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OPTOMA HD25 HD25LV new budget 2D 3D DLP FULL projector - Page 18

post #511 of 549
Colorspace is set to AUTO, but i tryed to set it to RGB full, limited and YUV but didn't change anything for the green, only blue and red was moving on the CIE. (of course i set it accordingly on the computer)
Tryed another graphics card too, but it's the same.

So if it's not a problem with my sensor, then it's my projector that have a problem i supose ! Bad. I don't see myself telling optoma support that my green is not good.. i don't think they will do something in order to fix this !

Just thinking about something, i'm using a white wall for projection, but a white that is quiet warm in color. Sure it should have an impact on color, but an impact on the green that much, is it possible ? I already tryied to mesure the CIE with the sensor facing the lens (with diffusor attached), but didn't see a much of a difference, but not sure if i did it well.
post #512 of 549
Wonder any of you aware of this..

HD25e uses a 190W bulb - 2800 lumens and it's cheaper than HD25
HD25 uses a 240W bulb - 2000 lumens

HD25e actually use a color wheel made up of RGBCYW (W stands of white), which is the trick and the reason why a 190W bulb can achieve higher lumens of 2800.
While HD25 color wheel made up of RGBRGB, better, perhaps relatively fuller color reproduction than the above.

Below is the picture from china site.


And meanwhile i came across this thread - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1458068/how-bright-are-your-colors

Any of us who viewed the above models, welcome to leave your thoughts of it.
post #513 of 549
When looking at you picture, that's what i'm seeing now that i've more or less calibrated my projector (at 75% saturation except green, 100% is off for all colors), picture looks dull..

I think you pointed out where is the problem. That's too bad, i think all I have to do is try to sell it..
post #514 of 549
Hi 2 all!

Guys, anybody have Optoma HD30 here? I replace my old Optoma HD20 to Optoma HD30 and now strongly need in advice how exactly on setting for 2D cinema mode. Cause right now its not calibrated at all frown.gif
post #515 of 549
Just wanted to drop in this thread and give my impressions on the HD25LV. My projector for the past 3 years or so had been an Optama HD66 (which I enjoyed very much). The upgrade between the two however is really striking. The HD25's light output is so much great that darker scenes in TV shows I often watch (like Arrow,Supernatural, etc) have much more detail and clarity than before. Some of this is due I'm sure to the upgrade from 720p to 1080p as well. You can have tons of ambient light and still have a usable picture. The 3D is much brighter and detailed as well (using RF).

Overall, very pleased with the upgrade and I should be good to go until 4K becomes the norm.
post #516 of 549

Just returned my W1070 and got HD25e due to bad brightness uniformity and lots of dust blobs that somehow got on to the dlp chip or the glass in front of it. 

 

First impressions when comparing the two:

 

Optoma has a lot worse sharpness than Benq. Can't get the top and bottom of the screen sharp it's either one or the other. ( and no it's not due to bad projector/screen positioning tried repositioning and was always the same.)

Colours on the optoma are very bad compared to Benq or my Panasonic plasma tv. Tried many settings posted here and can never come close to what Benq  had out of the box not to mention when calibrated.

Horrible colours gradient which annoys me the most especially on blue. It almost looks like it's 16bit not 32.

So I'm very disappointed with this projector especially that it was 100£ more expensive than W1070.

The only improvement over W1070 is better brightness uniformity.

Don't understand people who say it's better then Benq...

post #517 of 549
Had the same experience. I really don't get it why Benq can't acknowledge and fix the brightness uniformity problems. Would be a stellar projector then. Got myself an Epson TW9200 now.
post #518 of 549
I think you should continue to work with your positioning. The Optoma can be unforgiving if not placed within an inch of its correct height based on your position. I have mine mounted to the ceiling upside down and until I was really close to the 9 inches above the screen as it recommends I also had some minor blurring at the edges. If you get it dialed in and calibrate the image it really is a great projector for medium light theater! Granted it really pops off the screen if you can control your light source but I have a sliding door in the rear side of my space as well as a kitchen area with full light behind my theater room and with daylight and bulb light from those two areas I still get a great picture! I will say the blacks could be a bit darker but aside from that one thing this is a Fantastic projector for it's price class! (Optoma HD25, not even the brighter versions!)
post #519 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapino View Post

Had the same experience. I really don't get it why Benq can't acknowledge and fix the brightness uniformity problems. Would be a stellar projector then. Got myself an Epson TW9200 now.

TW9200 that's a totally different league it's almost 5x the price of W1070 in the shop I bought my W1070 from.

post #520 of 549
Yeah I know. In fact, I'm bringing my TW9200 back in a few days to get the TW9200W so I can get rid of all my cable mess.
post #521 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrackin View Post

I think you should continue to work with your positioning.

And what about the colour gradient.? Can anything be done about that.? W1070 had nothing like that.

post #522 of 549
If there is any way to snap a couple pics with your phone of your space and what the screen looks like it would help me to see what you are explaining. I never noticed a color gradient whatsoever in mine. If you check through my posts on here I believe there is one that has a set of great calibration settings for a fresh bulb. Maybe try those settings and then work to get that position nailed down. I am using an Elite screen, pretty budget (250.00) I believe so unless you are using a sheet or the wall you should not get color variation from the top to bottom or side to side. Try putting a solid color on the screen, I don't remember if there is a test pattern that is solid but you could pop in a blu ray and pause on one of the green preview screens and use that to help you guide the image into place and it will help show if there is variation.
post #523 of 549
You need to contact Optoma support to get the lens changed - there is a known problem with focus uniformity which is why you can't get top and bottom focused the same.
post #524 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Day View Post

You need to contact Optoma support to get the lens changed - there is a known problem with focus uniformity which is why you can't get top and bottom focused the same.

If I decide to keep it I will contact them. I have noticed that pushing the lens a bit upwards does help with focus so at the moment I have a bit of cardboard between lens and casing pushing it up.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrackin View Post

If there is any way to snap a couple pics with your phone of your space and what the screen looks like it would help me to see what you are explaining. I never noticed a color gradient whatsoever in mine. If you check through my posts on here I believe there is one that has a set of great calibration settings for a fresh bulb. Maybe try those settings and then work to get that position nailed down. I am using an Elite screen, pretty budget (250.00) I believe so unless you are using a sheet or the wall you should not get color variation from the top to bottom or side to side. Try putting a solid color on the screen, I don't remember if there is a test pattern that is solid but you could pop in a blu ray and pause on one of the green preview screens and use that to help you guide the image into place and it will help show if there is variation.

I will try to post some photos tomorrow of it but for some reason I can't get good looking pictures of the screen whether I'm using my phone or Nikon D90 dslr camera.

They all look like rainbow..

My screen is diy mdf board painted white matt. 

 Will paint it with black widow when auto air aluminium gets delivered.

 

Pictures taken from the distance are looking fine though..


Edited by Dom Sad - 3/14/14 at 11:02am
post #525 of 549
Well from the snapshot I would say your projector appears to be positioned correctly in height. If it is a known issue then I would contact them; I may have just lucked out on getting a projector that was made properly. It is difficult to see any color changes but with DIY MDF screen it may be harder to get even coloring because of any inconsistencies in the board texture itself. I am not versed in the DIY screen side so if you can get good pics maybe post a question on the DIY thread and see if those problems can occur with solid board screens. I'm sorry I can't be of more assistance here!
post #526 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrackin View Post

Well from the snapshot I would say your projector appears to be positioned correctly in height. If it is a known issue then I would contact them; I may have just lucked out on getting a projector that was made properly. It is difficult to see any color changes but with DIY MDF screen it may be harder to get even coloring because of any inconsistencies in the board texture itself. I am not versed in the DIY screen side so if you can get good pics maybe post a question on the DIY thread and see if those problems can occur with solid board screens. I'm sorry I can't be of more assistance here!

It's visible on colours that go from bright to dark like you can see steps between them where it should be smooth and invisible.

It's like when you set your Windows desktop to 16bit although it's set to 32 as it should.

Will take some pictures when I get back home.

It has nothing to do with the screen as it moves when I'm moving windows across the desktop and also didn't see any of it when n using Benq.

post #527 of 549
That's interesting, I'm sure you have played with all of the color settings on the projector? What I would look at if you haven't already:

Color Space: Auto would be best but that may be the issue (could be your source but since the BenQ didn't have it I doubt the source would cause problems)
Dynamic Black: Off is ultimately the best and could possibly cause artifacts on certain screen materials maybe?
Noise Reduction: 0 is best otherwise it competes with the source
Color Temp: Warm
Brilliant Color: On a new bulb you can leave this at 1 or 3 ( I just turned mine up after prob 1000 hours use just to make it a bit more vivid until I sit down to re-cailbrate the picture, which needs to be done after the bulb has time to burn in; usually 400 hours I think)
Signal(video): This settings on stock could cause artifacts under certain situations, might find that set of calibration settings I referenced and set them up

That's about it as far as I can think of for looking into fixing the stepping/artifacts on color gradient changes.

Very strange I have to say!
post #528 of 549
Below are my calibration settings and HCFR results with ~600 hours on my bulb.



My gamma curve was originally flatter on the dark end but after watching some test clips I needed more detail in the dark scenes so I bumped up the brightness a few clicks which moved that part of the gamma curve down from ~2.1 to the current 1.6 range. Key adjustments were Brightness and Contrast.



RGB levels turned out pretty tight - key adjustments were within the White setting (RGB).



Regarding the primary and secondary colors and the CIE diagram, this was my first serious attempt at understanding the hue/sat/gain adjustments - I preferred to use the HCFR Measures tab versus the CIE diagram. I would click on one color at a time and make tweaks to move the Target arrow into the center of the bullseye. If the luminance reading was off, I tweaked the color's gain setting. If the Target arrow needed to move toward the color, I increased the color's saturation setting. If the Target arrow wasn't on a line running from the color through the center point, I tweaked the color's hue setting. As others have noticed, green has limitations so you have to settle for less than perfect calibration on that color. If you can get each color near the center of the target, your summary score will show the delta E values either shaded green or yellow with none shaded red (my goal). Again, I'm not sure I was taking the right approach with the primaries and secondaries so suggestions are definitely welcome.





Here's the resulting 75% CIE diagram ...




Here's color temp too ...



I only use this USER calibration in the evening, during the day, I use the default BRIGHT setting.
Edited by kenhdtv - 3/16/14 at 8:59am
post #529 of 549

with some more setting up colur gradient is a lot better.

also painted my screen with black widow and i got to say that improvement is like night and day compared to my previous white matt.

colours are more vivid and black i a lot deeper, performance in ambient light is much much better.

 

this is the best focus i can get:

 

middle of screen

 

edges

 

can anyone compare it to their focus uniformity and tell me if its worse/better/same..?

 

picture I've used:

http://www.planetb.net/~chrispy/8500ub/test_images/NEC_pattern_1.png

post #530 of 549
Dom, if the distance from the center of the lens to the top of the screen (viewable area) isn't set correctly or if your lens isn't centered left/right or you are near max or min of the zoom lens you could have less than perfect focus.

What is your displayed screen size?
What is the distance from lens to screen?
What is the distance from center-of-lens to top of screen area?

post #531 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenhdtv View Post

Dom, if the distance from the center of the lens to the top of the screen (viewable area) isn't set correctly or if your lens isn't centered left/right or you are near max or min of the zoom lens you could have less than perfect focus.

What is your displayed screen size?
What is the distance from lens to screen?
What is the distance from center-of-lens to top of screen area?

My  displayed screen is 70"

Projector is aligned properly with the screen because projected picture is exactly same width at the top and bottom

I'm using max zoom but tried at minimum and middle zoom and didn't see the difference..

I'm not gonna give you exact measurements as my screen as well as my projector are slightly under angle because I prefer it like that.

post #532 of 549
Dom, I like your NEC test screen link. I tried it on my HD25-LV which isn't perfectly mounted and I can get most of the image in sharp focus with the edges less sharp. It's probably just the optics associated with a $1000 projector versus the optics in +$3000 projectors. I occasionally tweak the focus when using my projector for internet surfing because I notice when the text starts to look a bit blurred (the focus ring seems to shift slightly over time due house vibrations). However with movies, TV, and gaming the edges of the image are less critical so I don't notice those focus issues.
post #533 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenhdtv View Post

 It's probably just the optics associated with a $1000 projector versus the optics in +$3000 projectors.

Well it seems not all as 100£ cheaper W1070 had much better focus..

So are you saying that your HD25 has the same focus as mine.?

post #534 of 549
Yes, I think my HD-25LV has the same focus challenge that your HD25e has - looking at the 2 sets of specs, the only difference appears to be my 240W bulb versus your 190W bulb so the lens systems are identical. I considered the W1070 but I preferred the lower noise HD25-LV and I needed the extra lumens as I use the projector during the day in a game room with a big window.
post #535 of 549
I took pictures of your NEC focus test screen and my pics show very little difference between upper left, middle, and lower right. I got my projector from BB mid-December.


upper left

middle .........................

lower right ..........................................................

In general, not much difference in text sharpness but the lines between the mirrors is less defined in the lower right pic.

Is it possible your painted screen has a rougher texture around the edges? Does it feel the same as the middle?
post #536 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenhdtv View Post

I took pictures of your NEC focus test screen and my pics show very little difference between upper left, middle, and lower right. I got my projector from BB mid-December.


upper left

middle .........................

lower right ..........................................................

In general, not much difference in text sharpness but the lines between the mirrors is less defined in the lower right pic.

Is it possible your painted screen has a rougher texture around the edges? Does it feel the same as the middle?

Yours look much much better so it seems there's something wrong with mine after all.

I can move my screen so the edge of the picture is in the middle of it and it's still the same.

All of my corners look like the one I have shown.

post #537 of 549

Tested mine with minimum zoom and it's similar to yours.

I'm gonna have to move my PJ farther away from the screen.

post #538 of 549
Thanks KenHDTV for your post burn in settings! I changed mine over to yours and the only personal adjustments I had to make was minor brightness and I was getting some pretty red skin tones on Netflix so I lowered saturation and bumped hue just a touch on the Red channel and boom, Perfect! Game of Thrones on Blu Ray was absolutely steller in all shades including green. I'm not a professional calibrator (spears and Munsil blu ray user) so this really helped me to get those colors dialed in. Thanks!
post #539 of 549
saturation and bumped hue , how many degrees ?
And you have HD25 or HD25LV ?
post #540 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmous View Post

saturation and bumped hue , how many degrees ?
And you have HD25 or HD25LV ?

Off the top of my head (I'm at work) I lowered the saturation 5 or 6 times and heightened the hue maybe 2-3 on the Red Channel. I also Have brightness at 0 instead of -2. This change really took a lot of the dark red skin tones I was getting on Netflix, granted Netflix is a poor choice for calibration but the effects on the Blu Ray player were tremendous using that information. I have a 90% light controlled room and the projector is approx 16' from the screen which is 120' 16:9, HD25
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