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Max speaker distance settings - what distances do the current pre processors support?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I need a preamp processor for a new HT project and wanted to make sure my configuration will be supported. I'm looking at around 21ft for the speakers and 30-40 for the sub. Feasible?
post #2 of 11
You haven't said anything about the amps. A pre/pro can't be connected directly to speakers unless those speakers contain builtin amplifiers (aka active speakers). How far you can send "line level" signals, like those coming out of pre/pros, depends on the type of cabling and how much electrical noise is in your environment. 21 ft is rather long for RCA cables, but OK when using balanced (XLR) cables. Amps can drive speakers through thick speaker cables for much longer distances.
post #3 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve71 View Post

I need a preamp processor for a new HT project and wanted to make sure my configuration will be supported. I'm looking at around 21ft for the speakers and 30-40 for the sub. Feasible?

This must be a very big room! Maybe a church? For best support care to share a couple of pictures?
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

You haven't said anything about the amps. A pre/pro can't be connected directly to speakers unless those speakers contain builtin amplifiers (aka active speakers). How far you can send "line level" signals, like those coming out of pre/pros, depends on the type of cabling and how much electrical noise is in your environment. 21 ft is rather long for RCA cables, but OK when using balanced (XLR) cables. Amps can drive speakers through thick speaker cables for much longer distances.


The speakers (mains) are DIY tri-amp Altec Horns. The crossover is a digital dbx unit and the amps are crown d series. I will be running three sets of speaker wire to each front speaker. Not exactly sure what I'm going to do for the surrounds yet.

Some old pics in my last room
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1217536/lets-see-pics-of-your-stereo-setup/240#post_20272140
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

This must be a very big room! Maybe a church? For best support care to share a couple of pictures?

The building is 30x40ft but I most likely will be building horn subs so I have to take into account the path length of the horns when setting the pre pro. In other words the distance settings may just be the limiting factor on how long I can build a horn sub.

A little more info and a pic of the building here

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1454635/uber-light-cannon-for-250-280-scope-screen
post #5 of 11
Considering how much effort you've put into the system, it seems to me that XLR cabling from the start would be appropriate rather than fighting with RCA cabling and finding out the hard way where it's inadequate. Unfortunately, that suggests a relatively expensive pre/pro, unless you use RCA-to-XLR adapters.

I must admit I don't know what the limitations are in the distance settings in the pre/pro calibration software.
post #6 of 11
On D&M models the max speaker/sub distance setting is 60' (although actual max distance for a sub is likely closer to only 35-40' as a longer distance is used to account for delay caused by the sub filters). Another consideration may be the distance between the AVR/pre-pro and the main listening position. With Audyssey (Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, NAD) the max distance is roughly 50' using the the stock Audyssey mic and 1 additional 25' connector while this distance can extend beyond 120' if using the Audyssey Pro kit mic.
Edited by jdsmoothie - 2/1/13 at 5:35pm
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Considering how much effort you've put into the system, it seems to me that XLR cabling from the start would be appropriate rather than fighting with RCA cabling and finding out the hard way where it's inadequate. Unfortunately, that suggests a relatively expensive pre/pro, unless you use RCA-to-XLR adapters.

I must admit I don't know what the limitations are in the distance settings in the pre/pro calibration software.

Believe me when I say you have to have your gain structure spot on when working with super efficient horns (112db/w/m). Any background noise will be so obvious. Heck, just finding amps that were suitable was an ordeal. I think +4dbu pre/pro is the way to go, but the crossover I'm using has a -10/+4 dbu switch on the input, so it work just fine with a -10dbu pre/pro. But using the right tool for the job will give me more options on active crossovers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

On D&M models the max speaker/sub distance setting is 60' (although actual max distance for a sub is likely closer to only 35-40' as a longer distance is used to account for delay caused by the sub filters). Another consideration may be the distance between the AVR/pre-pro and the main listening position. With Audyssey (Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, NAD) the max distance is roughly 50' using the the stock Audyssey mic and 1 additional 25' connector while this distance can extend beyond 120' if using the Audyssey Pro kit mic.

That sounds encouraging, thanks for posting!! I haven't followed the pre/pro market in a long time. Are you saying that as long as I use a pre/pro with audssey +pro mike kit, then the speaker/sub distance can be set at high as 120'. Or are you saying that 120' is the max distance between the mic and the pre/pro?
post #8 of 11
mic and pre-pro ...
post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
OK got it thanks! Looks like I can't get too carried away with a super low horn then... unless I build it as a riser or something. 35-40ft leaves about 15-20ft of horn. IIRC (and it's been awhile since I've used hornsrep) that gets an f3 in the 25hz +/-.
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve71 View Post

Believe me when I say you have to have your gain structure spot on when working with super efficient horns (112db/w/m). Any background noise will be so obvious. Heck, just finding amps that were suitable was an ordeal. I think +4dbu pre/pro is the way to go, but the crossover I'm using has a -10/+4 dbu switch on the input, so it work just fine with a -10dbu pre/pro. But using the right tool for the job will give me more options on active crossovers.
That sounds encouraging, thanks for posting!! I haven't followed the pre/pro market in a long time. Are you saying that as long as I use a pre/pro with audssey +pro mike kit, then the speaker/sub distance can be set at high as 120'. Or are you saying that 120' is the max distance between the mic and the pre/pro?

Just to add to what JD said, the Audyssey pro system isn't just a mic, it's a several hundred dollar system that uses a different mic, and requires a separate license from Audyssey for each device on which it is used. THere's a whole thread on the AUdyssey pro system if you are interested.
post #11 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Just to add to what JD said, the Audyssey pro system isn't just a mic, it's a several hundred dollar system that uses a different mic, and requires a separate license from Audyssey for each device on which it is used. THere's a whole thread on the AUdyssey pro system if you are interested.

The utility closet in the building is only about 15ft from the center of the room, where I'd place the mic, so that shouldn't be a problem. I'm guessing Audyssey pro does more than just allow for a longer mic cable...

Anyway I have a long way to go till it's time for pre-pro shopping.

Thanks for all the help guys!
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