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ZT60 Series, Shipping May 2013, Models/Sizes/List Prices - Page 17

post #481 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

I don't have brand loyalty...i have a microwave samsung, a LED Samsung, a recently bought refrigerator Samsung...but if you think that i have brand loyalty, what can i do? I don't buy things the need fix or never fixed...and that was the case with samsung tv...
About Ken i respect his opinions but he likes brightness and i prefer to take opinions like another guys that see both and say that VT60 is better because that guy is a little more objective...(And has a sammy tv).

See you are taking my words out of context, I never said YOU had brand loyalty...it was a general statement.....how is it being more objective if someone says I saw both and I like the VT60 better so Im going to go with what they say (because it fits what I want to like)? maybe that sentence didnt come across correctly.....

Who says Ken likes brightness? I have never once seen him say that.....
post #482 of 1309
Comparing sharpness is futile since there are so many variables. One can increase apparent sharpness without creating the dreaded Halo effect by using various methods including local contrast enhancement like the Darbee (only more sophisticated). Once you start injecting the sharpness control, you are in effect, altering the picture from the source. That the Darbee does this really well without introducing objectionable artifacts does not change the fact that this altered picture is as much a perversion as adding interpolated frames to the source. But the later is mostly derided as an abhorrence whereas the former is treated by many as a positive attribute.

If the interest is to determine fidelity of the display to the source, interpolation and sharpness controls have to be turned completely off when possible. The only thing debatable in this regard is intent--did the creator of the movie intend for "sharper" looking frame? And if they did, why didn't they add this processing to the source in the first place.

I don't buy the idea that there are non-biased reviews of any audio or video gear. Everyone who is a human being is biased. We are all the sum of our physical abilities, emotions, experiences and our preferences, both logical and however illogical. The trick is to figure out your own bias, and then align it with the reviewer's bias as much as possible to come to some sort of conclusion that hopefully is close to 100% correct for you.

It's like trying to "solve" poverty and war. There is NO solution, only vain attempts at one. Without the rich, there is no poor. Without war, there is no peace. Such is the human condition; the Ying and the Yang.
post #483 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I have a Samsung Galaxy S (cellphone) and a Samsung Tablet. I do have a bias against Apple, but I feel that it is justified. I wouldn't buy anything from Panny that comes to mind except for a plasma and that's because they offer the best picture quality for the price. I recommend Panny plasma to anyone since they come in several sizes and price ranges.

There is little chance that Samsung can all of a sudden become the king of plasma. Maybe next year? The bias against Panasonic is fairly obvious. I do wonder if anyone actually believes that the F8500 can beat the VT60 (or maybe even the ST60) all around? Nevermind the ZT60, which will be a total fail if it's not the best consumer plasma ever. An unbiased observation would factor in the superiority of Panny lately. Only a fanboy could ignore this.

actually only a fanboy would ignore the possibility that there is a chance that ANY set could take the prize.....

Not to mention who cares whos "king" the best TV is the one that the person ends up with and is happy with Panny\Sammy\LG\Whatever......
Edited by Ph8te - 4/17/13 at 12:50pm
post #484 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudekennilol View Post

This thread is getting ridiculous. Can't we just talk about TVs and compare them against competitors?

obviosuly not...wink.gif
Edited by Ph8te - 4/17/13 at 12:50pm
post #485 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudekennilol View Post

This thread is getting ridiculous. Can't we just talk about TVs and compare them against competitors?

+10 biggrin.gif
post #486 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

I use the video processor in my sony bluray player to upscale all my content to 1080p as well as to apply 3:2 when appropriate. No need for anything fancy to beat the tv's native one in this case unfortunately.

My Sony bluray S590 has 1 HDMI out. I have the bluray connected to the TV. I have my HD PVR satellite receiver connected to my TV directly via a HDMI. Question is how do I feed my satellite signal thru the Bluray? Thanks.
post #487 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooney74 View Post

My Sony bluray S590 has 1 HDMI out. I have the bluray connected to the TV. I have my HD PVR satellite receiver connected to my TV directly via a HDMI. Question is how do I feed my satellite signal thru the Bluray? Thanks.

Buy an Oppo?
post #488 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooney74 View Post

My Sony bluray S590 has 1 HDMI out. I have the bluray connected to the TV. I have my HD PVR satellite receiver connected to my TV directly via a HDMI. Question is how do I feed my satellite signal thru the Bluray? Thanks.

You can't do that with any bluray player. The only one that can do that is the oppo 103. It allows you to upscale your satellite/cable signal.
post #489 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post


thanks for the laugh I appreciate it....."Sammy boys" when myself and Ken havent made a decision on what TV to buy and are looking at the VT\ZT as well, well if anything the rampant "Panny Boys" are pushing me towards getting a Samsung....BTW if Im a so called sammy Boy then why have I suggested people wait for the VT\ZT recommended the Panasonic to people looking at Samsung, shoot I have told people to look at the Panasoincs more than ANY Samsung.....Guess its just some weird sort of mind game....

Ph8te, why even bother. Some have no idea of the points and comparisons we try to make. They've made up their mind and any opinions to the contrary are simply dismissed as 'fanboyism'.

I do think most others understand our sincerity and the fact that we're actually searching for the best overall PQ and not a particular brand. wink.gif
post #490 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Are Sammy or Panny buyers more likely to be considered videophile "purists"? Or is a generalization not applicable?

I hate to attempt an analogy to two channel audio (stereo), but there are those who are accustomed to an "over-processed" sound (and especially boomy bass) who simply aren't going to appreciate hi-end fidelity. Does the same apply to video?

IMO, neither. smile.gif
post #491 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by jch1 View Post

Ken, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe on the xt50 series sets, lowering the sharpness to 0 actually produces a sharper image. Additionally, why would you not test the Panny in THX night/dark room settings? I understand lighting probably wasn't ideal, but I believe the Samsung's best mode is the movie mode, whereas the Panny's best mode is certainly not THX bright room. It seems like if you wanted to get a more accurate comparison of these (non-calibrated) sets you would have viewed the VT60 in THX night mode.

Just my .02

I will try that next, thanks. However the reason we didn't do that is the THX night mode was so dim relative to the Samsung Movie mode, we really felt it put the VT at a disadvantage. We were really trying to make the VT look as competitive as possible to give it a fair shake. That's why I even bumped up the sharpness to see if I could get the same apparent sharpness out of both.
post #492 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Ph8te, why even bother. Some have no idea of the points and comparisons we try to make. They've made up their mind and any opinions to the contrary are simply dismissed as 'fanboyism'.

I do think most others understand our sincerity and the fact that we're actually searching for the best overall PQ and not a particular brand. wink.gif

I needed some exercise today so I felt the need to run in some circles biggrin.gif
post #493 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

I agree the conttrolled test will tell jsut as Ken said himself wink.gif hes still waiting for the shootuout so "bias" doesnt really play into it, as with me the VT and if it blows my sicks off the ZT are still in contention. Although the ZT becasue of the tiered rollout has already taken a hit in my purchasing checklist.....I wonder if Ken would still be biased if he ends up with a ZT or VT? biggrin.gif

I should note however that any personal review\observation will always have a tinge of being biased, well becasue you are looking for\at attributes that will appeal to you in your home, the more reports, observatiosn we ahve from people the better IMO that way we can get a better overall picture of how sets perform...

Yeah, this bias thing is really funny. If these guys that are accusing me of this knew the lengths I've gone to in trying to determine the best display for me, they'd feel pretty foolish. Funny that a guy who is allegedly biased is still evaluating these displays and still owns neither the Samsung or the Panasonic.

As a great philosopher once said, "whatever". smile.gif
post #494 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad0118 View Post

I prefer apple and Panasonic too... b/c they tend to make BETTER products. I guess I have a bias against inferior products.

Since I've seen no consistent pattern with any manufacturer, I take each product on a case by case basis. Seems to me that some reviewers felt a Samsung plasma was the best a year or two ago. Other reviewers felt Panasonic. I never would have considered a Samsung prior to this year, but it's funny how being objective can sometimes make your predispositions turn on a dime.

Those who are not objective or not 'manufacturer agnostic' will buy from the same company year after year. That approach may work the majority of the time, but it sure as hell opens you up to making a mistake at some point. Apple had a lock on IPhones for several years, but they tended to stagnate with innovations. That's why they're losing market share. I had 3 different versions of IPhones until last year and then realized there were other phones out there that had innovated and better fit my needs. Times change.

With displays, I will buy from whoever makes the best PQ for my needs. I've found that's a moving target. One year it was Pioneer, another year Sharp and this year either Panasonic or Samsung.

Objectivity, IMO, simply broadens your possibilities and for me, that's a good thing. smile.gif
post #495 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

You can't do that with any bluray player. The only one that can do that is the oppo 103. It allows you to upscale your satellite/cable signal.

Interesting....is there a thread that will provide me with more detail about upscaling my cable signal through the Oppo 103? TIA
post #496 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yeah, this bias thing is really funny. If these guys that are accusing me of this knew the lengths I've gone to in trying to determine the best display for me, they'd feel pretty foolish. Funny that a guy who is allegedly biased is still evaluating these displays and still owns neither the Samsung or the Panasonic.

As a great philosopher once said, "whatever". smile.gif

I was never stating you being biased. But what you've just stated is flat out wrong. Owning the product has absolutely nothing to do with someone being bias. It can play a part. But in this case that isn't the case. Same way Best Buy is more bias towards Samsung. They get paid more to do so.

It's always about the money.
post #497 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

You missed the test don't you? CNET Burn in TEST (Search on google)
And i don't enter on every panasonic thread to talk about F8500...i think it will be off topic...that's why i left F8500 thread...to me was ok, but not that good...i really think that will survive the hype and beat all Pannys...but in EU it doesn't...time will tell in NA. But that's all...sorry for the off topic...This is a Panasonic Thread and i talk about samsung...

If you don't see a brightness pops good for you...for me was a nightmare...play PES 2012 or FIFA 12 i don't buy that again.

CNET did not conduct a burn in test. What they reported on was entirely the result of an accident as the result of a Blu Ray player freezing overnight.
post #498 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by kps88user View Post

Interesting....is there a thread that will provide me with more detail about upscaling my cable signal through the Oppo 103? TIA
The owner's thread for the player of course.
post #499 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Since I've seen no consistent pattern with any manufacturer, I take each product on a case by case basis. Seems to me that some reviewers felt a Samsung plasma was the best a year or two ago. Other reviewers felt Panasonic. I never would have considered a Samsung prior to this year, but it's funny how being objective can sometimes make your predispositions turn on a dime.

Those who are not objective or not 'manufacturer agnostic' will buy from the same company year after year. That approach may work the majority of the time, but it sure as hell opens you up to making a mistake at some point. Apple had a lock on IPhones for several years, but they tended to stagnate with innovations. That's why they're losing market share. I had 3 different versions of IPhones until last year and then realized there were other phones out there that had innovated and better fit my needs. Times change.

With displays, I will buy from whoever makes the best PQ for my needs. I've found that's a moving target. One year it was Pioneer, another year Sharp and this year either Panasonic or Samsung.

Objectivity, IMO, simply broadens your possibilities and for me, that's a good thing. smile.gif

Couldn't agree more. Well said!
post #500 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

I don't have brand loyalty...i have a microwave samsung, a LED Samsung, a recently bought refrigerator Samsung...but if you think that i have brand loyalty, what can i do? I don't buy things the need fix or never fixed...and that was the case with samsung tv...
About Ken i respect his opinions but he likes brightness and i prefer to take opinions like another guys that see both and say that VT60 is better because that guy is a little more objective...(And has a sammy tv).

Actually I like brightness AND great MLLs. It's funny that some people totally dismiss the 8500 because they think it's only bright. They'd be wrong, very wrong. The 8500 also happens to have one of the best MLLs ever measured. No, not the best, but surely one of the best.

So one of the best MLLs coupled with the best brightness ever measured In a plasma, for a really great dynamic range. So you bet it's in the running for me. Why not?

But I respect your opinion in finding someone doing the same comparison, more objective if they find the VT is better. wink.gif
post #501 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I have a Samsung Galaxy S (cellphone) and a Samsung Tablet. I do have a bias against Apple, but I feel that it is justified. I wouldn't buy anything from Panny that comes to mind except for a plasma and that's because they offer the best picture quality for the price. I recommend Panny plasma to anyone since they come in several sizes and price ranges.

There is little chance that Samsung can all of a sudden become the king of plasma. Maybe next year? The bias against Panasonic is fairly obvious. I do wonder if anyone actually believes that the F8500 can beat the VT60 (or maybe even the ST60) all around? Nevermind the ZT60, which will be a total fail if it's not the best consumer plasma ever. An unbiased observation would factor in the superiority of Panny lately. Only a fanboy could ignore this.

Hey, no bias evident in this post! wink.gif
post #502 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

I was never stating you being biased. But what you've just stated is flat out wrong. Owning the product has absolutely nothing to do with someone being bias. It can play a part. But in this case that isn't the case. Same way Best Buy is more bias towards Samsung. They get paid more to do so.

It's always about the money.

And you know this how? You'd be utterly amazed at some of the markups on Panasonics at BB.
post #503 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooney74 View Post

My Sony bluray S590 has 1 HDMI out. I have the bluray connected to the TV. I have my HD PVR satellite receiver connected to my TV directly via a HDMI. Question is how do I feed my satellite signal thru the Bluray? Thanks.

Everything I watch is bluray or streamed from the player. You may need an avr with a processor to do what you want without buying an oppo.




Also checkout darbee darblet
Edited by mo949 - 4/18/13 at 2:36pm
post #504 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Since I've seen no consistent pattern with any manufacturer, I take each product on a case by case basis. Seems to me that some reviewers felt a Samsung plasma was the best a year or two ago. Other reviewers felt Panasonic. I never would have considered a Samsung prior to this year, but it's funny how being objective can sometimes make your predispositions turn on a dime.

Those who are not objective or not 'manufacturer agnostic' will buy from the same company year after year. That approach may work the majority of the time, but it sure as hell opens you up to making a mistake at some point. Apple had a lock on IPhones for several years, but they tended to stagnate with innovations. That's why they're losing market share. I had 3 different versions of IPhones until last year and then realized there were other phones out there that had innovated and better fit my needs. Times change.

With displays, I will buy from whoever makes the best PQ for my needs. I've found that's a moving target. One year it was Pioneer, another year Sharp and this year either Panasonic or Samsung.

Objectivity, IMO, simply broadens your possibilities and for me, that's a good thing. smile.gif

I agree. I wasn't stating that these two brands are currently the best, or will be going forward. Just responding to the claim that Cnet is biased because they have rated products from Panny/Apple higher in the past few years, when most (but not all) would say in the past few years, these two have made better products than anyone else.

I look forward to more direct comparisons between the VT/ZT/F8500 as will be done at the shootout (lots of hype this year!).
post #505 of 1309
Will a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

You can't do that with any bluray player. The only one that can do that is the oppo 103. It allows you to upscale your satellite/cable signal.

Will a Darbee do the same thing?
post #506 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

And you know this how? You'd be utterly amazed at some of the markups on Panasonics at BB.

There are many factors that go into the amount of margin a dealer makes. The transaction level markup doesn't even begin to tell the story. The actual amount of profit that is made will vary significantly from that number. In the end, most manufacturers aren't that different from each other.
post #507 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooney74 View Post

Will a
Will a Darbee do the same thing?

NO the Dabee doesn't up convert, and you can use a OPPO 105
post #508 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donloz View Post

NO the Dabee doesn't up convert, and you can use a OPPO 105

yep but unless he is going analog on the sound, the oppo 103 is a MUCH more affordable option for the same result. I have the 105, and it is AWESOME, but if you are not using the analog outputs you are really just wasting hundreds of dollars.
post #509 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donloz View Post

NO the Dabee doesn't up convert, and you can use a OPPO 105

my mistake.

I would recommend NOT getting the OPPO. If you are like me and want to stream both amazon and netflix with 5.1 surround sound your S590 is already superior. What you can do, is upgrade your AVR and get one with a good video processor in it...I believe some have the exact same video processor as the current OPPO's do anyhow.
post #510 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

yep but unless he is going analog on the sound, the oppo 103 is a MUCH more affordable option for the same result. I have the 105, and it is AWESOME, but if you are not using the analog outputs you are really just wasting hundreds of dollars.

IT"S only money. smile.gif I can't wait to hook up my 105 to the 65ZT60.
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