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New construction wiring help - Page 3

post #61 of 79
2/9/13 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider_09 View Post

What type/brand of signal interrupt do you use between your avr and keypad?

For nuvo systems they have a specific solution - the LSI24 or LSI12 depending on the system. The LSI12 should work for any system with a 12V trigger. There are also triggered speaker selectors which do the same trick.
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post #62 of 79
2/11/13 at 8:42pm
Thread Starter 
Jeff:

I dont quite understand your diagram. What is a local A/V receiver? Is it the TV?
If so, does your diagram mean that I need to run a pair of speaker wires from the TV to the switch?
Another question is that you have speaker cables running from the switch to keypad then to WHA system. And a Cat5e.
The speaker wires don't actually connect to the "Control pad". Right?

Please help to look at my master bedroom room size and layout. It is 15'x16' big.
Bed is the in middle to the entrance. Only possible TV location is on left side wall. So it is not aligned perfectly with the bed.
In this case, Do you think use sound bar is a better solution or using in-ceiling speakers are better?
And for this room, no matter if I want to use the in-ceiling speakers for TV or for WHA. Will it still be a better positive to put the speakers on the two sides of the bed side? Instead of in the middle of the room?
What do you think?
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post #63 of 79
2/11/13 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ildo View Post

I dont quite understand your diagram. What is a local A/V receiver? Is it the TV?

No, an AVR - aka receiver / surround sound system / amplifier. The thing that makes the speakers go. smile.gif
Quote:
If so, does your diagram mean that I need to run a pair of speaker wires from the TV to the switch?

From wherever the surround system's amplifier will be to the switch. Generally easiest to co-locate the switch at the same location as stereo / AVR to make this simpler...
Quote:
Another question is that you have speaker cables running from the switch to keypad then to WHA system. And a Cat5e.
The speaker wires don't actually connect to the "Control pad". Right?

Depends on your WHA system. My speaker cables run through the keypad locations, as is recommended for pre-wiring. But no, in my case, the speakers do not attach to the keypad.
Quote:
Please help to look at my master bedroom room size and layout. It is 15'x16' big.
Bed is the in middle to the entrance. Only possible TV location is on left side wall. So it is not aligned perfectly with the bed.
In this case, Do you think use sound bar is a better solution or using in-ceiling speakers are better?

For front L/R? Definitely a soundbar. I don't think that's a great location for use as surround channels, either.
Quote:
And for this room, no matter if I want to use the in-ceiling speakers for TV or for WHA. Will it still be a better positive to put the speakers on the two sides of the bed side? Instead of in the middle of the room?
What do you think?

With your layout, moving the speakers to either side of the headboard may not be a good trade off. My room has the TV and bed both centered on opposite walls, so the placement made sense for both. In order to use the WHA speakers for surround, you have to have an AVR / surround system for that zone. A soundbar won't meet the requirements, unfortunately, because they don't provide surround-channel outputs (by their nature). But there's nothing wrong with using a nice quality soundbar for TV / surround sound in a bedroom. And given the placement options in your room, I think it's probably the best choice, and abandon the idea of using the WHA speakers for surround...

Jeff
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post #64 of 79
2/11/13 at 9:30pm
Thread Starter 
In-ceiling speaker shopping list:

1. Master bathroom (15'x6')
2. Kid's play room (9.5' x 11')
One 6.5“ DVC like this one in each room:
http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PWRC62-6-5-Inch--Ceiling-Dual-Channel/dp/B000MCELG0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1360645543&sr=1-1&keywords=in-ceiling+dual+voice+coil+speakers

Just hope I dont get a broken one like the other buyers. smile.gif

3. Master bedroom (15'x16')
4. Kitchen (9.5' x 18')
5. Living room (14' x 18')
A pair of 6.5" like this one in each area:
http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PDIC60-250-Watt-6-5-Inch--Ceiling/dp/B0007LCL90/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1360644372&sr=1-3&keywords=in-ceiling+speakers

6. Outdoor, backyard
I think I will give this one a try.
http://www.amazon.com/Dual-LU43PW-Indoor-Outdoor-Speakers/dp/B000A5S926/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1360646089&sr=1-2&keywords=outdoor+speakers

What do you think about those selections? Those fit well from my budget point of view. rolleyes.gif
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post #65 of 79
2/11/13 at 9:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

No, an AVR - aka receiver / surround sound system / amplifier. The thing that makes the speakers go. smile.gif
From wherever the surround system's amplifier will be to the switch. Generally easiest to co-locate the switch at the same location as stereo / AVR to make this simpler...
Depends on your WHA system. My speaker cables run through the keypad locations, as is recommended for pre-wiring. But no, in my case, the speakers do not attach to the keypad.
For front L/R? Definitely a soundbar. I don't think that's a great location for use as surround channels, either.
With your layout, moving the speakers to either side of the headboard may not be a good trade off. My room has the TV and bed both centered on opposite walls, so the placement made sense for both. In order to use the WHA speakers for surround, you have to have an AVR / surround system for that zone. A soundbar won't meet the requirements, unfortunately, because they don't provide surround-channel outputs (by their nature). But there's nothing wrong with using a nice quality soundbar for TV / surround sound in a bedroom. And given the placement options in your room, I think it's probably the best choice, and abandon the idea of using the WHA speakers for surround...

Jeff

Thank you so much Jeff.I think using in-ceiling speakers for TV is not a very good idea either for the layout of my room. I think I will just use TV speakers for now. or I will add a soundbar later if I really dont like the sound of the TV speakers.
I will still just install the in-ceiling speaker in the middle of the bedroom for WHA then.
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post #66 of 79
2/12/13 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ildo View Post

Thank you so much Jeff.I think using in-ceiling speakers for TV is not a very good idea either for the layout of my room. I think I will just use TV speakers for now. or I will add a soundbar later if I really dont like the sound of the TV speakers.
I will still just install the in-ceiling speaker in the middle of the bedroom for WHA then.

TV speakers are terrible. At least get a decent set of stereo speakers. They don't have to be in-wall.
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post #67 of 79
2/12/13 at 8:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

TV speakers are terrible. At least get a decent set of stereo speakers. They don't have to be in-wall.

I agree. What do you think about using a sound bar?

What WHA system you recommend? I am thinking between HTD and NuVo now.
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post #68 of 79
2/13/13 at 6:30am
Quote:
I will still just install the in-ceiling speaker in the middle of the bedroom for WHA then.

Speakers, right? You should put a pair in the master bedroom, versus a single DVC.

Quote:
What WHA system you recommend? I am thinking between HTD and NuVo now.

Between those two, NuVo. Also look at Sonos and Russound. The reason being that HTD doesn't have any sources. So you'll need to connect a Sonos Connect, or Airplay or some other device so that you can stream music. The others come with built in sources, thus creating a cleaner interface.
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post #69 of 79
2/13/13 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ildo View Post

I agree. What do you think about using a sound bar?

What WHA system you recommend? I am thinking between HTD and NuVo now.

Sonos is the gold standard, and it's extremely flexible, with the ability to work with high-end prewires, but also working with zero pre-wire.

Sound bars are bad. They are less bad than TV sound, but you really need discreet channels. Pretty much everything is 5.1 these days. For a secondary room, I guess you could do 2.1 or 3.1 (if 3.1 is even supported on anything), or use bigger speakers in a 2.0 setup (I use this for my computer). The fact of the matter is that you need decent sized speakers with good channel separation for good sound. I love my Onkyo 7.1 THX HTIB. There is just no replacement for decent sized speakers and lots of channels.
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post #70 of 79
2/13/13 at 1:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramin View Post

Speakers, right? You should put a pair in the master bedroom, versus a single DVC.
Between those two, NuVo. Also look at Sonos and Russound. The reason being that HTD doesn't have any sources. So you'll need to connect a Sonos Connect, or Airplay or some other device so that you can stream music. The others come with built in sources, thus creating a cleaner interface.

My local RUssound dealer quoted me for a CAA66 system with 6 keypads, The LCD version is $1699 and the non LCD keypad version is $1399. What do you think about this price?
I checked Russound website, it seems that their systems don't have online streaming feature. And I have to buy a digital media streamer. Or add a Sonos as the source?
Here is my current situation. Hope you guys can suggest a system that can fit my needs:
I have following zones:
1. Kitchen, living room.
2 pairs of in-ceiling speakers, one keypad location (2-gang).

2. kid's playing room
1 in-ceiling DVC speaker, one keypad location (1-gang).
(I may not install it yet at this point.)

3. Master bedroom
1 pair of in-ceiling speakers. one keypad location (2-gang).

4. Master bathroom
1 in-ceiling DVC speaker. one keypad location (1-gang)

5. Outdoor area
2 pairs of outdoor speakers in the backyard. One keypad location (1-gang)

6. in the future, I may install a pair of speakers in my old bedroom (soon-to-be my kid's bedroom)

I do like to have online music streaming features. My source will be:
Smart phones, or tablets.
PC
Cable TV (Mainly will be for the local FM radio)
Maybe a Blue-ray player in the future. (Not in the current plan)

If I have to, I can change all 1-gang brackets to 2-gangs. But I dont think the mix of 1 and 2-gang fit my needs better and will keep the cost down.

Thanks
Jun
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post #71 of 79
2/13/13 at 2:11pm
If going Russound, you could get the MCA-C5 and the DMS-3.1. The latter is the music server. Or, you could go NuVo P-3100 which can stream music without a server. It's $1300 for 3 zones of music. But there aren't any keypads for the P3100.

Some additional thoughts on keypads... if you really want them, make sure you like them aesthetically and that they're easy to use. HTD's keypads aren't that nice. NuVo has the best, followed by Russound. NuVo with keypads will start to get expensive, so you might want to stick with Russound.

Maybe we can get that Jeff character to chime in and give you his thoughts on NuVo Grand Concerto and the costs associated with it. Ah... here's how we get his attention...

I'm not an audiophile...
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post #72 of 79
2/13/13 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramin View Post

I'm not an audiophile...

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post #73 of 79
2/13/13 at 2:47pm
LOL! I bet you have that photo saved, ready to go when needed.
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post #74 of 79
2/13/13 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramin View Post

Some additional thoughts on keypads... if you really want them, make sure you like them aesthetically and that they're easy to use. HTD's keypads aren't that nice. NuVo has the best, followed by Russound. NuVo with keypads will start to get expensive, so you might want to stick with Russound.

The two things that swung me to NuVo over Russound were the "modern" appearance of the NuVo keypads and the availability of the digital music server (at the time Russound didn't have an equivalent).

4 years later - the readability of the keypad from more than arm's length I would add to that list, but the NuVo keypads still look 'up to date'. But since they're all wired with cat5e anyway, my expectation is that they will be replaced by edge-to-edge glass touchscreens long before they look like a 2020-equivalent of a Nutone in-wall radio. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Maybe we can get that Jeff character to chime in and give you his thoughts on NuVo Grand Concerto and the costs associated with it.

The more zones involved, the more the music server cost can be scaled. For <6 zones, it's hard to justify on a pure cost basis, but it's not like there will be a crossover / break-even comparison between the two systems, either. I do believe the permanent-mount keypad and mobile device control are "AND" not "OR" solutions, as they complement either other quite well (and I use both, too).

I think the killer app for this space is a edge-to-edge glass touchscreen keypad in a single/dual gang form factor, Ethernet/PoE-based, running an extensible interface (Android likely), with a Sonos Connect:Amp or NuVo P3100 app, for a few hundred bucks per... Whichever of those two does it, wins, IMO. Heck, maybe some smart 3rd party could build that?

Jeff
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post #75 of 79
2/13/13 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramin View Post

LOL! I bet you have that photo saved, ready to go when needed.

I have a collection of otter-related humor for these occasions.

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post #76 of 79
2/14/13 at 11:52am
Thread Starter 
The Otter photos are so funny. Made my day!

Back to my project though. I do prefer to have both keypad control and smartphone control.
I do like NuVo's keypad look. But according to parts express's price. It is a little out of my budget.
I hope to get a system that is under $3K. (Control, keypads, remotes)

Does that mean I have to go with Russound ?

Thanks
Jun
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post #77 of 79
2/14/13 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Does that mean I have to go with Russound ?

Probably. You can pick up a good system for under $3k from them.
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post #78 of 79
2/14/13 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ildo View Post

Back to my project though. I do prefer to have both keypad control and smartphone control.
I do like NuVo's keypad look. But according to parts express's price. It is a little out of my budget.
I hope to get a system that is under $3K. (Control, keypads, remotes)

Does that mean I have to go with Russound ?

Find a local NuVo dealer who may be willing to give you a better price for a DIY install.

There's also the Essentia system, which is smaller than the GC and comes with single-gang OLED keypads. But you can add the GC keypads to it for "key" locations.

Pricing for either NuVo / Russound when the music server products are included aren't going to be cheap.
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post #79 of 79
2/15/13 at 8:01am
I would look at the HAI Hi-FI2 it's made by nuvo you can have up to 8 sources spread through your house and 16 zones. You can hook in a sonos
controller as an input. And just control it from your computer or phone.
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