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ZT60 Series, Shipping May 2013, Models/Sizes/List Prices - Page 30

post #871 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Either way, what I've observed are two NA models. My observations of the aggressiveness of the ABL would be applicable to the NA models at Magnolia. It's possible the NA models will have a greater peak brightness, but I can tell the ABL is very aggressive nonetheless.

Honestly, I would rather have the Panasonic ABL with the bit of a darker picture (that will be less noticeable in home not beside the 8500) then have the 8500 with it's ABL and constant brightness pops that are quite noticeable at home with no other tv around.

I owned a VT50 and a F8500 and the 8500 was worse, couldn't stand the brightness pops. That tv was sent back after a week of having it and I only used it once. Couldn't stand the pops and went back to my old plasma/CRT tv. That's how bad and annoying that was. Now waiting on a ZT60.
post #872 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

And as I saw today in a VT vs 8500 test at a Magnolia, the differences in the aggressiveness of the two ABLs is very significant. In a couple of scenes, that I would not have considered particularly demanding, the 8500 had no observable throttling of its brightness as a bright overcast sky occupied about 50% of the screen. Yet the VT looked considerably dimmer on this same scene as the ABL very obviously throttled back the brightness. This occurred in virtually any mode I tried. On less demanding scenes, both displays had the same apparent brightness.

Yeah I have noticed that ABL kicking in too. When I have totally jacked up the brightness on the VT60 I am not getting the peak luminance that I get on my Kuro. I have asked here before....... If an ISF mode will add a little to the overall brighness?
post #873 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

This was brought up before when the avforums review came out. Not sure if its Eu related or not, which is why I would wait for the shootout and see what happens. There could very well be a difference between the sets (as we have already seen with the calibration differences)....


I hope it is an EU difference, but I am not so sure from what I have observed with the VT60's. Hope I am wrong though cause I would like to get a ZT, but if it does not have the peak luminance of at least my Kuro it's a no go and, in my opinion, not a better overall set.
post #874 of 1309
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xer0dIn View Post

I just purchased the 65" ZT60 yesterday from my local BestBuy. I didn't pay MSRP, I was actually offered a discount without even asking by the sales associate. Maybe they did this because they don't sell high end TV's at this location very often. I live in Alabama, there aren't any Magnolia stores in the state. The sales associate went and got the manager and she took a little off. Maybe it was also due to the fact that I was interested in the protection plan, I know, don't buy these protection plans is what I hear all the time, it's a waste. However, with all the concern over IR, I figured what the heck, if I get a little IR, I'll get another TV, it's a 5 year protection plan. I have a Pioneer 6020FD, so I'm one of the Pioneer guys pulling the trigger on a set that is supposed to be better. I only pulled the trigger after seeing the first review of the European model. I got overly excited and ended up pre-ordering. tongue.gif

The manager called a Magnolia store in Atlanta for a sales associate she must deal with frequently, he was in her phone contact list. He said that he may have two on site and he would get back with her when he is in the store next week. I doubt this but hopefully it's true. I asked when did the computers say they are getting some in, she said they would be at the warehouse for the magnolia stores on May 19th. She said the computers also wouldn't allow them to look at other Magnolia stores local inventory to see if it was true that there are two.

Here is hoping I get it soon...

Question is what kind of a discount -- how much? Did you have to buy a protection plan?
post #875 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Well as a Kuro owner who is thinking of switching this quote for the review is most disturbing which is kind of as I thought.....They are probably sacrificing brightness for black levels:

This is what I said I was thinking after the first review
post #876 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Yeah I have noticed that ABL kicking in too. When I have totally jacked up the brightness on the VT60 I am not getting the peak luminance that I get on my Kuro. I have asked here before....... If an ISF mode will add a little to the overall brighness?

You increase peak luminance by increasing contrast.

Using an ISF memory does not give you the ability to increase peak luminance. It's just an easier way to make the same settings.
post #877 of 1309
Thread Starter 
We're nitpicking folks!

"The clean, high gradation, low-dither panel driving, outstanding anti-reflective screen coating, sublime black-level performance, suitably bright peak luminance, accurate greyscale, gamma and colour, and lack of any troublesome forced video processing features… all combine to make the Panasonic ZT’s picture quality some of the best we’ve ever seen on a flat-screen HDTV during both daytime and nighttime viewing. For someone with a vested interest in film and high quality reproduction of it in the home, it’s impossible not to get a little emotional at the results this panel produces, but we’ll avoid embarrassing ourselves with a fountain of superlatives, and just provide the facts. You can’t go wrong with any of them, but weighed up subjectively, the strengths of the TXP60ZT65B arguably do make it the best HDTV we’ve ever tested. Of course that doesn’t mean it’s perfect: if you don’t like Panasonic’s approach to panel driving (which, in our opinion, is a great balance between smooth, clean images and sufficient, but not total suppression of false contouring during motion) then you still won’t like the ZT."

What more does anyone want?
Edited by Glashub - 5/6/13 at 4:19pm
post #878 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Seriously, a 5-year-old TV getting bested? I'm gonna' cry in my sleep tonight.

biggrin.gif You should know I dont care about stuff like that, should ahve put a smiley at the end of it to show I was being facetious
I don't either. smile.gif

When I was looking at the Kuro 150/6010 choice, I ask a very well known calibrator how many of his customers could tell the difference between the Elite and the 6010 if they were both calibrated. He thought that maybe five percent could. I don't remember if he meant side by side or in serial order with a gap between viewing sessions.

I knew I couldn't tell the difference unless they were side by side, so I saved the additional $2,500 because the 6010 could be purchased on-line. If we get hit by lightning, a flood, or the "Big One" here in Palo Alto this year, I'll be sure to pick the replacement display the same way. eek.gif
Edited by htwaits - 5/6/13 at 4:34pm
post #879 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

We're nitpicking folks!

"The clean, high gradation, low-dither panel driving, outstanding anti-reflective screen coating, sublime black-level performance, suitably bright peak luminance, accurate greyscale, gamma and colour, and lack of any troublesome forced video processing features… all combine to make the Panasonic ZT’s picture quality some of the best we’ve ever seen on a flat-screen HDTV during both daytime and nighttime viewing. For someone with a vested interest in film and high quality reproduction of it in the home, it’s impossible not to get a little emotional at the results this panel produces, but we’ll avoid embarrassing ourselves with a fountain of superlatives, and just provide the facts. You can’t go wrong with any of them, but weighed up subjectively, the strengths of the TXP60ZT65B arguably do make it the best HDTV we’ve ever tested. Of course that doesn’t mean it’s perfect: if you don’t like Panasonic’s approach to panel driving (which, in our opinion, is a great balance between smooth, clean images and sufficient, but not total suppression of false contouring during motion) then you still won’t like the ZT."

What more does anyone want?

Not sure if youre serious asking that question in this forum wink.gifbiggrin.gif
post #880 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

We're nitpicking folks!

"The clean, high gradation, low-dither panel driving, outstanding anti-reflective screen coating, sublime black-level performance, suitably bright peak luminance, accurate greyscale, gamma and colour, and lack of any troublesome forced video processing features… all combine to make the Panasonic ZT’s picture quality some of the best we’ve ever seen on a flat-screen HDTV during both daytime and nighttime viewing. For someone with a vested interest in film and high quality reproduction of it in the home, it’s impossible not to get a little emotional at the results this panel produces, but we’ll avoid embarrassing ourselves with a fountain of superlatives, and just provide the facts. You can’t go wrong with any of them, but weighed up subjectively, the strengths of the TXP60ZT65B arguably do make it the best HDTV we’ve ever tested. Of course that doesn’t mean it’s perfect: if you don’t like Panasonic’s approach to panel driving (which, in our opinion, is a great balance between smooth, clean images and sufficient, but not total suppression of false contouring during motion) then you still won’t like the ZT."

What more does anyone want?

Amen brother.
post #881 of 1309
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Not sure if youre serious asking that question in this forum wink.gifbiggrin.gif

Yeah, that was a stupid rhetorical question to ask on this forum, huh? I might have just set off a several page discussion as to what more could be done and how Samsung and Panny are working us over by not delivering it.
post #882 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by schnura View Post


Best Buy has been the easiest place to get discounts, often without even asking and on UPP, hard to get and even exclusive products. Also I don't think it's the B&M authorized dealers that are the problem in deep discounting. It's the unauthorized internet sellers that are the problem and that could easily be policed by Panasonic if they wanted to do so. I also don't think anyone will ever have excess ZT60 inventory to worry about selling to other unauthorized retail outlets.

Regarding Panasonic limiting the distribution that's a good idea that could exactly be accomplished without eliminating all independent retailers and from reading articles that has already happened. And I still don't agree that this is a good thing for Panasonic to %$*#! off all of their loyal smaller dealers to be exclusive to Best Buy and I dont see how this benefits the end users or the market in any way.

Finally, although this Panasonic exclusive offer was intended to be a Magnolia exclusive, but immediately turned into a full Best Buy distribution offer seems to make me think this was just a sweetheart deal that has other agendas.



I agree, unauthorized internet re-sellers are a big part of the problem. Where do you think they get their inventory? I can tell you it's not from Best Buy. In a lot of cases it is from distributors, or B&M authorized retailers, selling the product sideways without authorization.(grey-market)


Not sure what you mean by the last line. This TV will only be on display in Magnolia stores. You have always been able to purchase all Panasonic series through any Best Buy store. Nothing new here.

You'll have to elaborate on what you think this "other agenda" is.
post #883 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

We're nitpicking folks!
You can’t go wrong with any of them, but weighed up subjectively, the strengths of the TXP60ZT65B arguably do make it the best HDTV we’ve ever tested. Of course that doesn’t mean it’s perfect: if you don’t like Panasonic’s approach to panel driving (which, in our opinion, is a great balance between smooth, clean images and sufficient, but not total suppression of false contouring during motion) then you still won’t like the ZT."



The funniest part is when any Kuro fanatic fanboy realizes that the ZT has been given an edge in all the reviews coming out they come back with "Oh yeah.....well it took them 5 YEARS to catch up to the Kuro. Big deal! Is that really tech moving forward?"

Yes it is tech moving forward. 4 months ago everyone was crying there wasn't a Kuro substitute. Now there is one and the complaint is it took too long or that you really wouldn't see the benefits unless they were side by side(which is pretty much where the VT50 was at last year but some how they were deemed garbage).
post #884 of 1309
Us versus them again, here we g0! I understand your point, but I would not blame a 60" Kuro owner for sitting it out this year. Those craving more screen real estate (and 3D), sure!
post #885 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

You increase peak luminance by increasing contrast.

Using an ISF memory does not give you the ability to increase peak luminance. It's just an easier way to make the same settings.


I may be wrong, since it's been a few years, but if I remember correctly, the ISF mode, unlocked by ControlCal allowed you to set a higher peak luminance than other modes on the Kuro Elites.....not sure if that can/will happen with the Panasonics?
post #886 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

that has certainly not been my experience

with two different Samsung purchases

46D7000...Best Buy was $550 higher than frys
I took the picture of the price tag at the Frys store with my phone and showed it to Best Buy
The sales guy at best Buy looked at the picture like it could not be real and said they were losing hundreds at that price

I said "really...and..."...so managers had to be called to check it out...they had to call the store and verify they had new in box inventory at that price....it was 30 minutes dealing with this
All from a store that 15 minutes away from them. At one point I asked the store manager..."shouldn't you have a a handle on the price points of your sale prices vs the competition"?

64D8000...Best Buy was $650 higher than Frys
When I asked the salesguy in Magnolia he told me "they are losing hundreds per Tv at that price "..and that he should
go over and buy some to resell. I left right then and went to frys to buy the TV

Another situation...There was a clearance on yamaha A3000 receivers in Magnolia on the west coast , upper midwest and east coast stores
My local Magnolia would not match the price...which was $350 more in my market
I had a couple of copies of a couple of Magnolia receipts that fellow AVS forum members were kind enough to email me to verify the price...I took them with me

So...I dont have good luck and thats why I dont really try a price match anymore in there


Warren

So you DID get the deal on the 47?

On the 64, I would be interested to know the time of year they were that cheap. Was this year-end closeout? While Best Buy is competitive on a national level there will be times when a regional competitor has a better price(Though not typically by this much, which makes me wonder if it was clearance). They are not going to make a national price move based on a regional competitor though. Assuming this store was in your area and had them in-stock, the store should have called to verify the price and matched it.

Clearance prices cannot be price matched. The policy is clear about that. Clearance pricing can vary from location to location in certain circumstances.


EDIT: After reading this, it sounds a bit rude. That was not my intention. Just trying to explain the method behind some of the madness.
Edited by Speakerphile - 5/6/13 at 7:12pm
post #887 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleboyjones View Post

The funniest part is when any Kuro fanatic fanboy realizes that the ZT has been given an edge in all the reviews coming out they come back with "Oh yeah.....well it took them 5 YEARS to catch up to the Kuro. Big deal! Is that really tech moving forward?"

Yes it is tech moving forward. 4 months ago everyone was crying there wasn't a Kuro substitute. Now there is one and the complaint is it took too long or that you really wouldn't see the benefits unless they were side by side(which is pretty much where the VT50 was at last year but some how they were deemed garbage).


Well for me if the ABL is killing the the peak luminance that's a problem. That means you will have a more dull looking set in a very bright scene. In order for me to replace my Kuro, I was looking for a set with peak luminance as good as if not better my Kuro with at least as good of a black level, and also more modern things like wifi, 3D.....less heat. It seems like with the VT and ZT we will only be getting the black levels and not the brightness that even a 5yr old Kuro can give. Seems like a step backward if true.
post #888 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Question is what kind of a discount -- how much? Did you have to buy a protection plan?

Sent you PM with price, I think it's frowned upon in regular thread. I did not have to buy protection plan, price was in place before I added the 5 year plan.
post #889 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

And they said: "The best TV we've ever tested".
It will be good, we will see about the best thing wink.gif
post #890 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

Honestly, I would rather have the Panasonic ABL with the bit of a darker picture (that will be less noticeable in home not beside the 8500) then have the 8500 with it's ABL and constant brightness pops that are quite noticeable at home with no other tv around.

I owned a VT50 and a F8500 and the 8500 was worse, couldn't stand the brightness pops. That tv was sent back after a week of having it and I only used it once. Couldn't stand the pops and went back to my old plasma/CRT tv. That's how bad and annoying that was. Now waiting on a ZT60.

Not everyone seems to be suffering from them the way you did. Perhaps it's the content, perhaps it's the settings, perhaps it's panel variance or just the sensitivity to the issue.

But yes, for some every last ounce of MLL is what they're after. We all have our hot buttons, but I can tell you, with some of the ABL behavior I've seen on the VT60, I wouldn't need an A/B to see it. I really wouldn't. Having lived with an LED for the last year plus, I've become used to unhindered brightness. When the scene calls for it, it's there. One of my biggest reservations going back to plasma was the ABL. The 8500 is the only plasma that seems to largely overcome this issue.

Hopefully the pops will be cured and based on those that have the update that addresses pops, apparently it does. smile.gif
post #891 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

We're nitpicking folks!

"The clean, high gradation, low-dither panel driving, outstanding anti-reflective screen coating, sublime black-level performance, suitably bright peak luminance, accurate greyscale, gamma and colour, and lack of any troublesome forced video processing features… all combine to make the Panasonic ZT’s picture quality some of the best we’ve ever seen on a flat-screen HDTV during both daytime and nighttime viewing. For someone with a vested interest in film and high quality reproduction of it in the home, it’s impossible not to get a little emotional at the results this panel produces, but we’ll avoid embarrassing ourselves with a fountain of superlatives, and just provide the facts. You can’t go wrong with any of them, but weighed up subjectively, the strengths of the TXP60ZT65B arguably do make it the best HDTV we’ve ever tested. Of course that doesn’t mean it’s perfect: if you don’t like Panasonic’s approach to panel driving (which, in our opinion, is a great balance between smooth, clean images and sufficient, but not total suppression of false contouring during motion) then you still won’t like the ZT."

What more does anyone want?

I guess the operative phrase is 'suitably' bright peak luminance. Suitable for who? Suitable in what lighting conditions?

My only exposure to the ZT60 was at the Panasonic show and I couldn't really get a handle on that from what they were displaying. The shootout will hopefully address that and the ABL behavior of the ZT60. I'm hoping it trumps the VT60 in that regard. If it's just as aggressive as the VT60s I've seen, then I don't see it as a viable choice for me. The average luminance values are not nearly the concern for me as the behavior of the ABL. I see no issues in the overall brightness of the VT60, but when a signal calls for large expanses of brightness, IMO the image collapses.
post #892 of 1309
You are not "objective" like you always said...you trashing other people display and that's a bad thing...if you think that the F8500 is better is ok buy one but then talk that VT60 Image Collapse...it's ridiculous...save the words buy the samsung and stop trashing other people display...seriously.
post #893 of 1309
"Image collapse" just seems like hyperbole, but who are we to question what he sees? smile.gif
post #894 of 1309
maybe he is having a bad day...this things happen to anyone
post #895 of 1309
Thread Starter 
Has anyone seen an image collapse? Is it like a bad LSD trip?
post #896 of 1309
Well my old CRT Hitachi have an image collapse and then i have to:and voila!!! Fixed
post #897 of 1309
Has anyone seen this review yet on the ZT60/65? http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-txp60zt65b-201305062961.htm
post #898 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Has anyone seen an image collapse? Is it like a bad LSD trip?

If you go back to DLP days the light tunnel could collapse.....

If you dont agree on terminology its one things, but to carry on like this, just adds fuel to the fire (not singeling you out Glas) .......
post #899 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Hopefully the pops will be cured and based on those that have the update that addresses pops, apparently it does. smile.gif

I've heard the exact opposite. Have seen a few people on here who have the update and have reported that watching hockey is the exact same as it was before the update. Not good when they can't even fix the pops. If it wasn't for those, I would have liked that tv, but after seeing it and reading it's been an issue for 3 years, I probably won't even look at Samsung again.
post #900 of 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

I've heard the exact opposite. Have seen a few people on here who have the update and have reported that watching hockey is the exact same as it was before the update. Not good when they can't even fix the pops. If it wasn't for those, I would have liked that tv, but after seeing it and reading it's been an issue for 3 years, I probably won't even look at Samsung again.

No one has the update (that we know of) outside of the CNet review (verified by firmware posted in settings forum there) and RObert from VE.....Everyone else is still waiting and trying to see if the update has been released. The numbers havent followed what was supposed to be released so no one knows what is going on right now.....
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