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Better Sound or 2.35 Screen?

post #1 of 24
1/28/13 at 9:49pm
Thread Starter 
I'm was all but settled on going CIH until I realized that I may sacrificing acoustics. My screen wall is 155" wide. If I go too wide my speakers will be very close to the side walls and may degrade sound quality. If I give my speakers some room, the screen will be small, especially for 16/9.

Should I be concerned with speaker placement or should I go with a larger screen?

This has all got me considering 16/9 again.
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post #2 of 24
1/28/13 at 9:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldstate View Post

I'm was all but settled on going CIH until I realized that I may sacrificing acoustics. My screen wall is 155" wide. If I go too wide my speakers will be very close to the side walls and may degrade sound quality. If I give my speakers some room, the screen will be small, especially for 16/9.

Should I be concerned with speaker placement or should I go with a larger screen?

This has all got me considering 16/9 again.

I would go with an acoustic scope screen if I was you and get the main speakers in good postions.
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post #3 of 24
1/28/13 at 10:02pm
Thread Starter 
I was trying to avoid an acoustic screen for several reasons.


I'm also getting a new receiver; Marantz 7007. I haven't ought a receiver in 10 years. Are the new room correction programs good enough to compensate ?
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post #4 of 24
1/29/13 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldstate View Post

I was trying to avoid an acoustic screen for several reasons.

Why is that? With a good AT screen there really aren't any sonic detriments, in fact sound can actually be better since you can treat your whole front wall instead of having a giant acoustically reflective surface at the front. IMO scope with an AT screen is the "ultimate" in home theater. There's really no audio sacrifice with a good woven screen (like SMX, Seymour AV, etc), and you can have a better treated room. Plus you get that awesome wall-to-wall movie theater like experience.

Really the only downside is that you can't get the high-gain materials so you need more horsepower to light the screen, which can be an issue for large screen sizes and smaller budgets.
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post #5 of 24
1/29/13 at 10:27am
Thread Starter 
I'll look into it again. One of the issues is that my viewing distance is fixed at 12 feet. I'm afraid it will bring the screen to close and cause strainir see pixels. I'm was going to order a Panny ae8000 this week and use the zoom feature.
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post #6 of 24
1/29/13 at 11:32am
Can you go above your speakers? I go above 3 short towers in the front and it works well. It is a perfect height for the back row and just a tad high for the front but I get speakers where I want them and as wide as I want it.

My front row is 13.5 feet and I agree it would get weird and close to put in a acoustically transparent screen. If I need to make a fundamental leap in size (maybe for 4k in the distance future) I will buy a shorter LCR setup, but what I have now has worked well for a long time.

Have Fun!
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post #7 of 24
1/29/13 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmannth View Post

Can you go above your speakers? I go above 3 short towers in the front and it works well. It is a perfect height for the back row and just a tad high for the front but I get speakers where I want them and as wide as I want it.

My front row is 13.5 feet and I agree it would get weird and close to put in a acoustically transparent screen. If I need to make a fundamental leap in size (maybe for 4k in the distance future) I will buy a shorter LCR setup, but what I have now has worked well for a long time.

Have Fun!

Unfortunately I'm limited by the room. I have boexed out heating ductwork so the top of the screen cant be more than 6'6" high.

Is 10" to close to have the speakers from the side walls? Will the audio correction in the Marantz 7007 really take care of that?
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post #8 of 24
1/29/13 at 3:49pm
Put the speaker there and see what it sounds like to YOUR ears in your room. I would tend to think you are corner loading a good bit but there are alot of factors in play. Trust YOUR ears.

How far out do you have to come out to get in front of the HVAC?
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post #9 of 24
1/29/13 at 5:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmannth View Post

Put the speaker there and see what it sounds like to YOUR ears in your room. I would tend to think you are corner loading a good bit but there are alot of factors in play. Trust YOUR ears.

How far out do you have to come out to get in front of the HVAC?

The ductwork runs on the right side of the ceiling so the ceiling is if her onthe left. I build a soffit about a 18" out from the screen wall to make it look nicer and so I could have curtains.

I'm in the final stages of finishing the theater area and the basement. It's not the ideal placement but it was the only way to do it.

I just took some measurement and a acoustic screen is a no go.
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post #10 of 24
1/29/13 at 8:26pm
Yes, your speakers will probably have a mid-bass / bass boost due to the corner placement. Yes, the Audyssey room EQ in the Marantz can help overcome this particular issue.
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post #11 of 24
1/29/13 at 8:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post

Yes, your speakers will probably have a mid-bass / bass boost due to the corner placement. Yes, the Audyssey room EQ in the Marantz can help overcome this particular issue.

So, if I go with a 128" 2:35 it will give me 18.6" from the wall to edge of the image. My speakers are 9" wide Klipsch RF 3 II. That would give me 9.6 of space from the edge of the speaker to the wall. I have much more flexibility as far as the distance from the rear wall.

So my question now is - Do I go with the 128" screen and try to adjust sound with acoustic treatments and the Audyssey or do I go with a smaller screen...or even a 16:9 and give my speakers more room.?

Thanks for all the help so far
Edited by Oldstate - 1/29/13 at 9:28pm
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post #12 of 24
1/31/13 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldstate View Post

I was trying to avoid an acoustic screen for several reasons.

Why is that? With a good AT screen there really aren't any sonic detriments, in fact sound can actually be better since you can treat your whole front wall instead of having a giant acoustically reflective surface at the front. IMO scope with an AT screen is the "ultimate" in home theater. There's really no audio sacrifice with a good woven screen (like SMX, Seymour AV, etc), and you can have a better treated room. Plus you get that awesome wall-to-wall movie theater like experience.

Really the only downside is that you can't get the high-gain materials so you need more horsepower to light the screen, which can be an issue for large screen sizes and smaller budgets.

I strongly "echo" what stranger89 posted.

I've got a 130" curved scope screen using DW laminate, and it does reflect the surround back speakers (located on back wall) into the front rows as focused point sources, there is nothing I can do about that until I go AT, planned 2015.

Not a deal breaker, but now that I know it I can hear it and localize it when I sit in those 2 seats and move my head.
I found them by accident, not doing ETC charts rather plain old SPL level checks, and moved my head and cound hear the sound up/down along a narrow portion in each of 2 seats.
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post #13 of 24
1/31/13 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldstate View Post

So, if I go with a 128" 2:35 it will give me 18.6" from the wall to edge of the image. My speakers are 9" wide Klipsch RF 3 II. That would give me 9.6 of space from the edge of the speaker to the wall. I have much more flexibility as far as the distance from the rear wall.

So my question now is - Do I go with the 128" screen and try to adjust sound with acoustic treatments and the Audyssey or do I go with a smaller screen...or even a 16:9 and give my speakers more room.?

Thanks for all the help so far

Without seeing and hearing your specific room it's hard to make a judgement. Almost every room on the planet will benefit from acoustic treatments, so you should be considering those no matter where your speakers are going. Lots of great acoustics videos at www.realtraps.com that help make sense of all of this.

Audyssey can compensate for the corner boost without any problem.
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post #14 of 24
1/31/13 at 2:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post

Without seeing and hearing your specific room it's hard to make a judgement. Almost every room on the planet will benefit from acoustic treatments, so you should be considering those no matter where your speakers are going. Lots of great acoustics videos at www.realtraps.com that help make sense of all of this.

Audyssey can compensate for the corner boost without any problem.

Thanks for the link. An accoustic screen is not an option so I think I will just test it out before I commit to the screen. There are enough irregular surfaces to create issues no matter what.

Unfortunately the area where I'm building this is not ideal but its the only place for it.
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post #15 of 24
1/31/13 at 6:06pm
With 155" width and limited height, I would go with an AT scope screen. Your 16:9 is already limited due to the height, so why limit your width also? With this setup you would get the best HT presentation. Your speakers would be at the correct height and spacing. Why do you say AT is not an option?
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post #16 of 24
1/31/13 at 6:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

With 155" width and limited height, I would go with an AT scope screen. Your 16:9 is already limited due to the height, so why limit your width also? With this setup you would get the best HT presentation. Your speakers would be at the correct height and spacing. Why do you say AT is not an option?

An AT screen is not an option because my viewing disance is fixed and already only 12 feet from the wall. I built a soffit about 16" out from the wall that meets the framed out ductwork.

If I hung an AT screen I would have to have the speakers about 4" from the wall which is probably worse than having them too close the wall.

Also, an AT screen brings in a whole new wrinkle as far as masking or curtains .

You are right on the 16:9 screen as height is really limiting me to a 110" screen. If I use a 125 -128" scope screen my 16:9 Mage will be 100". I think I would rather have the wider screen than the extra 10" for TV.
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post #17 of 24
1/31/13 at 6:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

With 155" width and limited height, I would go with an AT scope screen. Your 16:9 is already limited due to the height, so why limit your width also? With this setup you would get the best HT presentation. Your speakers would be at the correct height and spacing. Why do you say AT is not an option?

If I hang an AT screen my speaker will be only a few inches from the rear wall which is just as bad.
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post #18 of 24
1/31/13 at 6:48pm
Are your mains rear ported?
Ok, I see they are big floor standing and hard to tuck behind a screen unless you say put them on a stage/ pedestal and angle them down slightly to mlp.
Also they are "Bass reflex via rear-mounted port".
Still, consider to temp put them in that position and see if 3-4 inch away is enough for the rear ports in your current set up.
Edited by mtbdudex - 1/31/13 at 6:55pm
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post #19 of 24
1/31/13 at 7:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Are your mains rear ported?
Ok, I see they are big floor standing and hard to tuck behind a screen unless you say put them on a stage/ pedestal and angle them down slightly to mlp.
Also they are "Bass reflex via rear-mounted port".
Still, consider to temp put them in that position and see if 3-4 inch away is enough for the rear ports in your current set up.

Rear ported Klipsch Ref towers. Just looked at soffit. It's 12" so the speakers would be about 2" from the wall. Klipsch recommends 24" eek.gif
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post #20 of 24
2/1/13 at 8:21am
Klipsch recommends that to avoid the boundary boost, which Audyssey should correct.

Can you set up the speakers and receiver before you decide on a screen in order to play around with your setup?
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post #21 of 24
2/1/13 at 8:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post

Klipsch recommends that to avoid the boundary boost, which Audyssey should correct.

Can you set up the speakers and receiver before you decide on a screen in order to play around with your setup?

I can, but I'm really hoping I can get good sound with the Audyssey and some sound treatments. I have some diverse angles and walls because of the room and ductwork. Not sure if that will help or hurt.
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post #22 of 24
2/1/13 at 12:07pm

My personal preference leans towards video, so the larger the screen the better and scope screen definitely.  As long as your intended pj has the horsepower to light the screen to satisfactory levels and still provide black levels suitable to your tastes and viewing. I've placed my Onix Rocket 1000 towers closer to the walls to get a 120" wide scope screen in a 14ft wide room.  I have an avr with audyssey xt32 that handled the set up very nicely.

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post #23 of 24
2/1/13 at 12:56pm
Thread Starter 
That's good to hear. I have a Panasonic ae8000u so it should've bright enough.

How far do you sit from the 120" screen? Do you feel it big enough? wink.gif
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post #24 of 24
2/1/13 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldstate View Post

That's good to hear. I have a Panasonic ae8000u so it should've bright enough.

How far do you sit from the 120" screen? Do you feel it big enough? wink.gif

 

My eyes are 13.5 ft from the screen, I mask the scope down to 91 x 51 for hdtv. This is in a bat cave and my screen is only 1.1 which musters 14ft after calibration on my Sony vw95.  The size for both hdtv and scope movies is most satisfying and of course more is always better, right??!!.  I've been tempted to bump up the screen width to 136" but that would only leave 16 inches on either side of the screen for the 51' tower speakers which I relented and figured they would be too close to the side walls even toed in as I have them now. I could easily move them there now and recalibrate the speakers to see how they would sound but moreso I'm concerned about the drop off in brightness which it seems when moving up to screens larger than 10-12 feet wide that only the uber expensive DLPs and the new Sony 4K can light up to get that 'pop' and still have great black levels, at least for non high gain screens.

 

To answer your question if I feel it is big enough...I do...but if I could get a pj that I could maintain a 1-1.3 gain screen and provide even higher brightness with reference black levels at price in the sub 15K range I'd probably get the larger screen provided the tower speakers sounded reasonably balanced closer to the side walls.

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