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ZT60 Series, Shipping May 2013, Models/Sizes/List Prices - Page 21

post #601 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

Someone else already commented, but my point is that there is the science, actual black levels measured, which is objective, but our viewing is subjective based on perception and many variables from set to set, room to room etc. Sure we can have a scientific standard of measurement, but the science behind each and every viewers perception, environment and the set itself becomes subjective based on variables of perception, environment and the display. The science says the Kuro has the deepest blacks, but the appearance of those blacks is a "reddish" tinge...that is the illusion of perception.[/quot

Science also says some Kuros have red tinge. This is fact. Even D-Nice has talked length about this. It's been photographed and it's well established and proven, yet you are the only individual saying otherwise.

This forum is getting a little weird lately.
post #602 of 1309
There is just so much conflicting info out there. I went to the MAV that told me on the phone that there were 9 ZTs on preorder. I spoke to the manager. He told me that there were 2 in his store and 5 in the area. He told me I could preorder by putting 25% down that was fully refundable. But he didn't know exactly when (He said sometime in June) or how many they are getting. I think I will wait until after the Shootout.

Here is something of interest. When I went into the store I saw a section cordoned off with a sign that said Coming Soon Samsung Experience or something to that effect. When I asked I was told the Samsung has purchased floor space in every BB for their exclusive use.
post #603 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Science also says some Kuros have red tinge. This is fact. Even D-Nice has talked length about this. It's been photographed and it's well established and proven, yet you are the only individual saying otherwise.

This forum is getting a little weird lately.

what I am actually claiming is black is the absence of (absorption of light) color. If the Kuro is displaying red either by the human eye perceiving it or the equipment testing it, then ?
post #604 of 1309
post #605 of 1309

It's the new king but has IR, dither, DFC and line bleed, that made me chuckle
post #606 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

what I am actually claiming is black is the absence of (absorption of light) color. If the Kuro is displaying red either by the human eye perceiving it or the equipment testing it, then ?

There are multiple reasons why blacks can have color tinges. This is nothing new on some displays. My SXRD had measurable bluish blacks. However, feel free to tell everyone and D-Nice who has witnessed reddish blacks on some Kuros that they are simply under an illusion. lol I'm not going to argue any longer.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1361871/official-pioneer-kuro-reddish-tint-problem-thread
post #607 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

It's the new king but has IR, dither, DFC and line bleed, that made me chuckle

My panasonic V20 had DFC only on the firsts hours of use, now this issue disapeared.
IR easily gone with mix content or slides. The other aspects i never notice on my set.
post #608 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

There are multiple reasons why blacks can have color tinges. This is nothing new on some displays. My SXRD had measurable bluish blacks. However, feel free to tell everyone and D-Nice who has witnessed reddish blacks on some Kuros that they are simply under an illusion. lol I'm not going to argue any longer.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1361871/official-pioneer-kuro-reddish-tint-problem-thread

Wow first off...we were arguing? I certainly wasn't David, Hello,,,remember we own the same SXRD sets? II was bringing up points for discussion and at the same time questioning the science and claims.

Second an illusion doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I was making the point about true black and the science of....if a display exhibits a red tinge than it isn't displaying true black. If true black is the absence of color and the kuro is displaying a red tinge than it must be absorbing that color for us to see and for the equipment to measure it. If it were able to display true black it would have to do so in a true black environment...correction...if equipment were to measure it as true black then the display would have to be able to produce it and wouldn't the room have to be true black as well or our eyes will perceive it to have color?

This is more than less what I am claiming. Interesting it is the last post in the thread you linked:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1361871/official-pioneer-kuro-reddish-tint-problem-thread/1110#post_23244103
post #609 of 1309

Where is vinnie when you need him, I think he may have just died lol wink.gif

For those wondering the numbers translate as follows:

Full black=~0.00029ftL
ANSI=~0.0005-~0.0008ftL

Thats if the reading were correct and the tool I used converted correctly. Looks like Kuro owners may actually have a set they can move to and be "happy" with smile.gif
post #610 of 1309
Well, there ya go wink.gif
post #611 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Where is vinnie when you need him, I think he may have just died lol wink.gif

For those wondering the numbers translate as follows:

Full black=~0.00029ftL
ANSI=~0.0005-~0.0008ftL

Thats if the reading were correct and the tool I used converted correctly. Looks like Kuro owners may actually have a set they can move to and be "happy" with smile.gif
Holy eff...I'm just back in from a day-long excursion. Off to see what this is all about. wink.gif
post #612 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Holy eff...I'm just back in from a day-long excursion. Off to see what this is all about. wink.gif


I think you are going to be mighty happy from this inital review smile.gif ...
post #613 of 1309
Between those 2 values, full black is most important methinks (thanks to the aforementioned effect of pupil dilatation), and that is better than even the hallowed Sharp Elite at 0.0004 (and yes, deeper than the KRP-500M/101FD at 0.0005, notwithstanding D-Nice's voodoo calibration tricks wink.gif). This is some nice red meat to sink one's teeth into before the shootout in any case.
post #614 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Between those 2 values, full black is most important methinks (thanks to the aforementioned effect of pupil dilatation), and that is better than even the hallowed Sharp Elite at 0.0004 (and yes, deeper than the KRP-500M/101FD at 0.0005, notwithstanding D-Nice's voodoo calibration tricks wink.gif). This is some nice red meat to sink one's teeth into before the shootout in any case.

Only returned to post here to read vinnie97:
Greetings vinnie97 and i told you that you would be very VERY happy with a ZT60.

Hey...don't forget David Mackenzie review in a few days...that will be insane....
post #615 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Between those 2 values, full black is most important methinks (thanks to the aforementioned effect of pupil dilatation), and that is better than even the hallowed Sharp Elite at 0.0004 (and yes, deeper than the KRP-500M/101FD at 0.0005, notwithstanding D-Nice's voodoo calibration tricks wink.gif). This is some nice red meat to sink one's teeth into before the shootout in any case.

Well how often do you watch a full black screen? That is the quesiton, whats the percentage? Most of the time we have contrasting elements which is why ANSI numbers are taken...Otherwise there would be no need for the ANSI test wink.gif....I mean if you pay attention to full black then LCD full dimming that shut the screen off would be "king"......When tehre is any content being fed that additional light being output affects the way we percieve how dark\black the set will get......

Personally I would wait as that 5x number seems low to me, your Kuro for instance gets into the 8x\9x range, that is quite a difference IMO.....The ZT gets darker for sure thats without question, but something doesnt seem right (JMOHO)......With them saying taht the black gets crushed if you increase the brightness to match the KURO levels, the blacks getting crushed if you want to get a brighter picture would make me hesitant unitl we get some more reviews in especially NA reviews......Thats just me though as Im trying to look at all the numebrs being given, for those who dall if not most of thier viewing in a blackout\very dark room this most likely not be an issue.....

Hopefully the shootoutcan clear some of this up....
post #616 of 1309
Right, but how much real world content does the checkerboard pattern actually emulate? ;D It is a fine nuance, though, and I guess we'll see just how much this ANSI "weakness" correlates with actual content viewing. For quick reference, what is the F8500 and the VT60 doing?
post #617 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Right, but how much real world content does the checkerboard pattern actually emulate? ;D It is a fine nuance, though, and I guess we'll see just how much this ANSI "weakness" correlates with actual content viewing. For quick reference, what is the F8500 and the VT60 doing?

I posted that in the other thread, and took the numebr form AVForums reviews...

The VT60 was in the high 60's
The GT60 was in the low to mid 90's
The F8500 was in the 100's

Those are the white of course

The Kuro I believe is in the 8x\9x range.........

It may not mean a lot to some, but I found it interesting........They decided to use the EBU mode since it was more "consistent"...Other modes were able to get brighter, but they didnt give those numbers and at thier brightiest measurement of ~108, but blacks were crushed......They didnt give the ANSO of the other modes, so we only have on\off measurements.....Hopefully durign teh shootout they go into more detail about these these things and the different settings....

As far as the checkerboard pattern and real content, I believe it is meant to show how the set would handle content of both very dark and very light ratios on the screen at the same time......There sare varrying other tests that can be done on the set to more closely match actual content and which will probably eventually get done as we get these set out into the wild......
post #618 of 1309
Wife and I just had a good long talk about our next tv purchase. "WE" decided our next tv should be the ZT! Hoping it will last us a long time for that kind of money. It's not like you can move that size tv to the bedroom to justify a new tv purchase like we're doing now. Gonna go maybe this weekend and put down deposit.
post #619 of 1309
Have you found a place that takes pre-orders?
post #620 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

Have you found a place that takes pre-orders?
Hoping BB, didn't I read they were taking deposits that were refundable?
post #621 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Right, but how much real world content does the checkerboard pattern actually emulate? ;D It is a fine nuance, though, and I guess we'll see just how much this ANSI "weakness" correlates with actual content viewing. For quick reference, what is the F8500 and the VT60 doing?

I posted that in the other thread, and took the numebr form AVForums reviews...

The VT60 was in the high 60's
The GT60 was in the low to mid 90's
The F8500 was in the 100's

Those are the white of course

The Kuro I believe is in the 8x\9x range.........

It may not mean a lot to some, but I found it interesting........They decided to use the EBU mode since it was more "consistent"...Other modes were able to get brighter, but they didnt give those numbers and at thier brightiest measurement of ~108, but blacks were crushed......They didnt give the ANSO of the other modes, so we only have on\off measurements.....Hopefully durign teh shootout they go into more detail about these these things and the different settings....

As far as the checkerboard pattern and real content, I believe it is meant to show how the set would handle content of both very dark and very light ratios on the screen at the same time......There sare varrying other tests that can be done on the set to more closely match actual content and which will probably eventually get done as we get these set out into the wild......

The reviewer said he used the Pro Mode.
post #622 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Akin View Post

Hoping BB, didn't I read they were taking deposits that were refundable?

There is currently no official process in place at MHT stores to take deposits. Some are allowing customers to purchase through a "workaround" in the system. I don't recommend [lacing an order this way though, as it requires the orders to be manually tracked by the store and increases the possibility that your order can slip through the cracks. A solution is being worked out to allow an actual order to be placed in advance of inventory being available, but it may be a week or so before that is possible. Also, either method requires full payment upfront. The only stores that allow partial deposits are Magnolia Design Center locations. Keep an eye on the thread and I'm sure someone will post as soon as they are available to purchase. You shouldn't have too much trouble getting your hands on one.
post #623 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Akin View Post

Wife and I just had a good long talk about our next tv purchase. "WE" decided our next tv should be the ZT! Hoping it will last us a long time for that kind of money. It's not like you can move that size tv to the bedroom to justify a new tv purchase like we're doing now. Gonna go maybe this weekend and put down deposit.

That is my plan. Purchase the ZT60 65" this year. In a few years when I can afford an 85" 4K OLED TV move my puny 65" into the bedroom. I imagine within 3-4 years we'll finally see quality 85" OLEDs at a price below $10,000.
post #624 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

There is currently no official process in place at MHT stores to take deposits. Some are allowing customers to purchase through a "workaround" in the system. I don't recommend [lacing an order this way though, as it requires the orders to be manually tracked by the store and increases the possibility that your order can slip through the cracks. A solution is being worked out to allow an actual order to be placed in advance of inventory being available, but it may be a week or so before that is possible. Also, either method requires full payment upfront. The only stores that allow partial deposits are Magnolia Design Center locations. Keep an eye on the thread and I'm sure someone will post as soon as they are available to purchase. You shouldn't have too much trouble getting your hands on one.
Thanks for the info speakerphile
post #625 of 1309
What is best buy charging for the ZT65/pre order?
post #626 of 1309
If they are taking pre orders, I'm sure it will be MSRP.
post #627 of 1309
Exclusive distribution rights on one of the best TVs ever made before it's even released? Yeah, that'll be MSRP.
post #628 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

Exclusive distribution rights on one of the best TVs ever made before it's even released? Yeah, that'll be MSRP.


Thanks guys, what's the MSRP on the 65"?
post #629 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post

Thanks guys, what's the MSRP on the 65"?

~4100,
post #630 of 1309
If I hold out on preordering, is it typical to get this set later on for $2500-$3000 from a online vendor? Just trying to figure out my options here. If there is a $1000+ savings to be gad id rather go that riute.Thanks for the responses!
Edited by dasanii19 - 4/30/13 at 9:34am
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