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Olympus Has Fallen (March) - Page 2

post #31 of 54
3/26/13 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

If Olympus (or any other movie for that matter) used implied violence rather than graphic violence, would it change your interest in the movie?

The first DIE HARD had graphic violence. Had it not, it would have had no impact whatsoever. It felt real. The TV version is just blah. Violence that has no real life consequences lacks suspense.

As much as I liked Fast Five, the action was bloodless and so it never felt suspenseful to me. Thanks God they came up with the inventive 'drag the safe around the city' action, which was hilarious to watch. Live Free or Die Hard was bloodless and as a result had no spine. I could go on and on, but there is no point.

Even Dark Knight Rises and it's PG-13 violence harmed the ending where the cops go to war. The inability to shoot R rated action turned the ending into a lame non-event. Cops rushing into gunfire, a few going down bloodlessly and then the bad guy army, rather than continuing to fire their weapons, go hand to hand. Give me a break. It would be fight to the death considering what was at stake.

Anyway... whatever. cool.gif
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post #32 of 54
3/26/13 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

The first DIE HARD had graphic violence. Had it not, it would have had no impact whatsoever. It felt real. The TV version is just blah. Violence that has no real life consequences lacks suspense.

As much as I liked Fast Five, the action was bloodless and so it never felt suspenseful to me. Thanks God they came up with the inventive 'drag the safe around the city' action, which was hilarious to watch. Live Free or Die Hard was bloodless and as a result had no spine. I could go on and on, but there is no point.

Even Dark Knight Rises and it's PG-13 violence harmed the ending where the cops go to war. The inability to shoot R rated action turned the ending into a lame non-event. Cops rushing into gunfire, a few going down bloodlessly and then the bad guy army, rather than continuing to fire their weapons, go hand to hand. Give me a break. It would be fight to the death considering what was at stake.

Anyway... whatever. cool.gif

Exactly. I feel the same way about the end "fight" of DKR. Seemed like most were in mild peril or maybe just play fighting.

Although after Batman Begins, the Nolan Batman trilogy was just a theatrical tv mini-series crime drama with cameo appearances of Batman.
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post #33 of 54
3/27/13 at 7:45am
Yeah, I totally get that. Die Hard is IMO an excellent example, but also the exception, which I think there will always be such cases. You can more or less tell that Die Hard was written with "pain" in mind. Go figure, given the title, right? You get the sense that the John McClane character was written specifically to be beat up so severely. That's an integral part of the story. I'm cringing right now thinking about him walking through the glass barefoot. But it made sense with the development of the story and played well. And you definitely have to credit Bruce Willis for his portrayal.

However, take The Dark Knight for example. When the Joker slams the guys face (eye) on the pencil, you see him do it but you don't really see it. Or when he cut the guys mouth after his "Why so serious" monologue, they showed his motion but they didn't show him actually do it. I thought both of those scenes played just as well as Die Hard because there was no loss of suspense.
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post #34 of 54
3/27/13 at 8:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

However, take The Dark Knight for example. When the Joker slams the guys face (eye) on the pencil, you see him do it but you don't really see it. Or when he cut the guys mouth after his "Why so serious" monologue, they showed his motion but they didn't show him actually do it. I thought both of those scenes played just as well as Die Hard because there was no loss of suspense.

The pencil trick in TDK remains, dare I say, funny in some twisted way. The first time you see that scene, it goes so fast that you're left with The Joker's "tadaaaa" line...and the "element of surprise"... As for the "why so serious?" scene, I actually wouldn't have minded something more graphic. Why? Because The Joker doesn't care, he's a very smart and a very dangerous person, some blood would have enforce the insanity of this character. But it works, simply due to Heath Ledger's inspired performance, the way he builds, and brings tension is the key element. Having said that, I don't think it's fair to compare these scenes with the violence in Olympus Has Fallen. These 2 DTK scenes were dialogue driven, while Olympus Has Fallen's violent scenes are part of the action. So I still think it's justified, in the context of the film, to have that kind of violence blended in action sequences, because it simply helps "feeling" what's happening on screen on a more visceral level. In TDK, The Joker was the visceral ingredient, not the action.
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post #35 of 54
3/27/13 at 8:13am
I don't think there is any question that people have largely become desensitized to movie violence and in fact demand it for the story to succeed.

Is this a good thing? I'll leave that for you to decide.
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post #36 of 54
3/27/13 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

I don't think there is any question that people have largely become desensitized to movie violence and in fact demand it for the story to succeed.

Is this a good thing? I'll leave that for you to decide.
But this isn't true. PG-13 films are now almost completely bloodless. At one time blood squibs were allowed (in limited quantity) in PG-13 films and before that, PG. No, NO BLOOD SQUIBS can be shown. Filmmakers shoot violence without so much as a fleck of blood.

Just imagine how frightening the Joker 'Why so serious?!' face-slash scene would have been had just a few flecks of blood splatter hit the Joker's face. Such violence is fine for television... but not for PG-13! That is purely insane.

THE WOLVERINE trailer is finally out and it looks great, but the film will never be what it should be because it is PG-13. The main character is a berzerker with razor sharp claws! He slices people up! he kills them without mercy!

Bloodlessly rolleyes.gif
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post #37 of 54
3/27/13 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

But this isn't true.

If you say so.
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post #38 of 54
3/27/13 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

The pencil trick in TDK remains, dare I say, funny in some twisted way. The first time you see that scene, it goes so fast that you're left with The Joker's "tadaaaa" line...and the "element of surprise"... As for the "why so serious?" scene, I actually wouldn't have minded something more graphic. Why? Because The Joker doesn't care, he's a very smart and a very dangerous person, some blood would have enforce the insanity of this character. But it works, simply due to Heath Ledger's inspired performance, the way he builds, and brings tension is the key element. Having said that, I don't think it's fair to compare these scenes with the violence in Olympus Has Fallen. These 2 DTK scenes were dialogue driven, while Olympus Has Fallen's violent scenes are part of the action. So I still think it's justified, in the context of the film, to have that kind of violence blended in action sequences, because it simply helps "feeling" what's happening on screen on a more visceral level. In TDK, The Joker was the visceral ingredient, not the action.

Well said. And specifically to the point of my question, which again is the necessity of graphic violence vs. implied violence to tell a story. The movies discussed in this conversation I think are good examples for how both classifications work or are "needed" to tell a story. It just seems to me that there are more movies than not that use graphic violence senselessly or rather gratuitously, which to me is worse than, for example, Wolverine stabbing someone without any blood splatter. That's because with Wolverine, it's not as much about how he might stab someone as opposed to his anger causing him to do so relative to the story.

And to be clear, I'm not criticizing Olympus about violence one way or the other because I haven't even seen it yet (Damn snow storm!). I'm just curious about peoples thoughts regarding the use/necessity of violence in film these days using Olympus as a point of discussion since I've heard many on this forum and out of it that have commented on "how violent it is".
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post #39 of 54
3/27/13 at 9:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Such violence is fine for television... but not for PG-13! That is purely insane.

And Jaws was PG! eek.gifsmile.gif
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post #40 of 54
3/27/13 at 10:09am
Right! Crazy. It would be an R rated film today. Cartoon violence and sex and fart jokes are all ok. Gross out jokes are fine. Cartoonish violence is fine. But any realism at all and you get an R. OCTOPUSSY a pre PG-13 Bond film, would receive an R today because a Russian soldier takes a .380 bullet to the head. You see the hit, though it is virtually bloodless (virtually, not completely).

THAT would get you an instant R right now. But it was PG at that time.

Clint Eastwood's film PG action film FIREFOX and John Milius' PG-13 war film RED DAWN would both get slapped with R's today because of bullet squib hits.

DARK KNIGHT RISES' finale would have greatly benefited from some more realistic action. Appropriate action for what was taking place. No need for Saving private Ryan, but good grief, guns kill and an army with guns doesn't drop them to engage in fist fighting.

The ratings board is broken.
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post #41 of 54
3/27/13 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

And Jaws was PG! eek.gifsmile.gif

The animated DARK KNIGHT RETURNS was bloodier than ALL previous live-action Batman films combined. And it's a PG-13! I guess if it's animated, they can get away with it. Anyone who's ever read a Batman comic-book knows that the films should be R-Rated. That will never happen, of course. Warners has already gone on record saying (after WATCHMEN didn't make as much as they wanted) that they will never make another R-Rated super-hero movie.
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post #42 of 54
3/27/13 at 10:27am
Haaa....This is a portion of a local review about GI Joe Retaliation.....

This sequel to a 2009 action flick that flew under the radar to snatch about $300 million of worldwide revenues takes average-ness to new depths. With the courage of no convictions except selling popcorn and toys, it’s like a lavishly funded puppet show. So when the entire city of London is leveled by a maniac’s secret weapon, we’re so distracted by the lack of visible strings that we don’t notice the lack of civilian casualties. biggrin.gif
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post #43 of 54
3/28/13 at 9:35am
definitely a "must go" for this movie - I went with my kids (older teens) and we were spellbound with the action. Gory movie that's for sure.

Some scenes REALLY made me want to get a Blu-Ray version of this... the subsonic audio in the movie was pretty astounding.
There's one scene in the middle of the BIG action sequence (and you'll know which one it is) - just pummels your head & chest. My kids jaws dropped, not only from the visuals but the sound just made it that much better.

The movie isn't without flaws, but overall fantastic action movie.
Even if you're just one ounce patriotic - go see this movie.
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post #44 of 54
3/28/13 at 3:52pm
Yeah, now that I think about it again, I will probably be getting this film on Blu-Ray. The action sequences and sound will be the type of reference quality scenes that you use to show off your home theater.
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post #45 of 54
3/28/13 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tighr View Post

Yeah, now that I think about it again, I will probably be getting this film on Blu-Ray. The action sequences and sound will be the type of reference quality scenes that you use to show off your home theater.

Oh I'm definitely buying this one.

I came out feeling that this is our new Air Force One. Not an Oscar winner (really, we say that like that means that makes a movie enjoyable) but an action classic. Idk, I'm not saying this would ... but it might.
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post #46 of 54
3/30/13 at 5:45am
Hold on to your horses...White House Down will be here soon and might be better than this
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post #47 of 54
4/5/13 at 12:32pm
I saw "Olympus has Fallen" and agree with many critics that it is the best "Die Hard" movie ever made. Nice action film but with some hoke and manipulation in it that Hollywood just can't leave alone.
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post #48 of 54
4/5/13 at 1:08pm
Yes, Die Hard with the go-for-broke unapologetic over-the-topness and great cast to pull it off ala Independence Day.

Saw this last night with my lovely bride, our first date night at the movies for just the two of us since Robocop in 1985. Yes, folks, 28 years give or take, and we were just as blown away by Olympus Has Fallen as we were with Robocop back then.

Sure, analysts will correctly point out the unrealistic this and that, but they are missing the point.

This is a big, dumb, glorious, flag-waving, heroic, spear-in-the-eye-of-the-terrorists kick-ass movie.

It's about saying to the world that every American is ready to put a knife through the brain of every evil bastard out there who wants to mess with liberty, Mom, and apple pie.

LOVED IT! smile.gif

(Bias Disclaimer: I am ex-military and particularly partial to stories depicting the world's trash being dispatched with extreme prejudice. Your viewpoint may vary.)
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post #49 of 54
4/5/13 at 2:24pm
^^^^^

Well put sir! I like your style. smile.gif
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post #50 of 54
4/5/13 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonLoaf View Post

Yes, Die Hard with the go-for-broke unapologetic over-the-topness and great cast to pull it off ala Independence Day.

Saw this last night with my lovely bride, our first date night at the movies for just the two of us since Robocop in 1985. Yes, folks, 28 years give or take, and we were just as blown away by Olympus Has Fallen as we were with Robocop back then.

Sure, analysts will correctly point out the unrealistic this and that, but they are missing the point.

This is a big, dumb, glorious, flag-waving, heroic, spear-in-the-eye-of-the-terrorists kick-ass movie.

It's about saying to the world that every American is ready to put a knife through the brain of every evil bastard out there who wants to mess with liberty, Mom, and apple pie.

LOVED IT! smile.gif

(Bias Disclaimer: I am ex-military and particularly partial to stories depicting the world's trash being dispatched with extreme prejudice. Your viewpoint may vary.)

Are you sure this isn't something that was made back in the '80's and is just being released now? It doesn't sound like something Hollywood would make in this pc age. I'm surprised the terrorist weren't "white supremacist".rolleyes.gif I might have to check this out.
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post #51 of 54
4/6/13 at 2:19pm
I decided to back to back "Olympus has Fallen" with the remake of "Red Dawn". With Dawn you might have though you forgot to switch your set to the BD player and were watching today's news instead during the first two minutes until you get Hillary's clip. It too had some rather questionable manipulation or social engineering. I also got a kick out of some Michigan town standing in for Spokane. Funnier yet because Spokane has been used as a stand-in for Washington DC in some films.
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post #52 of 54
4/9/13 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoey67 View Post

Hold on to your horses...White House Down will be here soon and might be better than this
PG-13 action film = EPIC FAIL. tongue.gif
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post #53 of 54
4/9/13 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

PG-13 action film = EPIC FAIL. tongue.gif

I'm with ya, Matt.
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post #54 of 54
5/25/13 at 4:37pm
Saw this yesterday, as a hangover movie....fine.

But OMG this is probably one of the most stupid movies I've seen in a long while.
I'm as much an action movie addict as anyone but I just can't get over some rather over-the-top-stupid scenes.
Die Hard was logical and plausible compared to this one.
I don't mind unrealistic movies.....unless the level is on the other side of Pluto.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

1. A C-130 fly over washington, two F35 side by side, out comes 2xGatling guns a'la "give em a broad side" and shoot both aircrafts down.
2. Secret Service agents, run out into a .50 cal cross fire without any thought of cover.
3. They invent a system that will disable all nuclear weapons if triggered.
But didn't think of a "fail safe" if the missiles were still in the silo....great system smile.gif
Also great that you need a long abort code, when you're in the room with the only computer that is supposed to have access to the Cerburus system.
4. The main character haven't been on the president detail in 18 months and no passwords or pin codes have changed, at work we have better access security policies than that.
.
.
And the list goes on

Had fun watching the movie but most of the time it was laughing at the movie not with it.
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