I blew out my tweeter on my Polk tsi300.

post #31 of 41

2/4/13 at 1:41pm

arnyk
Trader Feedback: 0
Arnold B. Krueger
offline

7,431 Posts. Joined 10/2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Select All Posts By This User

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokekevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnyk

Just want to remind you guys that volume control settings are uncalibrated until you calibrate the receiver with a SPL meter or something like it (Audyssey), and so whatever number you read off the volume control, it is what it is, but it means nothing in particular.

When you say calibrate does that mean the same as setting all the speakers to 75dB with a test tone?

If you set up your AVR so that a certain dB setting on it corresponds to a certain dB SPL. then it is calibrated. Usually this is done with a band of noise that covers some range of frequencies around 400 Hz - 1 Khz.

The volume control knobs on modern AVRs seem to have reliable calibrations since they went to using digitally controlled precision attenuators.

But exactly what xx dB according them means is still a mystery until we know how many dB SPL coming out of the speaker that relates to.

Reply

post #32 of 41

2/4/13 at 1:43pm

119 Posts. Joined 1/2013
Select All Posts By This User

The less speakers you drive the more watts they get. Compare that yamaha to this. http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-61-av-receiver

Reply

post #33 of 41

2/4/13 at 1:44pm

arnyk
Trader Feedback: 0
Arnold B. Krueger
offline

7,431 Posts. Joined 10/2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Select All Posts By This User

Quote:

Originally Posted by wronganswer

Those yamaha avr's are know to go low on watts when driving 5 and 7 channels, and that is why he blew that tweeter http://www.hometheater.com/content/yamaha-rx-v871-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

This turns out to be an audiophile myth as applied to AVRs playing music through speakers. It does happen on the test bench when they are playing pure tones and driving load resistors. The latter is done because it is required by law and international standards, but there is some asymmetry between those standards and actual use.

The core problem is, as I have shown here several times other threads, that test tones have a ton more energy for a given amplitude than does music, even heavily clipped music.

Reply

post #34 of 41

2/4/13 at 1:45pm

Thread Starter

208 Posts. Joined 11/2009
Location: Atlanta, GA.
Select All Posts By This User

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnyk

This turns out to be an audiophile myth as applied to AVRs playing music through speakers. It does happen on the test bench when they are playing pure tones and driving load resistors. The latter is done because it is required by law and international standards, but there is some asymmetry between those standards and actual use.

The core problem is, as I have shown here several times other threads, that test tones have a ton more energy for a given amplitude than does music, even heavily clipped music.

Does that mean I should or shouldn't be worried about the receiver?

Reply

post #35 of 41

2/4/13 at 1:47pm

arnyk
Trader Feedback: 0
Arnold B. Krueger
offline

7,431 Posts. Joined 10/2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Select All Posts By This User

Quote:

Originally Posted by wronganswer

The less speakers you drive the more watts they get. Compare that yamaha to this. http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-61-av-receiver

More to the point:

HT Labs Measures
Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 127.2 watts
1% distortion at 150.3 watts

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 109.0 watts
1% distortion at 127.7 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 99.4 watts
1% distortion at 110.3 watts

which comes from a later page of the cited article.

The problem with the above is that they were done on a test bench with continuous tones and a resistive load.

It is easy to show that real world speakers and music put far less stress on the AVR, and I have done so twice in the past few days.

Reply

post #36 of 41

2/4/13 at 1:48pm

119 Posts. Joined 1/2013
Select All Posts By This User

Your reciever is fine. Yamaha avr's are not a good match for low end Polks. You need more efficient speakers or a more powerful avr

Reply

post #37 of 41

2/4/13 at 1:49pm

arnyk
Trader Feedback: 0
Arnold B. Krueger
offline

7,431 Posts. Joined 10/2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Select All Posts By This User

Quote:

Originally Posted by likemovies

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnyk

This turns out to be an audiophile myth as applied to AVRs playing music through speakers. It does happen on the test bench when they are playing pure tones and driving load resistors. The latter is done because it is required by law and international standards, but there is some asymmetry between those standards and actual use.

The core problem is, as I have shown here several times other threads, that test tones have a ton more energy for a given amplitude than does music, even heavily clipped music.

Does that mean I should or shouldn't be worried about the receiver?

You shouldn't be worried about running multiple channels concurrently dragging down the max power available, such as happens in bench testing.

You could still make the AVR clip by expecting more power than it can make and be linear.

I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with a way that audiophiles could reliably tell when they are causing their AVRs to distort excessively without relying on their ears and speakers. No joy!

Reply

post #38 of 41

2/4/13 at 1:50pm

arnyk
Trader Feedback: 0
Arnold B. Krueger
offline

7,431 Posts. Joined 10/2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Select All Posts By This User

Quote:

Originally Posted by wronganswer

Your reciever is fine. Yamaha avr's are not a good match for low end Polks. You need more efficient speakers or a more powerful avr

I'd like to see a technical explanation for that with some reliable evidence.

Reply

post #39 of 41

2/4/13 at 10:35pm

679 Posts. Joined 1/2011
Select All Posts By This User

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnyk

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokekevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by 67jason

Too little power results in clipping. Clipped peaks cause speaker damage. I blew the tweeters in my monitor 70's by pushing my denon 1611 to +5 on the volume scale, obviously my fault.. Upgraded to an onkyo 809 and all was fine until I moved into my new house with a larger space and having my listening position much further away from my speakers. Blew the second tweeter without even trying. Added an xpa-5 and no more blown tweeters at or near reference level volume readings.
Lower power receivers are fine as long as you respect the volume levels and turn it down when you hear distortion or harshness.....and don't have your main listening position too far away.

When I had my 1611 I would NEVER dare go past -10 in my room lol! You crazy!

Just want to remind you guys that volume control settings are uncalibrated until you calibrate the receiver with a SPL meter or something like it (Audyssey), and so whatever number you read off the volume control, it is what it is, but it means nothing in particular.

I know that.....have been using audyssey for some time. I can tell you that +5 on the denon's volume control was really really really loud...but I was too uh..intoxicated to care.