. THEN you could have a piece of hardware that has a Headphone X decoder to extract that information and output it to headphones.

I haven't read anything that says it will accept existing audio streams and process the sound with Headphone X.

I did not go to CES, so perhaps the reps at the show were saying otherwise.

Edited by imagic - 1/25/13 at 1:06pm
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post #30 of 37
1/25/13 at 12:49pm
There you go, the above posts answered all questions directed to me, I think.
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