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Inexpensive: <$2k - 4K TV about to enter US - Page 5

post #121 of 194
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

For DVD's, I got used to jumping to the menu any way I could (which is a real challenge on some of them), going to scene selection, grabbing scene 1, and watching away. "Fast Play" was a half-joke.
If I recall correctly, stop, stop, play is a universal code that should take you directly to the menus on any DVD player. (or most anyway)

Not reliably, no. I've tried all the "tricks", and have had 3 DVD players, and no two of them are the same. Further, don't some disks employ their own programming capable of customizing that?

In any case, I wish I had luck with that one. As it turns out, it's murder to get to the main menu sometimes.

And even so, you still get additional hooey when you chose the "play" option within the menu instead of choosing scene 1.

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But I switched to PC-based playback years ago and never have to deal with that. I love that I can just put a Blu-ray disc in my PC and instantly be watching the film rather than going through adverts and menus.

If that whole thing can be as smooth a process as that, then HTPC's are looking more and more wonderful...
post #122 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

That's because normal people are happy with CD-quality audio (and they should be if science is to be believed - 16/44 should already be beyond the limits of human hearing) and because it required specialized players.

The same problem exists with Blu-ray today as it is - people are happy enough with DVD and Blu-ray requires specialized players. Even if they simply move to a 1080p/4K hybrid disc as I theorized on earlier, it doesn't fix the problem of people still buying DVDs and streaming content in preference to buying Blu-ray. It just means we have an even higher-end format that people don't buy.

Right, so if even high-end customers look askance at the high-end format, then there is a problem. We mostly agree here, by the way.
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You don't think the extras on a DVD/Blu-ray are mainly niche content created for film nerds? How many people in the "mainstream" do you think watch a film again multiple times with the commentaries on (though separate audio tracks hardly take up any space) or go through all the behind the scenes content? It was interesting when DVDs were new, but I never look at any of that stuff these days - even for films I really love. At best it's a waste of my time - time which could be spent watching other films - and at worst, it ruins the magic of the film for me.

I prefer streaming for this reason. No, really, I do. On Vudu or iTunes, I hit play and I get the movie. On BluRay, I put the disc in and I have to fight my way through a bunch of junk to get to the movie. However......

1) I still get BluRays because the quality is typically clearly better. (Oh, and for rentals, they are clearly cheaper: $1.63 for a tax included one-night rental at Redbox vs. $4.99 (iTunes 1080p)/$5.99 (Vudu 1080p) U.S. Even with 15% off iTunes cards, it's hard to justify paying $4.29 for something that's down the street for $1.63 and looks better for the lower price. But I loathe the menus. And I also loathe that not even BluRay has a progress bar when you hit pause -- never an issue with iTunes or Vudu -- but we are seriously digressing...)

2) The studios don't share our opinions about extra. They think it's part of the selling experience and won't believe otherwise.
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

barely
Absolutely no one outside of some fringe shut-ins would care at all.

Ouch.
post #123 of 194
A more serious issue than "can you fit it on a 50GB disk" is, how much detail is present in existing movies? If there isn't 4K worth of detail, then the theoretical benefit of 4K won't be realized, at least not for reissues. That won't stop Hollywood from reissuing everything (including 2K digital movies), but the improvement may indeed be slight compared to player-upscaled 2K.
post #124 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

If that whole thing can be as smooth a process as that, then HTPC's are looking more and more wonderful...
With DVDs, you still have to see the menus, but you can right-click them at any time and select the titles directly from a context menu.
Or if you rip them with a tool such as makeMKV, you end up with an MKV file that contains only the main film and whatever language/subtitle tracks you want. (this does not re-compress the disc, it just extracts it as-is)

With Blu-ray, you don't have to deal with menus at all and can load the film directly.

This all depends on your player, but I use JRiver Media Center. Free alternatives like MPC-HC work too - but you need to be running decryption software such as AnyDVD HD for Blu-rays. The commercial packages (PowerDVD/WinDVD) force you to sit through the ads and deal with menus like any other Blu-ray player.

There are a number of other neat tricks you can do with an HTPC, such as playing back DVD/IVTC content at 24p (though I think there are now a few Sony players that support this too) and playing back PAL (25fps) content at the original 24p speed.
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Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

Can MadVr upscale to 4K with existing hardware?
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't.
post #125 of 194
"Can MadVr upscale to 4K with existing hardware?
.
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

.
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't.

I had been under the impression that MadVR was very GPU intensive and high quality upscaling to 1080p already strained its capabilities.
post #126 of 194
madVR only accepts YCbCr 4:2:0 input and nothing else, according to the Doom9 forum post.
PC and a UHD capable GPU, Up-converting able to UHD, BD player, Receiver or Projector, should be able to do the job where the UHD TV doesn't have internal up-convection scaler.
post #127 of 194
If 50 GB disks are too small for larger movies then can't they split the movie across multiple disks?
post #128 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

If 50 GB disks are too small for larger movies then can't they split the movie across multiple disks?

Yes, they can also send it in cans and we can feed it into the projector one reel at a time.
post #129 of 194
^Lawrence of Arabia didn't fit on one BD. wink.gif Sure, it's the exception, but I'm glad they didn't discard the whole idea because of a few excessively long movies that would not comfortably fit on one disc. If it becomes the norm on more than, say, 10% of the films released on the format, I'd agree it's a step backwards.
post #130 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

I had been under the impression that MadVR was very GPU intensive and high quality upscaling to 1080p already strained its capabilities.
madVR will work with most GPUs. However if you want to use the best scaling quality (though its best is not required to surpass most other players) you will need a real GPU rather than one of the ultra low power fanless things a lot of people are using in HTPCs. (I keep my tower in another room and run HDMI through the walls though)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

madVR only accepts YCbCr 4:2:0 input and nothing else, according to the Doom9 forum post.
That's very old information. It supports just about anything these days. But that alone covers all commercially released video.
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^Lawrence of Arabia didn't fit on one BD. wink.gif Sure, it's the exception, but I'm glad they didn't discard the whole idea because of a few excessively long movies that would not comfortably fit on one disc. If it becomes the norm on more than, say, 10% of the films released on the format, I'd agree it's a step backwards.
The set I have is a dual layer BD for the feature (and they didn't even fill it to capacity) and a 9GB disc for all the extras.
post #131 of 194
I might pick up Sekei's 39" display that's supposed to come out later this year if the price is right. If it's in the $1k range it would be quite impressive.
post #132 of 194
That's right on LoA, Chrono. I have remembered incorrectly. redface.gif
post #133 of 194
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Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

30hz sucks for desktop use, you can try it on your current 1080p display if you don't believe me.

I tried to do just that, but apparently my current monitor (an older 26" viewsonic) doesn't support 30Hz. Either that or the nvidia drivers I'm using don't support it. The closest mode I can get to work is 1080i @ 29Hz, and that flickers like mad due to being interlaced and a non-native resolution. Not really a fair test.

I guess I'll just have to wait until Microcenter gets this (or some panel like this) in stock locally and check it out for myself.

You can add a custom refresh rate, or just use 60hz interlaced which is the same, more or less, as 30hz (your monitor is progressive scan anyway, a 60hz interlaced signal is reconstructed as being 30hz, it's not literally scan line interleaved like old school TVs)
post #134 of 194
For those that are interested in digging behind the surface of the Seiki 50" UHD TV.

Panel identification; http://www.panelook.com/V500DK1-LS1_Innolux_50_LCM_overview_17279.html
Operating system of panel is Linux.
Service menu posted on another forum:
Quote:
Factory service controls with advanced color controls, by input:

Press Menu, then 0000 (four zeros)

Go to "others"

Under Color Temp you can completely program the Gain and Offset for RGB for each of the color temp presets with a save to EEPROM option.

A ton of settings beyond color above that related to TV function - much of stuff I have no idea what it is but likely related to timings and inputs as well as alternate display settings. Maybe some issues can be solved there.
post #135 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Yes, they can also send it in cans and we can feed it into the projector one reel at a time.

?rolleyes.gif
post #136 of 194
^See title under username. wink.gif
post #137 of 194
I just read this thing can do 120fps+ in 1080p for pc games?

I wonder how bad 1080p looks and how much lag?
post #138 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by uuddlrlrbass View Post

I just read this thing can do 120fps+ in 1080p for pc games?

I wonder how bad 1080p looks and how much lag?

Be clear on frame input and "output" (displaying) specifications.
post #139 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by uuddlrlrbass View Post

I just read this thing can do 120fps+ in 1080p for pc games?
I wonder how bad 1080p looks and how much lag?
If they used nearest neighbor resampling it would look identical to a 1080p display with less pixel structure, and that is trivial to compute (1 source pixel = 2x2 4K pixels) so it shouldn't add any lag.
post #140 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by uuddlrlrbass View Post

I just read this thing can do 120fps+ in 1080p for pc games?
Yup, true native 120fps.
HardForum thread

This is an image of 103 Hz under Linux. He was having problems pushing 120Hz without a proper DisplayPort to HDMI adaptor. He finally found one on NewEgg and was able to do 4K@27Hz and 1080p@103Hz. (And a mind-boggling 192Hz during 720p!)
It appears to sync to any refresh rate within the bandwidth limits. Reportedly looked smoother, not frameskipping. (I'd love to see high-speed-video confirmation for 192Hz native refresh rate for 720p -- that is the highest native refresh rate I've ever seen for an LCD)









The adaptors are the tricky part because there isn't yet a DP->HDMI1.4 adaptor that can do the full bandwidth of 4K@30Hz or 1080p@120Hz yet -- but once that comes out on the market, that will make it much easier to test under Linux.

It's easier to get 1080p@120Hz using Windows.

Reportedly less ghosting than a Catleap 2B overclocked monitor (1440p 120Hz overclock available at www.120hz.net), although more ghosting than a LightBoost monitor (LightBoost monitors are the world's clearest motion LCD's, with a true measured MPRT of 1.4ms due to the stroboscopic backlight that massively outperforms most scanning backlights, according to TFTCentral for computer use). But this 4K HDTV

Adjust sharpness to 0, to turn the Seiki 4K HDTV into an interesting PC monitor, also suitable for high-responsiveness low-input-lag gaming. Getting a native 200 Hz refresh rate (non-interpolated) on an LCD may actually be worth the price to some people -- even ignoring the bonus 4K feature which makes photographs rather stunning looking.
Edited by Mark Rejhon - 4/27/13 at 10:43pm
post #141 of 194
Can't wait to see the first person with 3 of these set up for gaming. why buy that 30" when you can get a 50 smile.gif
post #142 of 194
Frame Rating: High End GPUs Benchmarked at 4K Resolutions on the Seiki 50" 4K TV.

Graphics Card
AMD Radeon HD 7990 6GB
AMD Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB
NVIDIA GeForce GTX TITAN 6GB
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 690 4GB
EVGA GeForce GTX 680 4GB
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 2GB
post #143 of 194
I'm interested in this almost solely from a photography standpoint. Even if it can only hit 20-30hz it'd be still be awesome to view my photos on sometimes and then change back to 1080p 120hz. Anyone know if there will be availability in canada?
post #144 of 194
The Seiki SE50UY04 50-Inch 4K 120Hz LED HDTV now cost US $1,099.00. This starts to become ridiculous. Where are all the people that said 4K displays would be too expensive for the next five years?
post #145 of 194
Interesting point. While it may cost a company like Sony more $$ to put the package together it seems that the 4K panel itself is not all that costly. Of course at this time we don't know about the quality of this specific panel or any idea of how much it cost to produce it.
post #146 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Interesting point. While it may cost a company like Sony more $$ to put the package together it seems that the 4K panel itself is not all that costly. Of course at this time we don't know about the quality of this specific panel or any idea of how much it cost to produce it.

A lot of film makers that do post production have bought this and all are surprisingly enthusiastic about it. Particularly when it is properly color calibrated. They don't dare to use it for critical color grading yet, but to edit and set a basic LUT for a project seems to be a pleasure.

Seiki HD TVs has been sold in the US for many years. If one look at the user feedback at Amazon for these HD TVs, they seems to be of good quality.
post #147 of 194
we started selling Seiki as BF specials back in 2011. We expected floods of returns as had been the case with previous BF bargain brands and at first we got a lot--seems there was a master "power saver" switch on most models then that had to be turned on before the set would work. Said switch was sorta hidden on the right back edge of the set and no mention of it was made in the owner's manual so many buyers were unaware of it and thought their sets were defective. Once we discovered this we had very few returns and virtually none for actually defective sets. That switch is being phased out on newer models.

Also unlike most BF bargain brands we're still selling them a year and a half later. We don't carry the 4k model so cant comment on pq.
post #148 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

we started selling Seiki as BF specials back in 2011. We expected floods of returns as had been the case with previous BF bargain brands and at first we got a lot--seems there was a master "power saver" switch on most models then that had to be turned on before the set would work. Said switch was sorta hidden on the right back edge of the set and no mention of it was made in the owner's manual so many buyers were unaware of it and thought their sets were defective. Once we discovered this we had very few returns and virtually none for actually defective sets. That switch is being phased out on newer models.

Also unlike most BF bargain brands we're still selling them a year and a half later. We don't carry the 4k model so cant comment on pq.

"Master Power Saver Switch" == "Prevents the TV from working".

LOL! Notify the EPA. That's an awesome savings of power.
post #149 of 194
The lauded Kuro (9G at least, not sure on the prior panels) has the same mechanism, but the panels sold to the more affluent and/or knowledgeable videophile (not the J6P). I can see where they might have trouble utilizing such a "feature" on a more widely distributed item.
post #150 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

If 50 GB disks are too small for larger movies then can't they split the movie across multiple disks?

You don't have to worry about that because optical disc is dead. Let us not forget what's coming out of the Silicon Valley is dictating what direction the market is going. We saw what Netflix did to B&M video stores. Apple has already axed the optical disc on their stuff. It is companies like Apple, Netflix, Google etc., love or hate them, that has great influence on the market.
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