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DIY for a college student. Dayton SD270A-88 10" in a ported box.

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 
I'm looking to build a DIY sub, as I've seen that they can outperform much more expensive ones for a lower cost, but I have no access to a table saw or the ability to store huge amounts of MDF. Is there some kind of a DIY kit that I can just paint the box and plug in the amp and screw in the driver? Thanks.

2/5/13
Taking the information gained from the very helpful people here, especially ack_bk and Jay1, I've decided to go for a Dayton 390HF 15" driver in a ported box. I'll be making it around 6.5 ft 3 but I'm still messing with the setting in WinISD.

2/6/13
Dayton RSS390HF
CSS PA500 linked above
~6.5 cu ft. I'm going to aim for this but not complain too much if it ends up a little less due to bracing, ports, etc.
2, 23" ports
Tuning to 20 Hz which gives me this SPL


2/7/13
Going to go for 8 cu ft, because the low end extension seems to be better than the 6.5 cu ft, but I'm sure I'll be blown away regardless.

Costs:
Open cell foam for stuffing: $12.85 + shipping
Dayton RSS390HF: $172.69
CSS PA-500: $239
4" tuning kit x2: $27.80
MDF: $35

6/7/13
Decided against everything I had put previously. I'm going for the Dayton SD270A-88 10" in a 3.5 cu ft. box tuned to 24 Hz wit ha 70 watt amp. It will measure 24x13x19 in order to fit under my parents TV, as I am home for the summer and would like to enjoy it. The parts arrived today and I got 3 2'x4' sheets of 3/4" MDF at Home Depot, so the build will hopefully start tomorrow and be done shortly after. Will update with pictures as it gets done.

Total cost so far:
Dayton Audio SA70 70W Plate Amp - $59.60
Dayton Audio SD270A-88 10" DVC Subwoofer - $39.56
Precision Port 4" Kit - $19.37
3 sheets of 2' x 4' 3/4" MDF - $24.96 (the lady only scanned 2, didn't realize until too late)

6/8/13
I'm a little puzzled as to how to wire it. Looking at this page (even though there are 2 8-ohm voice coils), it seems like either configuration would work. Should I do series just so it doesn't overheat or cause damage? I'm really not sure how this works.

Also, do the wires then just go into the amp connections and stay there, or do I solder them in?

6/8/13 #2
We began construction today. Fun fact: 3/4" MDF from Home Depot is said to be 23 3/4" wide but is actually a bit over 24", which works great for my 24" wide box!

We cut the pieces for the box, and then either the height of the smallest panels was off when we cut them, or the 3/4" is lightly larger than 3/4", so we had to cut that down a little bit.

Here are a couple pictures of test fitting the panels:




Then we estimated the circle sizes of the subwoofer and the port using parts and the foam circle the woofer came in.



We used a circle bit for the pilot holes and then a plain old jigsaw to cut the circle. Decide against baffles just for ease, but did roundover the edges. Also, the hole for the amp was made the same way.





We glued, clamped, and nailed the top, bottom, and side panels, will work on the rest tomorrow.



The final dimensions will be 24"x14"x19" with around a 11" port tuned to 25 Hz. Hopefully the loss of interior volume won't be too much to alter the tuning, but this is an imprecise and first project just to dip into DIY. We'll probably brace it with just some dowels going both way.

6/10/13

Yesterday went quite well! We finished gluing the box together, extended the wires on the amped, wired the parallel connections on the subwoofer coils, and ran a quick test to see if there was sound. Even got the edges rounded over and the whole box sanded with a random orbital sander. Next comes painting! I will be doing a primer followed by fiberglass filler and then matte black spray paint with some sanding and such.

Here's the box with the back panel glued on:


And the front panel with the holes for the driver and the port:


From there we went in and cut off the connectors on the amp and lengthened them a bit with a pretty cool soldering torch (I've only used the old fashioned hot metal rod in electronics classes) and then put some heat shrink on to keep it even more secure.






We also wired the driver in parallel when we did the amp:


Then we headed back to the workshop and glued the front panel on and clamped it:


As well as gluing the port together:


After the front dried I had to make sure the port fit, and it did!


I bought 2 2 pound bags of polyfill from Joann's which I'm sure will be enough to get it good.


Here's some pictures of the box after rounding it and sanding it:




Now for what we did today. Really the only thing left was painting! I decided instead of priming and sanding and spreading filler to go with just plain old bedliner for a truck. It actually filled in most of the holes very well, and some of the cracks were a little open but hopefully no one will notice. This is the paint that we used:


Here's the box after the first coat:


The second coat:


And the third and final coat:



From here, we just have to mount the amp, wire it to the woofer, and mount the woofer and port with some screws! Operation subwoofer almost complete.
Edited by edlittle - 6/10/13 at 4:00pm
post #2 of 48
I would get the enclosure here:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2.html

Need some more details though. How large is the room this is going in? Do you have a sub now? What are your expectations for $300?

Keep in mind these flat packs are for sealed subs not ported.
post #3 of 48
Thread Starter 
My room is about 13 by 20 by 9 so let's say 2300 cu ft? The only sub that I have ever had is my Logitech speakers which are rated down to 40 hz but I doubt that it actually extends that low. My expectations are that it will fill in the gap that I don't have with my pioneer bs21s. I don't actually know the difference between sealed and ported other than what they look like.
post #4 of 48
$300 will be a stretch if you can't build the box yourself (lack of tools).

If it was me, I would go with a 3.5cu ft enclosure from the site I sent you above. At that point you just need to buy some wood glue and maybe some clamps to assemble the box. Then I would buy some primer and paint (spray cans work great, just go online and learn how to properly use spray paint and what techniques to follow). Probably looking at $40 or so for all this.

This does not leave you too much for a woofer and amp. You could get something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-1262w-1200-Watt-High-Performance/dp/B0028AYIXK/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1359747460&sr=1-6&keywords=Infinity+Reference

And put it in a smaller enclosure (say 2.25 to 3ft) and then add an amp like this:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=301-508

The trick will be getting the 12" driver to fit the enclosure (pre-cut) and you would want to contact Erich at the DIY Sound Group to see what he can do for you.

If you want to put a little more money into this, you could get a woofer like this one for a 3.5 cu ft enclosure from the above:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-190

This will give you more output and extension, but it clearly costs more and you would need a beefier amp to really benefit. I would go with an external amp like an Inuke 1000 that can be found for around $175 shipped. But you would need around $450 for the above.

Ported subs are a great way to go, but if you don't have any tools, will be more difficult to build. Ported subs are typically larger as well.
Edited by ack_bk - 2/1/13 at 1:18pm
post #5 of 48
If you don't have any tools at all then your best bet would probably be a subwoofer kit from Parts Express. PE has a bunch of kits which include the cabinet: link.

Just about any DIY solution will end up costing more than $300 if you don't already have tools, since you'll need to invest in tools (such as clamps) to put the box together.
post #6 of 48
Thread Starter 
I'm taking a safety course so I can use the college machine shop, but I'm not sure exactly what they have. If they have a table saw I can definitely make the cabinet myself, but I don't know. What should I look for in terms of an amp/driver/plans?
post #7 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by edlittle View Post

I'm taking a safety course so I can use the college machine shop, but I'm not sure exactly what they have. If they have a table saw I can definitely make the cabinet myself, but I don't know. What should I look for in terms of an amp/driver/plans?

If you have a Home Depot nearby they will usually make the cuts for you on a full sheet as well with a small charge per cut. The only problem is I have seen them use a dull blade.
post #8 of 48

Unless you think the build will be FUN, just get this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780078&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Home+Audio+Speakers-_-Klipsch-_-82780078

Works great with my BS21s. You do have a center, yes?

Michael


Edited by LastButNotLeast - 2/2/13 at 12:22pm
post #9 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

If you have a Home Depot nearby they will usually make the cuts for you on a full sheet as well with a small charge per cut. The only problem is I have seen them use a dull blade.

There is a Home Depot. Do you think another lumber supply store would do the same? I'll call around and see. I wonder if it would be cheaper and the same quality to have the small charge per cut versus say the RW-12d.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Unless you think the build will be FUN, just get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780078&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Home+Audio+Speakers-_-Klipsch-_-82780078
Works great with my BS21s. You do have a center, yes?
Michael

I was thinking about that actually. I don't have a center but a phantom center works perfectly for me, so my next upgrade is either a sub or floor standers and moving the BS21s to the side surround.
post #10 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by edlittle View Post

There is a Home Depot. Do you think another lumber supply store would do the same? I'll call around and see. I wonder if it would be cheaper and the same quality to have the small charge per cut versus say the RW-12d.
I was thinking about that actually. I don't have a center but a phantom center works perfectly for me, so my next upgrade is either a sub or floor standers and moving the BS21s to the side surround.

You can certainly try. If your college machine shop has a router it will really make life easy for you.

The flat packs are really nice, but with such a tight budget the more you can DIY the better. But if you don't have the tools, or have access to them, and your budget is a tight $300 the RW12 is not a bad way to go. You can always go DIY later. But it would not take much to put together a sub that would be a big upgrade of the RW12.
post #11 of 48
Thread Starter 
How much of an investment do you think I would need to DIY a better sub than the RW12? My budget is not so tight that I can't do that, but would $500 outperform say a PB1000? Taking into account wood, driver, and amp.
post #12 of 48
If you can do the cabinet yourself, you could do it for under $300 with a properly sized ported Infinity 1260W and a 250 watt plate amp.

woofer - $60

amp - $125

4" port - $14

sheet of 3/4" mdf - $35

glue - $5

finishing materials could eat up the rest.

Something like a 16" W x 22" H x 24" D box, with a 4" x 17" port (4" precision port kit) would give you a box approximately 3.5 ft3 internal tuned to 22hz. If you do a good job on the build this will outclass the cheaply made klipsch sub, and have no issues at max output.

Obviously spending more on the driver/amp, and building a bigger box will lead to another level of performance
post #13 of 48
Thread Starter 
Wow that is quite a good deal. What upgrades on the amp and driver are there? Would a bigger/longer port be better? Say $450 for everything except the cabinet?
post #14 of 48
You could basically get a 500 watt amp and a 15" woofer with that budget. The cabinet would need to be around 3 ft3 larger, and at least dual 4" ports needed

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-468

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=PA500

22" W x 24" H x 28" D box, a pair of 4" x 23" ports (would have to use PVC or ABS pipe). Would be good for about 6db more output then the 3.5 ft3 250watt 1260 sub above.
post #15 of 48
Thread Starter 
Are there plans somewhere for how to make that box? Is it just normal PVC pipe or a special pipe made out of PVC? Thanks for all the help.
post #16 of 48
Nope, no plans. Just sketch it out on a piece of paper is what I usually do. When you account for the 3/4" panel thickness, it's pretty easy to figure out what size the 6 outer panels need to be. You can then plan out a few braces that fit inside as well.

The port would just be 4" pipe you find at HD or Lowes cut to the size you need.
post #17 of 48
Thread Starter 
Do the braces have to be any particular distance? Does the driver have to be a certain distance up for down from the sides? Do the ports have to be any specific height? Could I sketch something up in Solidworks and have you look at it?
post #18 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by edlittle View Post

Do the braces have to be any particular distance? Does the driver have to be a certain distance up for down from the sides? Do the ports have to be any specific height? Could I sketch something up in Solidworks and have you look at it?


Personally I would recommend scouring the build threads on this site to get ideas. Hometheatershack is another forum where there are tons of build threads. Take a few days and read through as many as you can to get ideas. It should help answer a lot of your questions and you can always steal someone else's build and duplicate what they did.

I would also recommend downloading Winisd Pro to do some modeling:
http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro

Here is quick guide on how to use it:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-general-discussion/6330-winisd-pro-tutorial-download-detailed-guide-how-use-winisd-pro.html#axzz2JmDnoq00

If you can go with a larger box, check out this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1448773/my-new-year-s-resolution-dual-dayton-dvc385-ported-build-diy-ht-speaker-room-acoustics-upgrade

That is a $119 woofer.

But you would want a good amp to power it, a 500 watt amp should be fine.
post #19 of 48
Thread Starter 
I'll definitely keep looking through here and seeing what I can find. Thanks so much both of you for all your help! Do you think something like this amp: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=301-512 with the Dayton DVC385 would be good in a similar ported box as that thread? I will definitely keep reading up on everything and keep this thread updated.
post #20 of 48
There are 2 or 3 drivers you should consider for such a budget. 1) Infinity 1260W 2) Dayton DVC385 3) Dayton DVC315

Add a 200W or 300W Yung Amp and a DIY Sound group enclosure.... smile.gif
post #21 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by edlittle View Post

I'll definitely keep looking through here and seeing what I can find. Thanks so much both of you for all your help! Do you think something like this amp: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=301-512 with the Dayton DVC385 would be good in a similar ported box as that thread? I will definitely keep reading up on everything and keep this thread updated.

That should be a nice combo. It would walk all over the Klipsch sub. I would also look into an amp like this one:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/NU1000DSP.aspx

It should give you more output (bridge mode) and has EQ which allows you to put in filters to either limit or boost power where you want to. And if you wanted to add a matching second sub down the road, you would be able to do that if with this amp. On the negative side it is a little loud (there are simple and cheap fan mods out there) and is external and a little ugly smile.gif

I see them brand new on Ebay for $250-270 shipped all the time.
post #22 of 48
Thread Starter 
Hmm that's definitely not very pretty. Do you personally think that the EQ is worth it? It will be just me listening so I'm not too worried about room response. I think that by the time I upgrade to a second sub I'll have an actual theater room and be able to get an actual EQ. I also don't think I have any room left on our Ikea coffee table turned TV stand tongue.gif
post #23 of 48
Thread Starter 
Taking the information gained from the very helpful people here, especially ack_bk and Jay1, I've decided to go for a Dayton 390HF 15" driver in a ported box. I'll be making it around 6.5 ft 3 but I'm still messing with the setting in WinISD. I only have 22 inches of width to work with so I would like to know:

Do the dimensions matter of the box, or is it only the volume? I'm looking forward to building and updating this thread as I go.
post #24 of 48
Yup the dimensions arent really important, just the volume.
post #25 of 48
Thread Starter 
Awesome! I believe I'll be going with an 8 cu ft box tuned to 19 Hz (tuning is just the length of the port right)? How would a Behringer A500 work to power the 390HF with enough headroom?
post #26 of 48
You're going to need a high pass filter for a ported sub, which is built into plate amps.
post #27 of 48
Thread Starter 
Ah okay. I was messing around with the high pass butterworths in WinISD and was going to ask how to implement that in real life. So if I get, say, this Yung 500W, how would I use the high pass filter? You said it's built in, but does it automatically filter, or do I have to adjust settings on the amp? Thanks smile.gif
post #28 of 48
Well, you dont want want that amp for a typical ported build. Add a parametric EQ of 6db boost at 25hz and see what that does to your response. People on this forum have also reported ALL of the Yung amps have 30hz HPF's, making them a bad choice for most builds. The amp I linked you in post #14 clearly states a 20hz filter making it easy to predict. All of the plate amp's filters are built in and always on, most dont say anywhere what the frequency is though, most have been figured out over time.
post #29 of 48
Thread Starter 
So I added the para EQ and boy did that make the lower end bump! The only problem is that now the rear port air velocity is around 130 ft/sec and I've seen it recommended to be max of 55 ft/sec, and the excursion is almost double the recommended. I have an 8 cu ft box tuned to 16 Hz with 500 watts and the 25 Hz para EQ of 6 db and a 20 Hz HPF order 2.
post #30 of 48
It's hard to model max output with boost. 6db means 4 times as much power, so you would use 125 watts to model 6 db of boost with a 500 watt amp, but that is only for the region receiving boost. The area above the boosted region will receive more power, and the boosted region will compress eventually, but you cant model that.

You're also not gaining to much tuning below the high pass filter. This comparison is showing your 8 ft3 16hz, vs the 6.5 ft3 20hz I proposed earlier. The much larger lower tuned box only has 0.5 db more at 20hz and 1 db more below 20hz output when a 20hz HPF is factored in.




Youre also pushing past xmax in the large low tune. The 8 ft3 cabinet tuned to 20hz would be a good choice.
Edited by Jay1 - 2/6/13 at 7:27pm
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