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There's a new sheriff in town! Inuke DSP 12000 - Page 2

post #31 of 146
1/28/13 at 5:20pm
How low will it go at rated power?

JSS
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post #32 of 146
1/28/13 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I don't see how the 6000 needs a 25 amp circuit when Berry told me the ep4k only draws 5 amps with its old iron psw. I bet if you emailed them and asked it would be much less than a 25 amp circuit needed

the ep4k can do a lot more than 5 amps off a 120v circuit. It does 2200 watts RMS in stereo 2ohm MEASURED http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/0_100#post_10755537
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post #33 of 146
1/28/13 at 5:36pm
I was going to order 2 Sanway amps but will be getting inukes instead. The crap shoot and no warranty is what put me over the edge. It is pretty much a no-brainer to me.
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post #34 of 146
1/28/13 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

There is no such thing as a digital amp. there is however a thing called a smps which has nothing to do with the amp its self.

The amp sections are switching, which seems to me makes them just as digital as the SMPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

I'd still like to see a definitive test, on these SMPS/D amps .... and see their capability in the octaves of interest cool.gif

Not sure what exactly "these" refers to, but on my Peavey ipr 3000 I verified full output power (for a couple of 2nds, didn't want to toast the subs) at 10 Hz..
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

The iNuke 6000 is rated for a 25 amp circuit. 'Full Power' would be 4960 watts draw, an impossibility.

Only impossible for continuous output, which we don't need.

I had my entire system, including Crown K2 amps, 2 kW Buttkicker amp, 7-ch receiver, and I never tripped the 20A breaker, even with the K2 clipping.
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post #35 of 146
1/28/13 at 6:21pm
Sigh
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post #36 of 146
1/28/13 at 6:25pm
Thread Starter 
why sigh Luke?
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post #37 of 146
1/28/13 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

why sigh Luke?

Sanway...a little QC and their reputation would be a lot different!

I had the pleasure of doing A/B testing with dual Caps and the ep4000, ipr 3000, cs 4080hz, AND fp14k clone.

ep4000, for the money, not too bad. However, sounded like mud compared to the ipr 3000 and cs 4080hz. If the inuke's sound anything like the ep4000, people don't know what they're missing.

I guess I'm lucky, two fp14k amps for well over a year and zero issues. The fp14k had better SQ than all of them, and pure insane power. My two 30A circuits beg for mercy!

I don't blame people for not taking the risk, but if you get a good one, there's no going back:D
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post #38 of 146
1/28/13 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

The iNuke 6000 is rated for a 25 amp circuit. 'Full Power' would be 4960 watts draw, an impossibility. One of the issues with Behringer is it's tough sussing out the truth about the specs. I find it odd that power consumption on an iNuke 6000 at 1/8 duty is significantly lower than 1/8 power on a Crown XTi-4002 - which has a lower maximum RMS rating of 1,600 watts/channel.

I am not in any way trying to put down the iNukes, I've had a NU6000DSP in my system and it was a beast. I'll probably buy the iNuke 12000 because it is an amazing value, but that decision will be much harder to justify if I needed a 220 volt line to run it.

Crown XTi
ac Line current (120 Vac amplifier playing
1/8 power pink noise into 4 ohms per ch):
XTi 1002: 6.8A
XTi 2002: 8.3A
XTi 4002: 10.5A = 1155 watts from the wall, with a max rated RMS of 1,600 watts
XTi 6002: 15.3A

The iNuke states the 6000 will draw 1/2 that much power at 1/8 duty - 620 watts - while also claiming to produce 2,100 watts RMS. Anyhow, I would expect a universal power supply and yes, I would expect the NU12000 to be somewhat limited by how much current it can draw from the wall. Having a dedicated 25+ amp circuit can't hurt.

so a 20 amp, 12 gage line (as long as it isn't super long) would comfortably run the NU6000 and may also be fine for all but the highest peaks of the 12000....otherwise 10 gage/30 amp would be the ticket
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post #39 of 146
1/28/13 at 7:13pm
Thread Starter 
Luke,

Not discounting your experience, but it is possible there may have been something wrong with your EP4000.

At the huskeromaha meet in 2011 the EP4000 powered caps (2 ohm stereo) basically tied with Seaton submersive for best of meet by group average scoring. Mud sound doesn't tie with one of the largely regarded finest sounding commercial sub on the market.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1368326/subfest-2011-huskeromaha-and-desertdomes-subwoofer-showdown/0_20
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post #40 of 146
1/28/13 at 7:21pm
one evening tinkering with the DSP and 'm hooked. set the laptop right on top of it and about two minutes later I was tweaking the settings. I second the post regarding how cool the limiter is. And I was reminded how efficient horns are...at 20 Hz sine wave with the limiter set for 10 volts peak, all kinds of pictures and wall hangings are shaking in the house...with the F-20 out in the garage (which is failrly well insulated from the house). As usual, I was much more impressed than the wife.
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post #41 of 146
1/29/13 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

one evening tinkering with the DSP and 'm hooked. set the laptop right on top of it and about two minutes later I was tweaking the settings...

Same here. I love the built in DSP on my nu1000dsp, the gui has a nice layout too. I'll have my omnimic setup running sweeps and eq'ing bass through the behringer in real-time right on my laptop at LP. cool.gif If I end up running more subs (4-8) I'll be trying one of these for sure.
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post #42 of 146
1/29/13 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

the ep4k can do a lot more than 5 amps off a 120v circuit. It does 2200 watts RMS in stereo 2ohm MEASURED http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/0_100#post_10755537

Not according to Behringer. I think your assuming it needs to pull everything of the line. I'm not an electrician, but I'm thinking that's what the transformer and/ or capacitors are for.
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post #43 of 146
1/29/13 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Works in realtime with no 'save' button or upload required. You can set wattage limits, among the other many cool DSP functions. So if your 18" SI driver should only get 600 watts. Set it to get a max of 600 watts. How cool is that? When 600 watts approaches the clip light comes on to indicate you've hit that threshold. I'm using my DSP 3000 now with tactile transducers and the wattage limits are low, so I can set my wattage limit appropriately and know that I'm not exceeding my limits. There may be other amps that do this...I'm just unaware of any -- and certaintly not in the INuke's pricerange. Peavy IPR is a good line, but the DSP is very limited in comparison -- lacking a software interface to your computer alone on the IPR is a fatal flaw.

The real Lab PLM's and iTech's do that (and powersoft's K's too I believe), you can adjust watts, volts and their attack/decay too. They also measure real-time consumption and ohms. They also have all the DSP tricks, including 100mbps CAT networking ability to a PC.
But none of those are in the sub $1000 range... I think Behringer is following in their shadow and gleening idea's.


I couldn't hear any difference in any of the amps I've tried when playing on a subwoofer...
with the exception of where the ULF rolloff starts and their inability to reproduce peaks because of rated power or volts/current delivery.
(That is definately audible.)

It doesn't sound like "mud" to me... they just sound "weaker" to me, because they aren't as powerful and are running out of steam. (Especially on dubstep at max excursion or something).
A $300 amp vs a clone of a $6000 amp is a big difference, it better not sound the same, otherwise something should be wrong or someone is just pocketing our monies. wink.gif
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post #44 of 146
1/29/13 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

The amp sections are switching, which seems to me makes them just as digital as the SMPS.
Not sure what exactly "these" refers to, but on my Peavey ipr 3000 I verified full output power (for a couple of 2nds, didn't want to toast the subs) at 10 Hz..
Only impossible for continuous output, which we don't need.

I had my entire system, including Crown K2 amps, 2 kW Buttkicker amp, 7-ch receiver, and I never tripped the 20A breaker, even with the K2 clipping.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DIGITAL AMPS OR SMPS for that matter ...
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post #45 of 146
1/29/13 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DIGITAL AMPS OR SMPS for that matter ...

There is no such thing as switching mode power supplies? Ehhh!?
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post #46 of 146
1/29/13 at 12:33pm
All-digital amplification exists...

"Like the M2, the C 390DD has no analogue stages in the signal path, keeping music in the digital domain right up to the speaker outputs."
http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier


"The Kratos, unlike conventional amplifiers, handles all signal processing and amplification in the digital domain. It is a fully digital amplification design also known as a 'power DAC' or 'Direct Digital Amplifier'. The design has no A/D conversion, no analog preamp or separate amplifier."
https://coreaudiotechnology.com/products/kratos-digital-amplifiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DIGITAL AMPS OR SMPS for that matter ...

Edited by imagic - 1/29/13 at 12:44pm
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post #47 of 146
1/29/13 at 5:04pm
anyone have any idea what the approx street price will be?
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post #48 of 146
1/29/13 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rr14 View Post

anyone have any idea what the approx street price will be?

>900 b/c of coupons smile.gif
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post #49 of 146
1/29/13 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

>900 b/c of coupons smile.gif

I am guessing the list price will be around $799 and the street price will be about $620 or so.
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post #50 of 146
1/29/13 at 5:51pm
Expected pricing: $999 for the DSP version, $899 without. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1454826/behringer-inuke-12000-megapower-not-megabucks. Those are the MAP (minimum advertised pricing) figures




Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I am guessing the list price will be around $799 and the street price will be about $620 or so.

Edited by imagic - 1/29/13 at 5:57pm
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post #51 of 146
1/29/13 at 5:56pm
And then there's the street prices....
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post #52 of 146
1/29/13 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Expected pricing: $999 for the DSP version, $899 without. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1454826/behringer-inuke-12000-megapower-not-megabucks. Those are the MAP (minimum advertised pricing) figures


Nice find! Amazon discount on iNuke amps is typically 20-40% off. Should put street price in the $600-770 range for DSP and $540-680 range for non-dsp.

I was able to get my NU3000DSP for about 42% of MAP price at Amazon this past Decemeber.
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post #53 of 146
1/29/13 at 6:15pm
That is a nice find. Ebay usually has them even cheaper.
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post #54 of 146
1/29/13 at 8:00pm
when I just bought a 3000DSP, it appeared the MAP had taken a jump. Just a week or so back, it appeared the magic number was $345-ish but then just a few days later, I had trouble finding one for that, the advertised price was more like $400 then you had to use a cupon code to get down somewhat lower...
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post #55 of 146
1/30/13 at 6:09am
Trust me I'd love to replace my clone with something with a warranty, long term proven reliability, etc. but the fact is there is nothing close to the output out there at 8 / 4 ohm stereo at anywhere close to the ~850 price point. frown.gif The speakerpower amps look GREAT, but the uber-power versions which I would be interested in are 2500-3000 dollars which is still a bit out of reach for me right now.
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post #56 of 146
1/30/13 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Trust me I'd love to replace my clone with something with a warranty, long term proven reliability, etc. but the fact is there is nothing close to the output out there at 8 / 4 ohm stereo at anywhere close to the ~850 price point. frown.gif The speakerpower amps look GREAT, but the uber-power versions which I would be interested in are 2500-3000 dollars which is still a bit out of reach for me right now.

Keep in mind that one of the clones still hasn't been tested to see what they really put out. They have had very good reports but no solid testing as of yet. Hopefully it's close to spec but its anyone's guess at the moment. Even the Behringers have a pretty well known output in the past. It's typically about 2/3 of the inflated max ratings.

Doing the bench racing I would think that the Behringer would be very near the output if not matching the clone.
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post #57 of 146
1/30/13 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Trust me I'd love to replace my clone with something with a warranty, long term proven reliability, etc. but the fact is there is nothing close to the output out there at 8 / 4 ohm stereo at anywhere close to the ~850 price point. frown.gif The speakerpower amps look GREAT, but the uber-power versions which I would be interested in are 2500-3000 dollars which is still a bit out of reach for me right now.

who needs warranty you can buy 6 more clones after your first one breaks for the price of a real one lol.
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post #58 of 146
1/30/13 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

Keep in mind that one of the clones still hasn't been tested to see what they really put out. They have had very good reports but no solid testing as of yet. Hopefully it's close to spec but its anyone's guess at the moment. Even the Behringers have a pretty well known output in the past. It's typically about 2/3 of the inflated max ratings.

Doing the bench racing I would think that the Behringer would be very near the output if not matching the clone.

Considering the rated peak power at 4 ohms of either the Inuke6000 or 12000 is 3000 watts (tested at 1800 for the 6000) that isn't very likely. I've used quite a few different (high powered) amps and regardless of what a bench test will show it has substantially more power.
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post #59 of 146
1/30/13 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

who needs warranty you can buy 6 more clones after your first one breaks for the price of a real one lol.

That's kind of been my way of thinking too but even the bargain prices of 850 a pop it can start to get expensive. biggrin.gif I had a connection come loose on one of my terminals shorting the leads and my clone has gone into protection mode. I'm about to find out it has internal fuses/breakers,etc or if it will need parts replaced. Thankfully I have my Crown 5000 as backup in the meantime. biggrin.gif

If I can swing it I will order another amp in the meantime and fix the other to have as a backup. At this point nothing has come close to these amps in terms of 4 ohm output power so even ordering a spare is the cheapest option.
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post #60 of 146
1/30/13 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Considering the rated peak power at 4 ohms of either the Inuke6000 or 12000 is 3000 watts (tested at 1800 for the 6000) that isn't very likely. I've used quite a few different (high powered) amps and regardless of what a bench test will show it has substantially more power.

The Inuke has been tested to put out about 2100 watts per channel into 4 ohms short term with sine waves at the below site. If we extrapolate from that the 12000 could put out over 8kw. I would think the clone does more than this but probably 1-2db more at the most. Of course the Berry has a warranty and DSP at probably a lower price thatn the clone though. It should be a good comparison. We all win when we have more competition!!

http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html
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