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Compairing speaker wire with Integrated amp A/B speaker out's - Page 2

post #31 of 33
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Well actually I just wanted to see the results of the tests but I guess never mind then, its always is the most uninformed people that argue the hardest either the people that dismiss every thing with know knowledge or the people that bought $1000 cables and are just defending there purchase, are the 2 types that seem to argue the hardest where all the people in the middle, like me, know that its probably somewhere between.

I'm not saying your the type that just dismisses every thing with out any knowledge, I don't know you enough to make that accusation but you sure are making it hard for me to find things out for my self and are making it sound like I should believe you over every one else because your are writing straightforward like you have all the answers. I don't have all the answers either, I'm not saying cables make a difference, I haven't tested them or read anything with pro measurements on it but when I ask for them I just get beaten around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Since you brought the point up, do you seriously think that people put their headphones on exactly the same every time they listen? Of course not! That is what is required for absolutely consistent sound from headphones. Otherwise the drivers don't line up the same with the pinnae and the ear canal. Otherwise the pads don't seal against the head with equal effectiveness. Do people slip their heads into clamps in their listening room so that they are in the same place and have the identical orientation? Of course not!

One of the advantages of quick-switched listening tests is that they happen rapidly enough that it is possible that the listener's location and orientation has not changed.
No but I'm sure they take there cans off and on a couple times with each cable to make sure that it is the cable making the difference, it not like headphones sound totally different every time you wear them.

What is this "quick switch thing" if it is what I need why hasn't anyone posted a link to one? like in the 1st or second post? (the reason I was thinking of my way over a switcher is because I know someone will say that the switcher will affect the sound)
post #32 of 33
Quote:
Well actually I just wanted to see the results of the tests but I guess never mind then, its always is the most uninformed people that argue the hardest either the people that dismiss every thing with know knowledge or the people that bought $1000 cables and are just defending there purchase, are the 2 types that seem to argue the hardest where all the people in the middle, like me, know that its probably somewhere between.
It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of everything you read on teh Internets. But you are wrong to assume that those who argue the most are always the ones who know the least. Arny's too shy to say so (heh), but I will tell you that he probably knows more about how to do valid listening comparisons than everyone else here put together. In fact, he co-invented a device to facilitate such tests. You're actually pretty fortunate to have found yourself in an exchange with someone of such expertise.
Quote:
I'm not saying your the type that just dismisses every thing with out any knowledge, I don't know you enough to make that accusation but you sure are making it hard for me to find things out for my self and are making it sound like I should believe you over every one else because your are writing straightforward like you have all the answers. I don't have all the answers either, I'm not saying cables make a difference, I haven't tested them or read anything with pro measurements on it but when I ask for them I just get beaten around.
I think the point is not to convince you to take anyone's word for it The point is that doing a reliable listening test isn't trivial. There are a lot of mistakes you can make that will make you think you hear a difference in sound quality when you really aren't. (There are also mistakes you can make that will make you think two things are the same when they really aren't.)

Let me give you an example. You propose to connect two sets of speaker cables to one set of speakers, using the Speaker A and Speaker B outputs of you amp/receiver. Arny's already mentioned the possibility that the two cables could affect each other. There's also the problem that the output level of your two speaker outputs are not the same. Even a trivial difference can fool you into thinking that the cables sound different, when all you're really hearing is the effect of that minor level difference. (so minor, by the way, that you won't notice that one cable is playing louder than the other.)
Quote:
What is this "quick switch thing" if it is what I need why hasn't anyone posted a link to one? like in the 1st or second post? (the reason I was thinking of my way over a switcher is because I know someone will say that the switcher will affect the sound)
Quick switching is a technique, not a device, though there are devices that allow you to do it. The idea is that our memory for subtle sound quality differences is very fleeting. In the time it would take someone to unplug one set of cables and insert another, you would forget whatever made the first set unique. So you wouldn't be able to tell them apart--even if they really were audibly distinguishable. Not using quick switching is one of those mistakes I mentioned earlier that can get you an incorrect result.

And you're right that people will argue that the switcher affected the sound, but they'd be wrong, and you can prove it. Get two pairs of identical cables, and test them with the switcher. If you can hear a difference, then the switcher is affecting the sound. If not, then it shouldn't be affecting the sound when comparing different cables, either.
post #33 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post


What is this "quick switch thing" if it is what I need why hasn't anyone posted a link to one? like in the 1st or second post? (the reason I was thinking of my way over a switcher is because I know someone will say that the switcher will affect the sound)

This is a drawing of one of the best quick switch boxes ever made:



It was controlled by this box:



which was controlled by this hand-held controller:



At one point there was a company that made these, and sold all three for under $1K. Maybe 40-50 sets were sold.

This is a picture from a well-known JAES paper by Meyer and Moran showing parts of one in actual use:



The owner built himself a larger status display for his box that has the letters A X B on it. The logic and display box is sitting on top of it and the hand held controller is hanging on a cord to its left.
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