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Sony HW50 Projector issue

post #1 of 14
1/28/13 at 12:42pm
Thread Starter 
I'm having a problem getting my screen lined up correctly. I have included a pic below. The problem I am running into is, the screen is even along the bottom (i do get a slight arch on the bottom middle of the screen) but the top is where I am having issues. The top right fits perfectly. But, then it starts to drop off to the left. I measured the drop from right to left and it measures about 2".

I thought it might be the trapezoid effect and I tried to fix it via that but didn't make much headway. I also tried the roll from the actual mount which got the bottom of the screen aligned evenly, but I still have issues at the top.

Anyone have any advice?

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post #2 of 14
1/28/13 at 1:00pm
The projector is perfectly level on every axis and lined up perfectly with the screen? Is the screen perfectly level and does it lay perfectly flat? Are you using any keystone correction on the projector?
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post #3 of 14
1/28/13 at 1:17pm
Thread Starter 
The screen is perfectly level and lays perfectly flat. I messed with the keystone correction but didnt have any luck with that as well.
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post #4 of 14
1/28/13 at 1:26pm
What about the projector? It needs to be perpendicular to the screen (perfectly) and it also needs to be level (perfectly) if you want it to line up right. If by your judgement it looks perfect, or about as perfect as you can get and you're still having issues you may want to contact Sony. Maybe something is off with the projector itself.
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post #5 of 14
1/28/13 at 3:25pm
First the projector does not have to be level. It can point up or down. What it must do is to make the lens perfectly parallel to the screen. But the screen surface must perfectly be a plane. It looks like the left edge is not lying on the plane. It looks like a point on the left edge is bulged. Shim the screen frame to make a plane and then adjust the up down tilt and the axil spin so the lens is parallel to that plane. You should never ever use a level on a projector. Never. Use a level to make the top of the screen frame level and then a plumb bob and a laser to insure the screen surface is planar.Your left edge looks like it is bulged towards the projector. Tilting the projector left right just aligns the top edge with the top edge of the screen surface. Keystone should never, ever be used.Your wall may be bulged. If you need help or don't understand please give me a call[
Edited by mark haflich - 1/28/13 at 4:46pm
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post #6 of 14
1/28/13 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

What about the projector? It needs to be perpendicular to the screen (perfectly) and it also needs to be level (perfectly) if you want it to line up right. If by your judgement it looks perfect, or about as perfect as you can get and you're still having issues you may want to contact Sony. Maybe something is off with the projector itself.
Don't use the keystone. In the end it affects picture quality and 99% of the time isn't necessary. As posted above the screen needs to be level across the width and more importantly plumb top to bottom and screen material should hang flat. If that is done, you should be able to square up the image by using adjustments on the projector mount coupled with the lens offset controls. I took the liberty of posting a cut and paste of a post by Mark Haflich in the HW30 thread regarding alignment of a projector. I think it explains the process well:

" No professional mounter would EVER use a level on the projector. You hang the screen and put a level on top of the frame to make sure it is horizontally level. That's it. Put the level away.

You tilt the projector up or down to make the top and bottom of the rectangle the same length. You bank the projector left or right to make the top edge parallel to the frame. You zoom the picture in a bit to se the projected edges a little inside of the frame and then zoom out later. If the side edges are tiltedyou need to rotate the projector so they are no longer tilted. As stated above, you are making the lens pasrallel horizontally by this rotation. both sides of the lens will now be the same distance from the screen. Titlting the projector up down does the same for the top and bottom of the lens. Obviously to center the whole rectangle you will probably need to use some lens shift vertically. try not to mount the projector any higher than lens center at top of viewing screen height. Try not to use horizontal lens shift y mounting the lens center in the horizontal screen center. If you don't understand all this, please give me a call tomorrow morning.

The reason no levels are used is that your wall is probably not exactly level vertically or even square to the side walls. You are adjusting the projector orientation to msake the lens exactly parallel to the plane of the screen. "
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post #7 of 14
1/28/13 at 4:49pm
The reason you don't want to use keystone adjust is that that adjustment scalls the picture horizontally by various amounts vertically. It is a scale way beyiond the ability of the scalers in projectors and causes loss of resoltion and sharpness. Try switching it on a few clicks and off. You will see what I meani
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post #8 of 14
1/28/13 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsbuyer View Post

Don't use the keystone. In the end it affects picture quality and 99% of the time isn't necessary. As posted above the screen needs to be level across the width and more importantly plumb top to bottom and screen material should hang flat. If that is done, you should be able to square up the image by using adjustments on the projector mount coupled with the lens offset controls. I took the liberty of posting a cut and paste of a post by Mark Haflich in the HW30 thread regarding alignment of a projector. I think it explains the process well:

" No professional mounter would EVER use a level on the projector. You hang the screen and put a level on top of the frame to make sure it is horizontally level. That's it. Put the level away.

You tilt the projector up or down to make the top and bottom of the rectangle the same length. You bank the projector left or right to make the top edge parallel to the frame. You zoom the picture in a bit to se the projected edges a little inside of the frame and then zoom out later. If the side edges are tiltedyou need to rotate the projector so they are no longer tilted. As stated above, you are making the lens pasrallel horizontally by this rotation. both sides of the lens will now be the same distance from the screen. Titlting the projector up down does the same for the top and bottom of the lens. Obviously to center the whole rectangle you will probably need to use some lens shift vertically. try not to mount the projector any higher than lens center at top of viewing screen height. Try not to use horizontal lens shift y mounting the lens center in the horizontal screen center. If you don't understand all this, please give me a call tomorrow morning.

The reason no levels are used is that your wall is probably not exactly level vertically or even square to the side walls. You are adjusting the projector orientation to msake the lens exactly parallel to the plane of the screen. "

Yes, I'm aware of all of that. But if the screen is level and the projector isn't level with the screen that can cause issues. If the projector is tilted and not vertically level then that will cause it to throw an image that won't match up with the screen. I wasn't advocating him to use keystone. I asked because I wanted to make sure it was off. If the projector isn't perpendicular it will cause issues too.

In this case as Mark has pointed out, the screen is probably not flat against the wall in one corner or there is an issue with the wall itself.
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post #9 of 14
1/28/13 at 5:54pm
Seegs. You are misusing the word level as to the screen. The lens on the projector must be absolutely parallel to the screen surface and the screen surface must lie in one plane. The only way the word level can be applied to a screen is that the screen frame top be level. But the projectr can be tilted up or down as long as the lens is parallel to the screen surface. It is not likely that one's screen wall is precisely at 90 degrees from the ceiling. This isn't arguable. YOU DO NOT WANT TO LEVEL THE PROJECTOR. If you do it will be very unlikey that it would then be parallel to the screen. Follow my quoted instructions. If you end up with a perfect rectangle mimicking the screen edges you will have achieve perfect parallelism. If an edge is curved, the screen is not occupying a single plane and you must shim the screen frame against the wall to achieve this. then readjust the projector to make the lens parallel vertically and horizontally.

You are a bright contributor on AV Science Forum but you are wrong here.
Edited by mark haflich - 1/28/13 at 6:04pm
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post #10 of 14
1/28/13 at 6:36pm
Maybe I'm confusing words here. How would you describe a projector that is mounted like the picture below in comparison to a screen laid perfectly flat 90 degrees from the ceiling. Can't the projector's lens (considering that it's round) also be 90 degrees from the ceiling and the light coming out be perpendicular to the screen and still have an issue like this? What word would you use to fix this issue? I've been using level but I guess that isn't correct?

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post #11 of 14
1/28/13 at 7:17pm
IF the screen has the same tilt, bottom out further than the top, it would be parallel in the vertical dimension. Obviously your mount picture an extreme illustration, but let's say the screen is tilted down from the top 2 degrees. The mount would then be tilted up 2 degrees and all would be right. definately not parallel to the ceiling. The projected image will tell you when things are right. Zoom down and make the picture slightly smaller than the inside of the screen frame. make a perfect rectangle mimicking the frame. Seegs. Feel free to call if you want to discuss. I have installed approximatel 500 to 1000 projectors over my life time.
Edited by mark haflich - 1/28/13 at 7:41pm
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post #12 of 14
1/28/13 at 7:25pm
I'm not saying you're incorrect. I was just confused haha. smile.gif
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post #13 of 14
1/29/13 at 6:27am
Thread Starter 
Ok..i have read everything here and you guys definitely know your stuff. The screen isn't mounted (sorry I probably should have said this first off) yet as we are waiting to finish a few things up in the room and I didn't want it getting messed up or dirty.

We measured the wall opening and its perfectly square. I will mount the screen within the next 2 weeks and make sure its perfectly level and report back. I still think id have the same issue once the screen is mounted
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post #14 of 14
1/29/13 at 6:39am
No you won't. The opening is irrelevant. You must mount the screen so that the frame lies in one plane. No bulges in the frame etc. The larger the frame, the more likely it won't lie completerly flat. You must shim it to make it completerly flat. Not just flat to you but say within 1/8 or so of an inch. put a level on the top of the frame and make sure it is level just like you put a level on the top opening of your cut out.

That's it. All other adjustments are done with the projector mount and be sure to use a pole, no matter how short so you can rotate the projector right left. Critical to getting the image square. Do not rotate to center the image. Under no conditions do this. Either add a lens shift bracket to your mount, remount if needed, or use a click or so of horizontal lens shift. You should have no problems. Thr up down tilt will equalize the disparity in top and bottom edge lemgths and the rotation around the pole will equalize the disparity in side edge lengths. The left right tilt adjustment will msake the top edge track the top inside edge of the frame. Good luck.
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