AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › There's a new sheriff in town! Inuke DSP 12000
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

There's a new sheriff in town! Inuke DSP 12000 - Page 3

post #61 of 146
1/30/13 at 8:34am
I don't even use all that clone power but it does not rolloff at high levels so if this berry can do that then it seems like an awesome alternative.
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #62 of 146
1/30/13 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

The Inuke has been tested to put out about 2100 watts per channel into 4 ohms short term with sine waves at the below site. If we extrapolate from that the 12000 could put out over 8kw. I would think the clone does more than this but probably 1-2db more at the most. Of course the Berry has a warranty and DSP at probably a lower price thatn the clone though. It should be a good comparison. We all win when we have more competition!!

http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html

That would be sweet if we could extrapolate, but the 4 ohm ratings on the 12000 are exactly the same as the 6000. frown.gif 3000 watts per in 4 ohm stereo, peak is what they are showing in the link for the 12k. It almost seems like they are just beefing up the power supply(s) in the 6000 to make it 2 ohm stereo stable.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/NU12000DSP.aspx
Reply
Reply
post #63 of 146
1/30/13 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I don't even use all that clone power but it does not rolloff at high levels so if this berry can do that then it seems like an awesome alternative.

Werd. If this guy can produce that peak power with some nice RMS and has no rolloff or at least on par with an ep4k, call me interetested. Until then.. this is just an inflated ratings amp that doesn't exist.
Reply
Reply
post #64 of 146
1/30/13 at 11:11am
Thread Starter 
Well - in the meantime - you guys keep buying up six clones and having them break at random intervals with random issues. That plan sounds like a winner! rolleyes.gif Then perhaps plan on buying a new fleet every three to five years because the cheap electronics they use, that they found in the bargain of the month bin, aren't worth replacing the entire guts of the amps with.

I have owned and been disappointed with cheap noname electronics in the past and they've always been a headache. Think about the rash of junk no name HDTVs that die and are thrown away after 3 years. What makes you think that amp will be different? I'd be different if I knew a single person who bought a clone amp and didn't have a problem. I've met, in person, three people who have bought clone amps and EACH has had trouble. (HuskerOmaha, Gorilla83, Popalock). Even if you guys praise them - I'll sound out on some rational sense here. You visit the clone thread and there are guys saying nearly daily that their clone amp bellied up or arrived DOA - and this isn't some miniscule scewed representation percentage of a mass populace who is buying them. Heck the average pro audio and home audio enthusiast doesn't even know these amps exist. Pretty much the guys posting in that very thread are the vast majority of the consumers. The trainwreck you see in that thread is indiciative of a TERRIBLE failure rate which would force a recall on any legitimate peice of electronics.

For the guys who buy the Crown, Crest, Peavy, Yamaha, LG, amps etc ---- they'll still be using them in 20 years, and there are options among these reliable amps like the Cerwin Vega CV5000 or Crown XLS-5000 that aren't prohibitively expensive either --- around $600-$700ish for 5k watts. Why do I think they'll last so long? Look at ebay or craigslist and see just how many 1980's pro amps are out there that the ad says they still work fine, been dj'ing with them for 20 years or they've been used in a church or theater for 20 years, and the business has shut down - etc. How many of those clone amps do you think will still be running in 20 years? Any? I don't know how long the Behringer INuke amps will last in comparison - but Behringer is at least a known and increasingly respected international brand and they do have a solid 3 year warranty, and their existing INuke amps have a solid track record so far. I haven't read of a single failure on a INuke amp yet.

don't get mad - i'm just laying down some sense... I also wish you all the best who have bought them --- I hope they DO last 20 years --- just reading the tea leaves suggests it ain't gonna happen.
Reply
Reply
post #65 of 146
1/30/13 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Well - in the meantime - you guys keep buying up six clones and having them break at random intervals with random issues. That plan sounds like a winner! rolleyes.gif Then perhaps plan on buying a new fleet every three to five years because the cheap electronics they use, that they found in the bargain of the month bin, aren't worth replacing the entire guts of the amps with.

I have owned and been disappointed with cheap noname electronics in the past and they've always been a headache. Think about the rash of junk no name HDTVs that die and are thrown away after 3 years. What makes you think that amp will be different? I'd be different if I knew a single person who bought a clone amp and didn't have a problem. I've met, in person, three people who have bought clone amps and EACH has had trouble. (HuskerOmaha, Gorilla83, Popalock). Even if you guys praise them - I'll sound out on some rational sense here. You visit the clone thread and there are guys saying nearly daily that their clone amp bellied up or arrived DOA - and this isn't some miniscule scewed representation percentage of a mass populace who is buying them. Heck the average pro audio and home audio enthusiast doesn't even know these amps exist. Pretty much the guys posting in that very thread are the vast majority of the consumers. The trainwreck you see in that thread is indiciative of a TERRIBLE failure rate which would force a recall on any legitimate peice of electronics.

For the guys who buy the Crown, Crest, Peavy, Yamaha, LG, amps etc ---- they'll still be using them in 20 years, and there are options among these reliable amps like the Cerwin Vega CV5000 or Crown XLS-5000 that aren't prohibitively expensive either --- around $600-$700ish for 5k watts. Why do I think they'll last so long? Look at ebay or craigslist and see just how many 1980's pro amps are out there that the ad says they still work fine, been dj'ing with them for 20 years or they've been used in a church or theater for 20 years, and the business has shut down - etc. How many of those clone amps do you think will still be running in 20 years? Any? I don't know how long the Behringer INuke amps will last in comparison - but Behringer is at least a known and increasingly respected international brand and they do have a solid 3 year warranty, and their existing INuke amps have a solid track record so far. I haven't read of a single failure on a INuke amp yet.

don't get mad - i'm just laying down some sense... I also wish you all the best who have bought them --- I hope they DO last 20 years --- just reading the tea leaves suggests it ain't gonna happen.

I was skeptical after the first sentence of your post, but you do make a lot of valid points. This is the exact reason why I have not ponied up for a clone amp, I like my stuff to last a long time, and nothing shown so far has indicated that a sanway clone will even last 5 years let alone 20. Who knows though, maybe they will discover what QC means and start sending out a quality product. (highly doubtful) Until then, we will just have to keep track of the failure rate and see how it goes long term.
Reply
Reply
post #66 of 146
1/30/13 at 11:23am


Three people, hmm? Three whole people? Wow. That is a lot. tongue.gif

You know, I still push the Behringer ep4k and I've seen more than three people get defective ones and that design is rock solid. Oh well.

But anyway, it does suck to get a lemon. Especially when there isn't a warranty but the supplier still helps the buyer out. I do and try to avoid all that though which is why I stick with the ep4k's and will be buying a CV5000.


This will be more interesting when this thing exists.
Reply
Reply
post #67 of 146
1/30/13 at 11:25am
"It almost seems like they are just beefing up the power supply(s) in the 6000 to make it 2 ohm stereo stable."

that is how i interpreted it as well. wouldn't it be funny though if there wasn't any difference or if it was something like a higher cfm fan?
Reply
Reply
post #68 of 146
1/30/13 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

That would be sweet if we could extrapolate, but the 4 ohm ratings on the 12000 are exactly the same as the 6000. frown.gif 3000 watts per in 4 ohm stereo, peak is what they are showing in the link for the 12k. It almost seems like they are just beefing up the power supply(s) in the 6000 to make it 2 ohm stereo stable.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/NU12000DSP.aspx

honestly that's probably exactly what they did.
Reply
Reply
post #69 of 146
1/30/13 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Well - in the meantime - you guys keep buying up six clones and having them break at random intervals with random issues. That plan sounds like a winner! rolleyes.gif Then perhaps plan on buying a new fleet every three to five years because the cheap electronics they use, that they found in the bargain of the month bin, aren't worth replacing the entire guts of the amps with.

I have owned and been disappointed with cheap noname electronics in the past and they've always been a headache. Think about the rash of junk no name HDTVs that die and are thrown away after 3 years. What makes you think that amp will be different? I'd be different if I knew a single person who bought a clone amp and didn't have a problem. I've met, in person, three people who have bought clone amps and EACH has had trouble. (HuskerOmaha, Gorilla83, Popalock). Even if you guys praise them - I'll sound out on some rational sense here. You visit the clone thread and there are guys saying nearly daily that their clone amp bellied up or arrived DOA - and this isn't some miniscule scewed representation percentage of a mass populace who is buying them. Heck the average pro audio and home audio enthusiast doesn't even know these amps exist. Pretty much the guys posting in that very thread are the vast majority of the consumers. The trainwreck you see in that thread is indiciative of a TERRIBLE failure rate which would force a recall on any legitimate peice of electronics.

For the guys who buy the Crown, Crest, Peavy, Yamaha, LG, amps etc ---- they'll still be using them in 20 years, and there are options among these reliable amps like the Cerwin Vega CV5000 or Crown XLS-5000 that aren't prohibitively expensive either --- around $600-$700ish for 5k watts. Why do I think they'll last so long? Look at ebay or craigslist and see just how many 1980's pro amps are out there that the ad says they still work fine, been dj'ing with them for 20 years or they've been used in a church or theater for 20 years, and the business has shut down - etc. How many of those clone amps do you think will still be running in 20 years? Any? I don't know how long the Behringer INuke amps will last in comparison - but Behringer is at least a known and increasingly respected international brand and they do have a solid 3 year warranty, and their existing INuke amps have a solid track record so far. I haven't read of a single failure on a INuke amp yet.

don't get mad - i'm just laying down some sense... I also wish you all the best who have bought them --- I hope they DO last 20 years --- just reading the tea leaves suggests it ain't gonna happen.

excellent points about longevity and re-sell value. but there is no proof that the lg clones won't last a long time either.
Reply
Reply
post #70 of 146
1/30/13 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post



Three people, hmm? Three whole people? Wow. That is a lot. tongue.gif

You know, I still push the Behringer ep4k and I've seen more than three people get defective ones and that design is rock solid. Oh well.

But anyway, it does suck to get a lemon. Especially when there isn't a warranty but the supplier still helps the buyer out. I do and try to avoid all that though which is why I stick with the ep4k's and will be buying a CV5000.


This will be more interesting when this thing exists.

I bought mine from a music store, and the guy told me 1/5 they sell are doa, but since it's an actual store they just send it back, and you get a new one that works. When mine came in I went into the store, they opened it up, tested it for me, then I left with it knowing it works.

Also the problem with the ep4k isn't the design, it's just the quality control I think.
Reply
Reply
post #71 of 146
1/30/13 at 11:37am
Right... just like the LG clone. wink.gif

Buuuuuutttt...we still like and recommend the Europower because it is a good, affordable amplifer. Most of the time, it works great.

The thing is, I'm totally with Archaea and I'm not a fan of the overall unreliability of the clones. That scares me off of buying one. I'd rather pick up something that is more rock solid and with an American distributer and warranty. However, buying into the marketing of this new, unreleased amp hook line and sinker isn't all that helpful either. The damn thing does not exist yet.
Reply
Reply
post #72 of 146
1/30/13 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

There is no such thing as a digital amp. there is however a thing called a smps which has nothing to do with the amp its self.

If the power supply is inside the amp, then it is part of the amp, and therefore, it sure does have something to do with it.

Digital, Switching, and Binary are technically three totally different "things" and should not be confused with each other, in the purest sense; (I could explain each of them in detail here but I won't)
,but we still understand what was "implied" by the colloquialism.
Reply
Reply
post #73 of 146
1/30/13 at 3:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post


I truly laughed out loud when I saw that pic.
Quote:
Three people, hmm? Three whole people? Wow. That is a lot. tongue.gif

Well sample size is small, but it is 3 of 3 --- 100% of the three people I actually know from this forum that own a clone amp. So it's not really a bad sample - they all bought them at different times, independantly. If I had three friends that bought a Kia and all had immediate and/or continuing trouble with the car, I'd not be very inclined to buy a Kia. And you know as well as I do that those three weren't extremely vocal about their problem, - they just got it fixed and shrugged it off. A inspection of the thread shows they are certaintly not unique -- IMO the failure rate is ridiculous.

I am of the same mind as stormwind. If I drop money on something I expect it to last. I like overbuilt stuff. If $850 was a drop in the bucket for me - maybe my mindset would change, but then again - perhaps not.

Scott, It sounds like you and I are on the same page on this - I just don't understand how there is so much draw to these things. To steal a Jeremy Clarkson quote - It's like a supermodel that stabs you in the leg each night, is it worth it? How many times will you go to bed with her before you've had enough? tongue.gif
Reply
Reply
post #74 of 146
1/30/13 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post

The fp14k had better SQ than all of them, and pure insane power. My two 30A circuits beg for mercy!

Interesting; what was the quality/quantity of SQ difference between it and the Peavey's?
Reply
Reply
post #75 of 146
1/30/13 at 4:28pm
Archaea,



So let me get this straight.

My clone: $850, + $110 fix it fee for some issue.
Verified to not roll off *significantly* below 20hz.

This amp: $999ish.
Verified to roll off *significantly* below 20hz.

If you are a ported man like Archaea these amps are gold.
If you want full bandwidth, keep shopping with Johnson Tang.


Thanks for playing.

I miss you guys.
Reply
Reply
post #76 of 146
1/30/13 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Archaea,



So let me get this straight.

My clone: $850, + $110 fix it fee for some issue.
Verified to not roll off *significantly* below 20hz.

This amp: $999ish.
Verified to roll off *significantly* below 20hz.

If you are a ported man like Archaea these amps are gold.
If you want full bandwidth, keep shopping with Johnson Tang.


Thanks for playing.

I miss you guys.

You forgot one is legal for sale in the US the other is not.
Reply
Reply
post #77 of 146
1/30/13 at 4:52pm
I'm amazed that you have test results from a yet-to-be-released amplifier. Could you post a link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Archaea,



So let me get this straight.

My clone: $850, + $110 fix it fee for some issue.
Verified to not roll off *significantly* below 20hz.

This amp: $999ish.
Verified to roll off *significantly* below 20hz.

If you are a ported man like Archaea these amps are gold.
If you want full bandwidth, keep shopping with Johnson Tang.


Thanks for playing.

I miss you guys.
Reply
Reply
post #78 of 146
1/30/13 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Archaea,



Verified to not roll off *significantly* below 20hz.

Does anyone have solid numbers to verify what 'significantly' means?

JSS
Reply
Reply
post #79 of 146
1/30/13 at 5:37pm
I don't have any numbers for the unreleased amp of course, the clone has been verified by others and I'm on my phone hard to go find all the links. Can later. Clone is down what....3db at 5hz?

I'm just basing my thoughts off the other models.

Half of this is tongue in cheek but I forgot all my sarcastic smileys. I've been in hibernation from the hobby for too many months.
Reply
Reply
post #80 of 146
1/30/13 at 5:43pm
Andrew, that's a good guess. A beefed up power supply is all that's needed to get to 8KW. The NU6000DSP never heated up, not even slightly when running sine waves near maximum power. Crown uses the exact same electronics through the whole XTi line, with only the 6000 XTi weighing a bit more than the others because of the beefier power supply. I think the power supply is the whole gig when it comes to these amps, the rest of the circuits basically just work as long as you keep them cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

That would be sweet if we could extrapolate, but the 4 ohm ratings on the 12000 are exactly the same as the 6000. frown.gif 3000 watts per in 4 ohm stereo, peak is what they are showing in the link for the 12k. It almost seems like they are just beefing up the power supply(s) in the 6000 to make it 2 ohm stereo stable.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/NU12000DSP.aspx

Edited by imagic - 1/30/13 at 5:49pm
Reply
Reply
post #81 of 146
1/30/13 at 5:43pm
Have there been a ton more clone failures?
Reply
Reply
post #82 of 146
1/30/13 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Archaea,



This amp: $999ish.

Thanks for playing.

I miss you guys.

It won't be anywhere close to $999 street price.
Reply
Reply
post #83 of 146
1/30/13 at 5:54pm
I've just been disappointed with some of the Crowns I've seen where people can't get the down to 5hz results and with similar designs I've just gotten bored seeing another one off and lost hope.

If there comes along something that is the golden ticket, I'm all in.... Obviously wiring almost a grand to a random in China is nerve wracking.
Reply
Reply
post #84 of 146
1/30/13 at 5:57pm
edit: never mind, the question was about the clone. i am sorry
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post



Does anyone have solid numbers to verify what 'significantly' means?

JSS

NU3000 measured -0.5db at 10hz


the problem though it does not maintain full output at low frequencies with 4and 2 Ohm load , the limiters kick in.


Edited by zheka - 1/30/13 at 6:04pm
Reply
Reply
post #85 of 146
1/30/13 at 5:59pm
Thread Starter 
Funny thing is, both Andrew (Gorilla83) and Greg (HuskerOmaha) will defend the Sanway clone even though they had issues. So at least they are enjoying it and who am I to tell you what to love. Just from the outside, looking in, I think you are crazy.

True story:
I was friends with a guy in Highland IL who was stabbed in the leg with a butcher knife by his girlfriend in a argument. He kept her. When he came limping into work after getting hospital stitches, the rest of us coworkers were like...um. lose her and find a new girl who won't stab you in the leg when she's mad. He was like no, I love her man. MAYBE, Gorilla83 and HuskerOmaha are just like that old coworker.

I ain't mad at ya
Got nothing but love for ya
Do your thing boy
Reply
Reply
post #86 of 146
1/30/13 at 6:04pm
as a bass player thats stuck in the 60s - 70s I cant STAND behringer. I would trust pyles specs before I trusted behringers. . . .

DSP on a cerwin vega 5000 would be perfection. . .
Reply
Reply
post #87 of 146
1/30/13 at 6:10pm
Thread Starter 
Popalock told me at the Gorilla83 meet that he couldn't tell much if any difference between the inuke 6000 and his clone on his pair of LMS-5400.


Not sure if he ever measured them a/b or still feels the same way, but I didn't feel he was that excited about the clone when we talked when compared to the inuke 6000.
Reply
Reply
post #88 of 146
1/30/13 at 6:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey_face View Post

as a bass player thats stuck in the 60s - 70s I cant STAND behringer. I would trust pyles specs before I trusted behringers. . . .

DSP on a cerwin vega 5000 would be perfection. . .

Either behringer has come a long way, or pyles completely lost their way because Pyle has been absolute garbage for at least a decade - I say this as a former Pyle sub and amp owner.

Case in point

http://www.amazon.com/PT8000CH-8000-Watt-Channel-Stereo-Amplifier/dp/B002UL0XIQ


Read the reviews on that puppy.
Reply
Reply
post #89 of 146
1/30/13 at 6:24pm
Besides being a different amp, do you consider -.5db at 10 hz to be an issue? I'd consider that proof of how good it is for the price, that iNuke 3000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

edit: never mind, the question was about the clone. i am sorry
NU3000 measured -0.5db at 10hz


the problem though it does not maintain full output at low frequencies with 4and 2 Ohm load , the limiters kick in.


Edited by imagic - 1/30/13 at 6:35pm
Reply
Reply
post #90 of 146
1/30/13 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Either behringer has come a long way, or pyles completely lost their way because Pyle has been absolute garbage for at least a decade - I say this as a former Pyle sub and amp owner.

Case in point

http://www.amazon.com/PT8000CH-8000-Watt-Channel-Stereo-Amplifier/dp/B002UL0XIQ


Read the reviews on that puppy.

" maybe they take their "peak" power when its struck by lightning " LOL
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › There's a new sheriff in town! Inuke DSP 12000