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The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Page 6

post #151 of 290
3/20/13 at 5:17am
It sounds like you had a defective copy or some equipment problems. Every review I've read says the LFE is on par with the LOTR trilogy.
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post #152 of 290
3/20/13 at 5:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post

It sounds like you had a defective copy or some equipment problems. Every review I've read says the LFE is on par with the LOTR trilogy.

Nothing wrong with my equipment. I run 4 SVS subs in a small sealed room hot below 45hz with dual buttkickers to boot and this LFE track is anemic. It is nowhere near the LFE greatness of the LOTR movies. Put on the Mines of Moria sequence from FOTR and then the Goblin Town sequence from The Hobbit both cranked to reference and tell me which has better LFE. They are not equal and not even close.

Defective disc? Possible, but extremely unlikely. This will be easy to test giving the included 2d version a spin to compare with the 3d version.

What is your opinion on the LFE, or have you not watched the disc yet?

Bass heads will find this mix very disappointing and that is a guarantee. Both extension and output are strangely lacking. Not to mention just missed spots in general where there should be LFE and there is not. Most disappointing LFE mix in years IMO (since the mix from 2012 and Revenge of the Sith).
Edited by Toe - 3/20/13 at 5:50am
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post #153 of 290
3/20/13 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Biggest LFE disappointment since 2012 and Revenge of the Sith?????

I just got done watching this film in 3d (yes, I went against my gut and bought this disc today which I now regret ) and I have not been this disappointed with a films low end support since 2012 and Revenge of the Sith! What happened?? Right in the opening moments with Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the dragon encounter
the low end was noticeably lacking which I was hoping was just some sort of artistic choice for this scene for some strange reason which unfortunately was not the case as the rest of the film was just as anemic. I seriously feel like this is dejaVu from 2012 and Revenge of the Sith where I am just left scratching my head wondering where the low end went. To make things even more puzzling, all 3 LOTR movies have absolutely fantastic low end support with many very demo worthy sequences. The Mines of Moria section for example in FOTR is still one of the absolute overall audio demo pieces on blu ray IMO (just watched it a few months back again for the 1000th time) and NOTHING in The Hobbit even comes close to that largely due to the sorely and strangely lacking LFE. Truly a disappointing audio track from a LFE standpoint for both extension and output. What the hell happened????

Besides the major LFE issue which really brings down the audio presentation for this type of movie in general, I thought the rest of the audio was very good, but unfortunately the weak low end sticks out so much it is hard to appreciate what is left.

3d was average overall, nothing special. There were some impressive scenes off and on, but overall I dont feel the 3d added much if anything. You are not missing much of anything if only watching this film in 2d IMO.

Movie was just as disappointing as when I watched it in the IMAX. I managed to stay awake this time no problem, but man this movie falls flat compared to the LOTR films which you cant not compare to, especially FOTR since the structure of the film is so similar.

Good news.................I have absolutely ZERO interest in the EE and am happy to save money there. Besides checking out some scenes to assess the 2d PQ on my calibrated RS45 (I watched the 3d on my BenQ which I have not calibrated yet), I feel confident saying that I will never watch this film again as I have that little interest in it at this point. Really wish I would have just stuck to my guns and rented this disc!

Thanks for your review Todd. Still waiting for my copy, sad to read the mix is not par with LOTR.
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post #154 of 290
3/20/13 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Thanks for your review Todd. Still waiting for my copy, sad to read the mix is not par with LOTR.

Let me know what you think Frank after you watch it. I am going to check out my 2d copy to confirm the 3d disc mix is not off. While the weak LFE is a head scratcher, the mix is good otherwise so you will still enjoy it from that perspective I am sure. The PQ is excellent from what I can tell going off the 3d disc so I am curious to check out the 2d now which should be great.

Your expectations are firmly in check at this point reading various opinions so you will probably enjoy the film more than I did.
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post #155 of 290
3/20/13 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Biggest LFE disappointment since 2012 and Revenge of the Sith?????

The LFE was pretty anemic in the theater that I saw this in. Same theater I saw the Dark Knight Rises and it had great bass for that movie. (Of course the bluray had very good bass too smile.gif) My daughter noticed the bass a few times during the movie and always makes sure to let me know, but was mostly towards the end of the movie - MANY opportunities with little impact. The Amos was very cool but the bass was weak. I had hoped the bluray would be mixed better but did not expect it.

Doing a viewing party this weekend and have not demo'd my disc yet but your lfe reports are usually spot on.

No bigee. My daughter wanted the movie AND it came with a Bilbo Baggins 1" action figure. tongue.gif
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post #156 of 290
3/20/13 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

The LFE was pretty anemic in the theater that I saw this in. Same theater I saw the Dark Knight Rises and it had great bass for that movie. (Of course the bluray had very good bass too smile.gif) My daughter noticed the bass a few times during the movie and always makes sure to let me know, but was mostly towards the end of the movie - MANY opportunities with little impact. The Amos was very cool but the bass was weak. I had hoped the bluray would be mixed better but did not expect it.

Doing a viewing party this weekend and have not demo'd my disc yet but your lfe reports are usually spot on.

No bigee. My daughter wanted the movie AND it came with a Bilbo Baggins 1" action figure. tongue.gif

Let me know what you think Cabo after you check it out as I always enjoy reading your reports. The LFE was weak when I watched this at the IMAX as well which I was hoping was just due to that theater.

On a positive note, the PQ looks fantastic from what I could tell going off the 3d version and I am curious to check out the 2d now.
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post #157 of 290
3/20/13 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


Defective disc? Possible, but extremely unlikely. This will be easy to test giving the included 2d version a spin to compare with the 3d version.

What is your opinion on the LFE, or have you not watched the disc yet?.

I didn't really notice this until I dropped in the FOTR:EE after watching the 2D disk ... You're probably right wrt to LFE ...

As for the video (on the 2D disk,) It seems just a tad "soft" and muted ... I was expecting 2 disks given the length of the film.

FWIW, the PS3 was reporting ~20Mb/sec (AVC) on average compared to well into the 30's on the LOTR:EE disks.
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post #158 of 290
3/20/13 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Nothing wrong with my equipment. I run 4 SVS subs in a small sealed room hot below 45hz with dual buttkickers to boot and this LFE track is anemic. It is nowhere near the LFE greatness of the LOTR movies. Put on the Mines of Moria sequence from FOTR and then the Goblin Town sequence from The Hobbit both cranked to reference and tell me which has better LFE. They are not equal and not even close.

Defective disc? Possible, but extremely unlikely. This will be easy to test giving the included 2d version a spin to compare with the 3d version.

What is your opinion on the LFE, or have you not watched the disc yet?

Bass heads will find this mix very disappointing and that is a guarantee. Both extension and output are strangely lacking. Not to mention just missed spots in general where there should be LFE and there is not. Most disappointing LFE mix in years IMO (since the mix from 2012 and Revenge of the Sith).
I watched the 2d version of the same collection you own,and you know my opinion of this track.
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post #159 of 290
3/20/13 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

I watched the 2d version of the same collection you own,and you know my opinion of this track.

Thanks for the confirmation. I assumed bad disc was a long shot.
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post #160 of 290
3/20/13 at 2:14pm
This particular disc which was the 2D version on my system has great video and color! Since this is being stretched out to cover all involved I can live with the slow almost fall asleep pacing of the movie! However as stated by others, the audio is definitely lacking LFE and total output for some reason. I am almost at -5 db just to obtain the same volume levels with other movies at -10 db from reference. There is nothing wrong with my system setup so lets not go down that path please! rolleyes.gif
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post #161 of 290
3/20/13 at 3:22pm
If the LFE is as poor as you say, blu-ray.com was way off the mark when they said:

"...it's The Hobbit's bellowing beast of a DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 surround track that leaves the most lasting mark. The LFE channel is forceful yet discerning, producing deep, resonant thooms and weighty low-end support."

But they've been wrong before, as has the official AVS forum review which also says the audio track is "reference quality" on this disc.
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post #162 of 290
3/20/13 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by giantchicken View Post

I won't bother arguing with people who hate HFR, they're entitled to their opinions--but I thought it gave me the impression of looking through a window into another world in a way I'd never experienced before.

As a point of curiosity, can I ask your age?
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post #163 of 290
3/20/13 at 4:14pm
Quote:
As a point of curiosity, can I ask your age?

Lol, where are you going with this?
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post #164 of 290
3/21/13 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Let me know what you think Frank after you watch it. I am going to check out my 2d copy to confirm the 3d disc mix is not off. While the weak LFE is a head scratcher, the mix is good otherwise so you will still enjoy it from that perspective I am sure. The PQ is excellent from what I can tell going off the 3d disc so I am curious to check out the 2d now which should be great.

Your expectations are firmly in check at this point reading various opinions so you will probably enjoy the film more than I did.

Ill let you know regarding the audio Todd. Hopefully its just the 3D disc, just curious mate did you try the 2D disc?
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post #165 of 290
3/21/13 at 6:09am
There is LFE, comparable to the EEs at times, but for some reason only Shore's music has any weight/oomph to it (watching the 2d disc). Anything happening in Middle-Earth is quiet on the low-end; the tonal difference is especially notable during the warg chase and cave escape. From my perspective its hard to say if its a mastering issue or the creator's intention. It's a strange mix, and I honestly thought it could have been mistaken for a very nice 5.0 track most of the time.
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post #166 of 290
3/21/13 at 7:25am
I purchased the 3D Bluray version yesterday and viewed it. I'll have to admit I didn't notice a single scene where I felt my house was in an earthquake zone, so if there was LFE it wasn’t noticeable. I would have thought the battle of the mountain giants would have been a house shaker, but it wasn’t really. There were also several times where the 3D seemed off or blurry. So bad that I cleaned my 3D glasses once just to make sure.

I don’t regret buying this movie, but it’s not reference material
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post #167 of 290
3/21/13 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Ill let you know regarding the audio Todd. Hopefully its just the 3D disc, just curious mate did you try the 2D disc?

I actually did check out about an hour of the 2d disc last night and no real difference that I could tell. Also forum member thehun watched the 2d disc out of the same 3d set I bought and had the same complaints as me as far as the bass which he wrote about in a couple of threads including the audio tier thread here in the software forum. LFE was still strangely low in the mix during key moments where you would really expect it to be house shaking (like a scene early on in the film which you will see when you watch it). Like NealHanna mentions above, there is some LFE at times, but it is mostly in the music (and even that feels reserved to some degree IMO) with the effects LFE being held WAY back in the mix in general. Like he mentions, it is a strange mix as far as this goes and it sounds so off to me at times you wonder if there is some sort of mastering issue. Chances are it is just a creative decision though and maybe they decided to tone things way down due to this being a bit more geared towards kids since The Hobbit is more of a kids story? I dont know, but after you watch it let me know what you think. One thing is for sure though and that is the LFE in general is much less impressive and noticeably lacking vs the LOTR films. The best comparison I can give if you have heard these two films on DVD or blu ray is the movie 2012 and Revenge of the Sith both of which had similar issues where the low end portion of the track is VERY unconvincing in accordance with the on screen action to the point where you might start checking if your subs are on, turned up to where they should be, etc.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundsDif View Post

I'll have to admit I didn't notice a single scene where I felt my house was in an earthquake zone, so if there was LFE it wasn’t noticeable. I would have thought the battle of the mountain giants would have been a house shaker, but it wasn’t really.

Same here and agreed. The scene you mention is a great example of a scene you would have expected house crushing LFE impact and it did not happen. It felt like it wanted to be there, but sounded as if it was strangely chopped off or turned way down or something. confused.gif For me it was unconvincing to the point that it took me out of the film which is how several other scenes felt as well like Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the dragon scene in the beginning of the film. When we get those two or three dragon steps in particular, I really expected this to hit like the Balrog footsteps in FOTR and this scene certainly warranted that type of LFE impact, but we hardly get a whimper of low end confused.gif
.
Edited by Toe - 3/21/13 at 10:07am
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post #168 of 290
3/21/13 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Lol, where are you going with this?
Nowhere, in terms of the discussion here in the thread.

HFR bugged the living crap out of me for the entire film. I've also seen some tech demos of other interpolated high frame rate systems with old movies where my reaction was similar. I am 50, and while I do play video games and there are some scenarios where I enjoy the look, movies seem to not be one of them. Most of my similarly aged peers are the same.

On the other hand, my teen kid and some of my younger co-workers enjoy seeing films presented this way. So when I see someone with a positive reaction, I am curious as to where on that spectrum they fall.

I wonder if Trumbull had been successful in doing the segments of Brainstorm using showscan as he wanted, what my reaction would have been back then.
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post #169 of 290
3/21/13 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

I am 50, and while I do play video games and there are some scenarios where I enjoy the look, movies seem to not be one of them. Most of my similarly aged peers are the same.

On the other hand, my teen kid and some of my younger co-workers enjoy seeing films presented this way. So when I see someone with a positive reaction, I am curious as to where on that spectrum they fall.

Interesting. At 39, I'm maybe halfway between you (50) and your younger co-workers (30?). And my reaction was meh, which coincidentally is halfway between pro and anti. The look didn't bother me and I got used to it fairly quickly, but the way I'd describe it is "it's just a different kind of fake". To me, it looks neither more real nor more fake than 24fps, just different. Maybe for me, 48 is still too far away from the realistic framerates of 120+ people sometimes talk about.
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post #170 of 290
3/21/13 at 6:01pm
Picked up this movie yesterday when I told myself I was going to wait for the extended edition and I'm glad I changed my mind.

Great movie in every way! Great story! Great video! Great audio! I can't find a flaw in this movie and it makes me wonder how anyone could.

Al
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post #171 of 290
3/21/13 at 6:22pm
Bought the non 3d version on Tuesday, hopefully will watch tomorrow night.
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post #172 of 290
3/22/13 at 1:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

As a point of curiosity, can I ask your age?

I am 38.
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post #173 of 290
3/22/13 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by giantchicken View Post

I am 38.

I'm Batman.
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post #174 of 290
3/22/13 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie1210 View Post

I'm Batman.
Nice...biggrin.gif
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post #175 of 290
3/22/13 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angler55 View Post

Picked up this movie yesterday when I told myself I was going to wait for the extended edition and I'm glad I changed my mind.

Great movie in every way! Great story! Great video! Great audio! I can't find a flaw in this movie and it makes me wonder how anyone could.

You wrote exactly what I was going to write. Totally agree!
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post #176 of 290
3/22/13 at 11:25pm
The 3D on this Blu-ray looks fantastic. Motionflow set to Smooth on my HX929 does a great job at replicating what I saw in the theater in HFR. In some ways, it looks better.
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post #177 of 290
3/22/13 at 11:26pm
I really enjoyed it. It started slowly. But its just the first chapter in the story, so I don't discredit it for that.

The Gollum stuff was particularly superb. Really nice. As were the scenes with the underground,

I can't wait until the next one.

I thought the transfer was great, and the landscapes were breathtaking.

I did notice a bit of a lack of LFE compared to LOTR, but it did not detract from my enjoyment.
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post #178 of 290
3/22/13 at 11:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

Maybe for me, 48 is still too far away from the realistic framerates of 120+ people sometimes talk about.

I read that human vision is roughly equivalent to 60fps in its temporal resolvability: more is not necessarily better. It seemed a strange choice to select 48fps since very little equipment supports it, whilst 60fps is readily supported right now on the domestic front.

Hobbit has grown on me and the time just seems to whiz by now when re-watching.
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post #179 of 290
3/23/13 at 12:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

I read that human vision is roughly equivalent to 60fps in its temporal resolvability: more is not necessarily better. It seemed a strange choice to select 48fps since very little equipment supports it.
I think it was more of a "2x24fps" for marketing reasons than anything else.
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post #180 of 290
3/23/13 at 1:23am
Every cinema in the known universe can project 24fps. To obtain 24fps from 48fps, you drop every other frame. Simple. No such simplicity with 60fps.
The "domestic front" tends to be a distant concern for filmmakers.
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