AVR upgrade opinions, please

well, I can't recommend AC4... very unpleasant experience myself... and I may be one small voice out of many, many happy customers... but my experience with them was anything but .
and they'll not get a dime from me ever again.

Doesn't matter how low the price if the quality isn't there. The hassle factor in returning a defective refurbished unit ( if you happen to be the unlucky type), and dealing with delays for returned units/ purchases being credited to your account (they'll hold on to your $$, even if they send you 2 bricks, for at least 6-8 weeks), and you'll be on the hook for the original shipping charges regardless. Read their fine print. Then read it again before you order from them.

this is IMO, YMMV, and IFYDLIYCKMA,

Joseph

Only that I prefer Onkyo over Pioneer.

Onkyo is fine if you live in a cold state, you can use it at the same time for listening to music and to heat the whole room since the class AB amplifier requires a lot of power even when the volume is low. Another annoying issue with the Onkyo is that they take forever to change the HDMI input, not mentioning that the reliability of these receivers is not the best out there. If you finally decide to buy the Onkyo, get the warranty too. Forget the Denon/Marantz option, their distortion levels are not on par.

Anyway my opinion is biased, I am a happy owner of an SC-1222K.

Good luck with your decision.

I prefer Pioneer Sc1222 much much more than Onkyo 809. To "goblue1"; you said you want warm; then get the Pioneer. Onkyo is more harsh (bright tweeters)... Pioneer is like something in bewteeen neutral/warm

Amps on 1222 is much better than 809. D3 amps are really awesome. I owned Onkyo 706, Marantz SR6003, Denon 3311, and Yamaha A1000; and the Pioneer SC-1222 sweeps away all the others. Lesser models from Pioneer can't compete with this SC-1222. in terms of build quality; SQ, etc. Although the 1122 is a nice contender vs Onkyo 515 and below; Denon 1613 and below and Yamaha 473 and below.
Edited by javygonx - 2/8/13 at 7:32am

This is not indicative of my onkyo experience. I have an 808 and its nit a space heater nor dies it take an eternity to change inputs, in fact it is very responsive.

To be honest I don't care for Onkyo or Pioneer but he was asking which of the 2. If the price is nearly the same I would get Yamaha and then Denon.

The PIO has the new D3 amps and has the same internals as the Elite SC-61 which is Wayyyyyy better than that old 809. Its better than the 819. Heck there are those that say the Elite 68 is better than the 3010 and the only difference is the 15wpc between the SC-68 and SC-1222 and you can't find the 68 under $1,500. Those D3 amps are made for 4ohm as they drive all channels w/o dropping off like A/B's drop off.. These amps are the best new amps out there at this price point bar none... These amps are better than the B/O amps the Elite used to use. These are the most modern and powerful amps out there hands down and this amp is a total sleeper. It is the early 70's Chevy Malibu not the SS yet it still has the 454 engine but just crank windows vs power and no race stripe and hub caps vs rims but every bit as fast and powerful and on the lift looking up you can't tell the difference.. There is no contest between these amps. If you want to top this amp with a Yammy you will need to be north of a $1,000 just to compete and more to out pace it. Denon you will spend sooooo much more and that old Denon you mentioned is not going to come close with 4ohm performance. Not even close... You need to go much higher up the food chain to compete with the SC-1222-k. A pure sleeper and at about $500 from newegg you can't touch it for that money with anything especially older leftover units. Grab the Pio and don't look back and you will thank yourself for it...