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Yamaha YSP-2200 no video at start-up; recycling required

post #1 of 11
1/26/13 at 2:46pm
Thread Starter 
I'm trying to troubleshoot an unusual problem. I have a Ceton Echo plugged into the Yamaha YSP-2200, then to the Panasonic TV. No matter what order I turn the components on, I get sound but no video. The only thing that fixes this is to cycle the Yamaha. I thought at first that it was a problem with the Ceton Echo, but then I noticed the same problem with the old Apple TV (version 2) that I have. All connections are HDMI, all cables are known good. Has anyone else run into this? Thanks.
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post #2 of 11
1/27/13 at 10:03am
Thread Starter 
Update: I swapped out the TV for a known good monitor, and had the same problem. The Ceton video continues the same: no pass through unless I cycle the Yamaha. The Apple TV seems to have a bigger problem--even if I cycle the Yamaha, I only see the video for a few seconds before it goes blank again.
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post #3 of 11
1/27/13 at 12:36pm
How long are the cables? Only seeing a picture for a few seconds and then off again sounds like a problem on the HDCP line as it has to re-authenticate every 2 seconds. This can often be a cabling issue. Don't use ARC, if using it run a separate cable instead. Turn off CEC on all components, if that doesn't t help then I suggest testing the system with short <6ft cables.

There is a lot of areas HDMI can have problems but start with this diagnostic first.
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post #4 of 11
1/27/13 at 5:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

How long are the cables? Only seeing a picture for a few seconds and then off again sounds like a problem on the HDCP line as it has to re-authenticate every 2 seconds. This can often be a cabling issue. Don't use ARC, if using it run a separate cable instead. Turn off CEC on all components, if that doesn't t help then I suggest testing the system with short <6ft cables.

There is a lot of areas HDMI can have problems but start with this diagnostic first.

Thanks for your thoughts, BobL. I'm using 3-foot HDMI cables, I don't use ARC, and I have CEC off on the Yamaha (the Panasonic is too old to support CEC). I, too, was suspecting an HDCP issue, and that's why I tried swapping out the TV for a known good monitor that supports HDCP. I'm beginning to think that something is wrong with the Yamaha's HMDI-HDCP chips. In my experience, it's very, very rare for circuitry that's not exposed to excessive heat to go bad after only a year.
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post #5 of 11
1/27/13 at 7:35pm
Although with 3 ft cables it is unlikely the problem I might try different cables anyway if you have some available. Every now and then we see a bad short cable that won't carry the full bandwidth. With diagnosing problems with HDMI it can often be the component we don't expect. Most of the Yamaha receivers are HDMI-HDCP certified which few other products go through that testing. The testing is not mandatory. I'm not sure if the 2200 has been tested, I don't see it listed on the HDCP site but the 4100/5100 is listed. Many of the Panny TVs also passed testing. Yamaha and Panasonic are definitely companies that know HDMI-HDCP pretty well and aren't common trouble makers for not following HDMI spec. It is tough for consumers to diagnose these problems without instrumentation. It was a good thought to try a different display since the panny is older.

Completely disconnect one of the source devices. Change the resolution of the other to 480i and try it. Then try 480p and see if the problem still persists. If it works at those try 720P and 1080i. If it works at 480i or 480p and not 720P/1080i then do the same thing with the other device after disconnecting the first. Let me know what your results are.
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post #6 of 11
1/28/13 at 6:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

Completely disconnect one of the source devices. Change the resolution of the other to 480i and try it. Then try 480p and see if the problem still persists. If it works at those try 720P and 1080i. If it works at 480i or 480p and not 720P/1080i then do the same thing with the other device after disconnecting the first. Let me know what your results are.

BobL: I tried your suggestions, and no joy. I still have to cycle the Yamaha to get a video display. I next tried plugging the Ceton Echo directly into the TV, bypassing the Yamaha. The display worked properly. I think this means the fault lies with the Yamaha's HDMI passthrough. I hadn't mentioned it before, this had been working fine since I got the Yamaha, in February 2012.

I appreciate any other suggestions you may have.
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post #7 of 11
1/29/13 at 9:22am
If this just started happening and worked previously then I would contact Yamaha if still under warranty.

In general whenever you bypass a receiver or in this case a soundbar and it works fine directly to the display does not mean the receiver/ soundbar is at fault. It is often the source and sometimes it is the display. The source controls the whole system, it is the queen so to speak. When you add a piece in the middle like a receiver/soundbar that device has to authenticate with the source and identify itself as a repeater device and not a display called a sink. How the source handles the information that there is now a repeater in the chain is often the problem. Especially since many sources are of very low quality and have never been tested like most cable boxes.

In your particular case you are having problems with 2 sources which means it is more likely the soundbar or the display. You switched the display so that points more to the sound bar. It could still be cables as they very slightly deteriorate over time and their capacitance can change 1 or 2 picofarads but given that yours are short it would be uncommon.
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post #8 of 11
1/29/13 at 4:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

If this just started happening and worked previously then I would contact Yamaha if still under warranty.[snip].
BobL:
Thanks for the analysis. I did contact Yamaha, it's under warranty, and I'll be taking it in in the next few days.
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post #9 of 11
2/17/13 at 7:22pm
Thread Starter 
Warranty work done--replaced the HDMI board. Brought it home, hooked it up. First time on, worked okay. Second time--and every time since--it still needs power off/power on cycling to display video with the Ceton Echo, and it won't display video with the Apple TV. As before, I used various cables, all known to be good. Obviously, the problem was not with the HDMI board, but I remain confused as to how another problem would have affected the HDMI pass-trhough. I assume there's something in the power board that's doing something to the HDMI board. I'll call the warranty service place tomorrow (whoops--holiday--I guess I'll call on Tuesday) and see what they say about it.

I hope the service company can find the problem--I too, thought it was the HDMI board, and I'm not even sure how they would diagnose this is another component is causing the HDMI board to start malfunctioning. Come to think of it, this is the kind of problem that makes a company take back the unit and replace it with a refurbished unit.

I remain an unhappy camper.
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post #10 of 11
2/17/13 at 10:06pm
The only thing I can suggest is stop chasing your tail with this. Run HDMI from the Ceton and Apple TV directly to the display. Then run an optical cable from each device to the 2200. You'll have to do switching on both devices but an inexpensive universal remote can easily automate that if you desire.
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post #11 of 11
2/19/13 at 7:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

The only thing I can suggest is stop chasing your tail with this. Run HDMI from the Ceton and Apple TV directly to the display. Then run an optical cable from each device to the 2200. You'll have to do switching on both devices but an inexpensive universal remote can easily automate that if you desire.
Interesting, because I was thinking the same thing. For a gearhead like me, it's frustrating to be unable to diagnose the problem. But your solution would work. Thanks for your input.
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