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The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Page 5

post #121 of 357
PJ really had to cut out huge chunks of LOTR to make the trilogy--entire chapters completely skipped over. Making The Hobbit a trilogy doesn't require a huge amount of padding so much as it allows him to present the entire story on film without the massive cuts that were a necessity with LOTR.
post #122 of 357
I can't help but enjoy the film, despite its flaws. Sir Ian IS Gandalf and any opportunity to get more of him in that role is all I need. biggrin.gif
post #123 of 357
The 2 hour video blog on the bonus disc of "The Hobbit" is entertaining and fascinating: they show a few scenes as filmed and then cut to those scenes from the final movie and you can readily see the colour grading (ie teal tint) difference.

They point out that colour grading is done in a darkened room "just like in a cinema", which might go some way towards explaining teal tints that some see and some don't: having any colour references visible during the viewing is going to affect perception.

So, obviously, to see the movie as PJ intended, one needs to watch in a cinema-like environment. I wish they graded it to retain pure white so that it could be enjoyed as intended in lit environments as well as dark. To my limited comprehension of such things, if the human vision system auto-white balances in dark environments, then teal-tinting a movie will not actually appear teal but will boost it's chromatic opposite (which is yellow/orange?).

I was also fascinated to hear that the RED cameras desaturate colour and they have to compensate by pushing colour saturation on the sets.

The Hobbit is really starting to grow on me despite its flaws, in all ways, including the theme song. Somehow, seeing the video blog increases the appreciation factor.
Edited by IanD - 3/12/13 at 8:12am
post #124 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post


I was also fascinated to hear that the RED cameras desaturate colour and they have to compensate by pushing colour saturation on the sets.
That was a misunderstanding that was presented in one of the video blogs during production where the make-up/wardrobe lady says that they have to boost color, particularly red color.
It is not the cameras but the mirros in the 3D rig that "steals" some color.
post #125 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

That was a misunderstanding that was presented in one of the video blogs during production where the make-up/wardrobe lady says that they have to boost color, particularly red color.
It is not the cameras but the mirrors in the 3D rig that "steals" some color.
Good point. I usually don't think about what effect the 3D rig itself has on the shot. How much light overall is lost through that rig? Ridley Scott said he lit the sets a lot brighter than he normally would to make sure everything showed up clearly on the 3D cameras, and then he was able to darken it in post to get the look he wanted.
post #126 of 357
interested in this for sure, but will likely stick with theatre version if there is an EE.

like a lot of people, I thoought it would have been better to have peter jackson produce and guillermo del toro direct. Pans Labryinth is one of my favorite movies. Even in the beginning of the movie, I see a lot of designs that kinda of remind me od something GDT would have envisioned. Still, have PJ direct was the next best thing.

I didnt mind when I heard that The Hobbit was going to be 2 movies. I thought it was better than having 1 giant 3.5 - 4 hour movie eek.gif And although the book is much thinner than any of the LOTR books, there are several sequences in the book that are a couple pages but I can imagine taking a little longer to translate on screen.

I actually remember enjoying the Hobbit more as a kid than I did LOTR because its not as long. But having read it again for the first time in..damn almost 25 years, it was fun but I could also see that some of the storytelling wasnt as strong. Really, the first half of the book are just chapters of the dwarves getting into trouble...and then Gandalf bailing them out. So I could understand PJ changing some stuff.

I didnt know what to expect with the 48FPS. I am not a big fan of 3D but PJ insisted that 48 FPS would make 3d viewing easier. And I saw this great video of douglas trumball using 48fps for all kinds of neat tricks (need to look for it again)

When I heard that Unexpected Journey was going to be 3 hours AND they decided late in the game to add YET ANOTHER 3rd movie, I got concerned and became baffled. Its kind of funny - lucas is addicted to cgi, kubrick was addicted to multiple takes, tarantino is hooked on violence and the F word. Jackson? he's addicted...to just lots of footage biggrin.gif !! its pretty funny...is any other filmmaker like this!?

Anyway, I saw it twice - once in 2D and once in 48 FPS 3D.

2D: Overall I really enjoyed it! It had the enchanting charm that makes it different than LOTR. The cast is great, and it was even cool to see Cate blanchett as Lady Galadriel again! I really liked that scene of Glandalf explaining to her why he admires Bilbo. Sure, its not in the book, but was a great addition. And I kind of like how the storyline of the Necromancer played out - the idea of a hidden evil thats a harbinger of things to come. The riddles scene with Gollum will be a classic. Half way through the movie I began to laugh, thinking to myself "my god, this crazy bastard is gonna actually pull it off!! he actually found a way to make 3 three hour movies out of this story and still make it awesome!!!"....then it started to get long...and then the battle at goblin town became drawn out, and then the battle on the cliff went too long. so yeah, theres some opportunities for cutting. And although it was nice to see frodo again, that should also have been cut out (to be fair, that was still too early in movie to cause pacing problems). I also think the main villain isnt so great. but overall, it was a lot of fun and cant wait for DOS.

48 FPS 3D: oh jeez...this badly misfired for me frown.gif PJ is right, 48 fps does make 3D easier on the eyes...but it sucks for everything else!! frown.gif its weird because as the movie went along I saw a different problem: 1)the way it sped everything up and made things herky-jerky 2)by the time I got used to that, the outdoor scenes looked terrible, especially in the forest with Radagast - some peope have called it the ViewMaster effect and I think its a good description 3)Many scenes inside a cave just looked fake 4)The battle with the Goblins for some weird reason just felt lame and didnt seem as epic as in regular 2D The movie also seemed longer in 3D and some of the mediocre effects - like Radagasts rabbits - looked god awful.

So overall, i still think its off to a great start. Its not going to be a trilogy for the ages like LOTR. But it can be a worthy companion piece, which is how I see it anyways. I think it makes some smart discreet ties to LOTR but still keeps its own identity. But i get why people feel the length is excessive and are jittery that it could become a serious liability for the next 2 movies. And I hope they have plenty of 2D showings; I guess I'll just only watch the next avatar in 3D and thats it.
post #127 of 357
I wonder how much it depends on which version you saw first? I saw the HFR version first, and to be honest, the 24p version just doesn't look right to me now. It's like something's missing.
post #128 of 357
fwiw, i saw the normal 3d version first, and i thought it looked really good. one of the better looking 3d movies (i'm not a huge fan...i generally prefer 2d). i did think the main cgi orc looked REALLY video-gamey, but the cgi in the goblin tunnels and elsewhere was great.

then i saw 3d HFR. the effect was just gross. but the orc cgi looked much more convincing. and the 3d was more consistent (if something would fly through the foreground, it felt more integrated into the picture)

one think i didn't expect, my friend and i both saw judder...i stopped seeing (or noticing) it after 20-30 mins, and my friend sometime after that. maybe it just stood out since we weren't expecting it, but we did see it on some horizontal pans.

maybe i'm just conditioned so that anything that doesn't look "like a movie" (24 fps with motion blur) looks "like a soap opera" to me. but i love HD video documentaries....whatever, of the 3 choices (2d/3d/3d hfr), 3d hfr is easily my least favorite.
Edited by agnathra - 3/14/13 at 2:59pm
post #129 of 357
I think that people should be aware that seeing the same HFR movie in different cinemas with different 3D system will yield different experience depending how good all the parts of the cinema system play together. It is really no way of comparing the experience.
The reports from people seeing The Hobbit HFR 3D have been very varied and complains inconsistent. As an example; some people experience "speed-up" in some scenes, other people that have been looking for that haven't been able to spot it.
The reason might be that the HFR servers where developed and installed just before the movie arrived in the cinemas, not been possible to test and adjust it properly and the servers might not play good with all projector systems and 3D systems.
Even the movie edit where locked just 2-3 days before the world premier in NZ, so no extended testing and adjustments where possible to make to neither the movie nor the servers and projectors before the audience saw it.
post #130 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnathra View Post

one think i didn't expect, my friend and i both saw judder...i stopped seeing (or noticing) it after 20-30 mins, and my friend sometime after that. maybe it just stood out since we weren't expecting it, but we did see it on some horizontal pans.

I don't think judder is the right word to describe it, but I noticed it too (I preferred the HFR 3D version vs regular 3D). I'm fairly certain that was due to the decision to shoot the movie at a shutter angle of 270 degrees. At 24fps, shutter angle is typically set to 180 degrees (or 1/48s shutter speed). Peter Jackson's reasoning for shooting at 270 degrees instead of 360 degrees is that the motion blur at 270 looked more film-like at 48fps. Personally, that was the only thing I really didn't enjoy about the HFR 3D experience. Should've just stuck with 360 degrees.
post #131 of 357
The first... and last HFR film I will ever see. To me it's an abomination and felt like I was watching a video game. I know some like it, but many do not and it if Hollywood forces this on us the way they are pushing 3D I will simply stop going to the theater.
post #132 of 357
I had no problem with the HFR 3d version and enjoyed the movie.

Haven't seen either the regular 3d or 2d. I'll be getting the bluray, seeing the 2d version for the first time that way.
post #133 of 357
I wish I had seen the HFR version. No matter if I liked the HFR or not, at least it would have made the experience more interesting. biggrin.gif This movie draggggggggggggedddd quite a bit I thought.

HDD review of the 2d version is up.............

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/8626/hobbit_journey.html

3/5 for the movie itself is a very fair score IMO.

Good to see the A/V get 5/5 marks though and I am curious to give it a spin from this perspective (and the 3d if it turns out good).
post #134 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by printguy View Post

If you look at the page count of the book "The Hobbit" compared to the LOTR trilogy you just have to know up front that the Hobbit movies will have to be stretched out considerably to fill a trilogy.

The trilogy isnt all just from the hobbit though as theyve added in alot from the wealth of material in the LOTR appendices.

I love 48fps....i love the real life looking thru a window actually happening now look on all movies on my high motion flow setting on my tv. biggrin.gif
post #135 of 357
UPS just dropped off my 3D copy from Amazon!
Planning to watch it tonight.
post #136 of 357

About 3 hours away from movie time for me too, Stoked!

 

Picked up my Steel Book at noon today

 


Edited by PioManiac - 3/20/13 at 5:47am
post #137 of 357
waiting on ups with minds...got it pre-ordered...should get here on thurs....
post #138 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post

About 3 hours away from movie time for me too, Stoked!

Picked up my Steel Book at noon today
Nice looking steelbook, PioManiac.
Wish they would have done something special for the 3D release. All I got was a lenticular slip (which does look cool).

Oh well, guess I'll have to wait for the extended edition to get a steelbook (maybe).
post #139 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

The first... and last HFR film I will ever see. To me it's an abomination and felt like I was watching a video game. I know some like it, but many do not and it if Hollywood forces this on us the way they are pushing 3D I will simply stop going to the theater.

same for me. I hated every horrible second of the 48fps awfulness of this movie.
post #140 of 357
I saw it in HFR, and two people in my family said it was the first time they have enjoyed a 3D movie without the presentation bothering them. No headaches, eye strain, etc. I couldn't believe the clarity and when I saw it again in regular 3D, I was amazed at how much detail was lost. Things I distinctly remembered seeing the first time were lost in a mess of blur and smudge. Many people have claimed that smudge is really the magic of cinema, but I enjoyed seeing it vanish for once, giving my eyes the opportunity to wander around the screen and take it all in without blur obscuring the action. Movement was fluid and natural to my eyes, instead of blurred and artificial.

I won't bother arguing with people who hate HFR, they're entitled to their opinions--but I thought it gave me the impression of looking through a window into another world in a way I'd never experienced before.
post #141 of 357
I think for 3D, HFR is superior. But I think they should go even higher with the frame rate, as I still saw motion artifacts at 48fps. Might as well do away with them altogether if that's the goal. That said, I can take 3D or leave it. I have never seen a movie I enjoyed more because of the 3D, or less because it was in 2D. It doesn't factor into my emotional or intellectual response to a film at all.
post #142 of 357
I just finished screening some highlights from the movie on blu in 2D and I was really,really impressed with it. I had seen it a few times-- already at home --on regular ntsc dvd as an awards screener .
The blu ray really blows it out of the water. The amount of detail you see "all over the screen-- all of the time" is amazing.
Having the ability to jog thru it and such--- really makes you appreciate the efforts of the work done on it.

Its definitely one of the best looking blu's out there.
post #143 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by celboy View Post

I just finished screening some highlights from the movie on blu in 2D and I was really,really impressed with it. I had seen it a few times-- already at home --on regular ntsc dvd as an awards screener .
The blu ray really blows it out of the water. The amount of detail you see "all over the screen-- all of the time" is amazing.
Having the ability to jog thru it and such--- really makes you appreciate the efforts of the work done on it.

Its definitely one of the best looking blu's out there.

Good to know, thanks
post #144 of 357
Biggest LFE disappointment since 2012 and Revenge of the Sith?????

I just got done watching this film in 3d (yes, I went against my gut and bought this disc today which I now regret ) and I have not been this disappointed with a films low end support since 2012 and Revenge of the Sith! What happened?? Right in the opening moments with Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the dragon encounter
the low end was noticeably lacking which I was hoping was just some sort of artistic choice for this scene for some strange reason which unfortunately was not the case as the rest of the film was just as anemic. I seriously feel like this is dejaVu from 2012 and Revenge of the Sith where I am just left scratching my head wondering where the low end went. To make things even more puzzling, all 3 LOTR movies have absolutely fantastic low end support with many very demo worthy sequences. The Mines of Moria section for example in FOTR is still one of the absolute overall audio demo pieces on blu ray IMO (just watched it a few months back again for the 1000th time) and NOTHING in The Hobbit even comes close to that largely due to the sorely and strangely lacking LFE. Truly a disappointing audio track from a LFE standpoint for both extension and output. What the hell happened????

Besides the major LFE issue which really brings down the audio presentation for this type of movie in general, I thought the rest of the audio was very good, but unfortunately the weak low end sticks out so much it is hard to appreciate what is left.

3d was average overall, nothing special. There were some impressive scenes off and on, but overall I dont feel the 3d added much if anything. You are not missing much of anything if only watching this film in 2d IMO.

Movie was just as disappointing as when I watched it in the IMAX. I managed to stay awake this time no problem, but man this movie falls flat compared to the LOTR films which you cant not compare to, especially FOTR since the structure of the film is so similar.

Good news.................I have absolutely ZERO interest in the EE and am happy to save money there. Besides checking out some scenes to assess the 2d PQ on my calibrated RS45 (I watched the 3d on my BenQ which I have not calibrated yet), I feel confident saying that I will never watch this film again as I have that little interest in it at this point. Really wish I would have just stuck to my guns and rented this disc!
post #145 of 357
It sounds like you had a defective copy or some equipment problems. Every review I've read says the LFE is on par with the LOTR trilogy.
post #146 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post

It sounds like you had a defective copy or some equipment problems. Every review I've read says the LFE is on par with the LOTR trilogy.

Nothing wrong with my equipment. I run 4 SVS subs in a small sealed room hot below 45hz with dual buttkickers to boot and this LFE track is anemic. It is nowhere near the LFE greatness of the LOTR movies. Put on the Mines of Moria sequence from FOTR and then the Goblin Town sequence from The Hobbit both cranked to reference and tell me which has better LFE. They are not equal and not even close.

Defective disc? Possible, but extremely unlikely. This will be easy to test giving the included 2d version a spin to compare with the 3d version.

What is your opinion on the LFE, or have you not watched the disc yet?

Bass heads will find this mix very disappointing and that is a guarantee. Both extension and output are strangely lacking. Not to mention just missed spots in general where there should be LFE and there is not. Most disappointing LFE mix in years IMO (since the mix from 2012 and Revenge of the Sith).
Edited by Toe - 3/20/13 at 5:50am
post #147 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Biggest LFE disappointment since 2012 and Revenge of the Sith?????

I just got done watching this film in 3d (yes, I went against my gut and bought this disc today which I now regret ) and I have not been this disappointed with a films low end support since 2012 and Revenge of the Sith! What happened?? Right in the opening moments with Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the dragon encounter
the low end was noticeably lacking which I was hoping was just some sort of artistic choice for this scene for some strange reason which unfortunately was not the case as the rest of the film was just as anemic. I seriously feel like this is dejaVu from 2012 and Revenge of the Sith where I am just left scratching my head wondering where the low end went. To make things even more puzzling, all 3 LOTR movies have absolutely fantastic low end support with many very demo worthy sequences. The Mines of Moria section for example in FOTR is still one of the absolute overall audio demo pieces on blu ray IMO (just watched it a few months back again for the 1000th time) and NOTHING in The Hobbit even comes close to that largely due to the sorely and strangely lacking LFE. Truly a disappointing audio track from a LFE standpoint for both extension and output. What the hell happened????

Besides the major LFE issue which really brings down the audio presentation for this type of movie in general, I thought the rest of the audio was very good, but unfortunately the weak low end sticks out so much it is hard to appreciate what is left.

3d was average overall, nothing special. There were some impressive scenes off and on, but overall I dont feel the 3d added much if anything. You are not missing much of anything if only watching this film in 2d IMO.

Movie was just as disappointing as when I watched it in the IMAX. I managed to stay awake this time no problem, but man this movie falls flat compared to the LOTR films which you cant not compare to, especially FOTR since the structure of the film is so similar.

Good news.................I have absolutely ZERO interest in the EE and am happy to save money there. Besides checking out some scenes to assess the 2d PQ on my calibrated RS45 (I watched the 3d on my BenQ which I have not calibrated yet), I feel confident saying that I will never watch this film again as I have that little interest in it at this point. Really wish I would have just stuck to my guns and rented this disc!

Thanks for your review Todd. Still waiting for my copy, sad to read the mix is not par with LOTR.
post #148 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Thanks for your review Todd. Still waiting for my copy, sad to read the mix is not par with LOTR.

Let me know what you think Frank after you watch it. I am going to check out my 2d copy to confirm the 3d disc mix is not off. While the weak LFE is a head scratcher, the mix is good otherwise so you will still enjoy it from that perspective I am sure. The PQ is excellent from what I can tell going off the 3d disc so I am curious to check out the 2d now which should be great.

Your expectations are firmly in check at this point reading various opinions so you will probably enjoy the film more than I did.
post #149 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Biggest LFE disappointment since 2012 and Revenge of the Sith?????

The LFE was pretty anemic in the theater that I saw this in. Same theater I saw the Dark Knight Rises and it had great bass for that movie. (Of course the bluray had very good bass too smile.gif) My daughter noticed the bass a few times during the movie and always makes sure to let me know, but was mostly towards the end of the movie - MANY opportunities with little impact. The Amos was very cool but the bass was weak. I had hoped the bluray would be mixed better but did not expect it.

Doing a viewing party this weekend and have not demo'd my disc yet but your lfe reports are usually spot on.

No bigee. My daughter wanted the movie AND it came with a Bilbo Baggins 1" action figure. tongue.gif
post #150 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

The LFE was pretty anemic in the theater that I saw this in. Same theater I saw the Dark Knight Rises and it had great bass for that movie. (Of course the bluray had very good bass too smile.gif) My daughter noticed the bass a few times during the movie and always makes sure to let me know, but was mostly towards the end of the movie - MANY opportunities with little impact. The Amos was very cool but the bass was weak. I had hoped the bluray would be mixed better but did not expect it.

Doing a viewing party this weekend and have not demo'd my disc yet but your lfe reports are usually spot on.

No bigee. My daughter wanted the movie AND it came with a Bilbo Baggins 1" action figure. tongue.gif

Let me know what you think Cabo after you check it out as I always enjoy reading your reports. The LFE was weak when I watched this at the IMAX as well which I was hoping was just due to that theater.

On a positive note, the PQ looks fantastic from what I could tell going off the 3d version and I am curious to check out the 2d now.
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