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VT 65" now or May for the ZT

post #1 of 37
2/3/13 at 11:33pm
Thread Starter 
Just moved and it is time to upgrade my TV and I want to go with the Panasonic 65" - however I have a use for the ole Pioneer 50" in a new location...what am I missing out on besides spending an extra 1500 on the upcoming ZT, having everything installed and fished through the walls so it would be a pain to relocate the Tv after a few months if I wait to upgrade...
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post #2 of 37
2/4/13 at 12:06am
The ZT will be better... A bit blacker blacks, a bit redder reds (at least with post-Rec. 709 content, maybe generally). Is that worth the extra $1500 or so? For some people yes, for most people no.

I have a VT50; it's really nice. You'll probably like it. And you'll be able to feel smart for saving the money, even though you won't have the absolute best in picture quality.
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post #3 of 37
2/4/13 at 9:25pm
Thread Starter 
I have a Pioneer PDP 5070 PU right now - is the quality of the VT 65" going to be at least equal to that of the TV I have right now?
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post #4 of 37
2/4/13 at 11:55pm
In my opinion yes, there is no question.

I'm sure you can find Pioneer fans that disagree.
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post #5 of 37
2/5/13 at 6:32am
The 70 was 7g. As a former 8g and 9g owner, I'd put the Vt50 between 8g and 9g for black levels.
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post #6 of 37
2/5/13 at 4:27pm
Thread Starter 
Ok thanks for that numerical comparison, I can live with the VT it sounds like just like I lived without the Elite before

The VT has wireless streaming built in? Is there any reason for Apple TV?
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post #7 of 37
2/6/13 at 2:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

In my opinion yes, there is no question.

I'm sure you can find Pioneer fans that disagree.
Now these people would be truly lost causes. smile.gif
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post #8 of 37
2/6/13 at 2:21am
They would also be correct. smile.gif
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post #9 of 37
2/6/13 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dapuma View Post

Ok thanks for that numerical comparison, I can live with the VT it sounds like just like I lived without the Elite before

The VT has wireless streaming built in? Is there any reason for Apple TV?

I find the built-in clients to be mediocre on the VT. I have used the Amazon and the Netflix. Both are adequate, neither is especially good. Typically, I use Netflix and Amazon on my PS3 (although I'm sure Netflix is fine on the AppleTV, the PS3 has both, along with Vudu). You could try it out without an AppleTV, see if you like it well enough, and always add the AppleTV later.
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post #10 of 37
2/6/13 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I find the built-in clients to be mediocre on the VT. I have used the Amazon and the Netflix. Both are adequate, neither is especially good. Typically, I use Netflix and Amazon on my PS3 (although I'm sure Netflix is fine on the AppleTV, the PS3 has both, along with Vudu). You could try it out without an AppleTV, see if you like it well enough, and always add the AppleTV later.

I think a lot of people find Smart TVs in general to not live up to their expectations. There can be issues with updates, etc. The standalone STBs (ATV, Roku, etc), the integrated blu-ray players (PS3, blu-ray players) seem to have a more robust set of apps and are more trouble-free. My blu-ray player has built-in WiFi and I have an AppleTV2 as well. There's some redundancy but either one is easy to upgrade without affecting the tv at all and both have been absolutely trouble-free. However, it seems to be hard to find a tv nowadays that isn't "smart".
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post #11 of 37
2/6/13 at 12:05pm
I would wait for the ZT (and consider the Samsung F8500).
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post #12 of 37
2/6/13 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

I think a lot of people find Smart TVs in general to not live up to their expectations. There can be issues with updates, etc. The standalone STBs (ATV, Roku, etc), the integrated blu-ray players (PS3, blu-ray players) seem to have a more robust set of apps and are more trouble-free. My blu-ray player has built-in WiFi and I have an AppleTV2 as well. There's some redundancy but either one is easy to upgrade without affecting the tv at all and both have been absolutely trouble-free. However, it seems to be hard to find a tv nowadays that isn't "smart".

Yeah, I wouldn't rule out any TV based on smart features or rule it in based on them either. Rokus and AppleTVs are just ridiculously cheap and many of us have a PS3 or Xbox 360 already as well.

Some people, however, like just having the features built in and actually use the TV remote... For them, the appeal of the internal apps is clear. So it's fair for them to at least evaluate how well they work and make a choice accordingly.
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post #13 of 37
2/6/13 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grexeo View Post

I would wait for the ZT (and consider the Samsung F8500).

Agreed...I think alot of people will be pleasantly suprised by the sammy
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post #14 of 37
2/6/13 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

...

I have a VT50; it's really nice. You'll probably like it. And you'll be able to feel smart for saving the money, even though you won't have the absolute best in picture quality.

+1

Wes
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post #15 of 37
2/7/13 at 7:36am
I was that close to buying the VT as the prices are great right now. I ended up waiting for the ZT as I tend to own TVs for a very long time. My current TV is about a decade old and still has a great picture (65813) but I'm ready for a new TV only due to the space I'll get back. I don't think you can make a wrong decision but the supposed better motion on the ZT is enough to get me to wait as I still notice that motion (no matter what the source) isn't as good on a plasma as a CRT. Most people don't notice motion issues and so they buy LCD TVs but if you notice them as much as I do, it might be worth the wait.
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post #16 of 37
2/7/13 at 9:00am
10 years? That's impressive fortitude. It looks like you bought one right around (or after) the time you joined AVS. How you've held out this long, I'll never know. wink.gif

I've been through at least 4 since joining (mainly due to a combination of LCD unhappiness and size envy at the beginning followed by wanting to grab what I thought was the best Kuro, the Elite, at the time, which I've enjoyed for four years). :X
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post #17 of 37
2/7/13 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

I was that close to buying the VT as the prices are great right now. I ended up waiting for the ZT as I tend to own TVs for a very long time. My current TV is about a decade old and still has a great picture (65813) but I'm ready for a new TV only due to the space I'll get back. I don't think you can make a wrong decision but the supposed better motion on the ZT is enough to get me to wait as I still notice that motion (no matter what the source) isn't as good on a plasma as a CRT. Most people don't notice motion issues and so they buy LCD TVs but if you notice them as much as I do, it might be worth the wait.

So you passed on the 8g and 9g Kuro's but are holding out for what might be minimal gains in a ZT at about a 2K premium over a VT when OLED is right around the corner?
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post #18 of 37
2/7/13 at 9:17am
To be fair, OLED has been "right around the corner" for years.
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post #19 of 37
2/7/13 at 9:41am
^^^^

True that but still....even if OLED isn't right around the corner why pay about 2k over current VT prices when the person wasn't moved to buy a Kuro? That Sony Boe has had to be about 5 years old when the Kuro's arrived and he passed on them. 4K is coming but that too could be a couple of years out before it's affordable. Anyways, it's Boe's life and I hope the ZT is worth waiting for and that it is all everyone hopes it to be.
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post #20 of 37
2/7/13 at 9:43am
Yea, the $2k premium seems a bit rich for someone in his position. Didn't realize the 2012 model was being firesold. wink.gif
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post #21 of 37
2/7/13 at 10:14am
Yeah, Vinnie. I paid aboutr $2300 pre taxes for mine. Needed a bigger tv as the room I use now is much bigger than when i had a 50" Elite Kuro. 1st impulse was to buy a 60" Elite but people want about $3500 for one. The VT looked like a bargain in comparison. I give up some in black levels and some of the Kuro "wow" but I get 65" and save $1200.

That said, in all honesty, if the ZT is Kuro good....the VT goes up for sale.
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post #22 of 37
2/8/13 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

So you passed on the 8g and 9g Kuro's but are holding out for what might be minimal gains in a ZT at about a 2K premium over a VT when OLED is right around the corner?

We don't really know the price of the ZT - but I would be stunned if the price was more than $1000 more than the current price of the VT by July. There are already sites selling with glasses and other stuff for about $1400 more than the VT which doesn't come with glasses (mind you I don't really care about the 3D). Motion is extremely important to me and frankly I notice motion issues even on the current VT compared to my monstrously deep old crt. It doesn't matter if it is playing OTA or from disc, I notice it.

As for not getting a KURO - I was waiting for the next Kuro which never happened. Rumor had it they had made a deal to get 70" glass production so they could offer a bigger KURO. My current screen is a 65" anything smaller would be a downgrade. And as much as newbies might think newer tech is always better, CRTs STILL have advantages over Plasma although they are ridiculously deep compared to plasmas or LCD/LED.

OLED is right around the corner if I want to pay $4000 more for a dinky 55" TV - hardly an upgrade.

In 4 years or so when I can get a 4K, 80" TV with HDMI 2.0 at a reasonable price, I'll move my ZT to the bedroom.
Edited by boe - 2/8/13 at 10:47am
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post #23 of 37
2/8/13 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsokolosky View Post

+1

Wes

You could also get the VT50 now, enjoy it for two years, then sell it and buy the ZT70 or whatever 2014 model trumps the ZT60's black levels, and gloat at all the poor saps saddled with the ZT60's antiquarian tech.

Or you could buy a VT50 right now, and just enjoy it for the next ten years, as it's a fantastic set.
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post #24 of 37
2/8/13 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Yeah, Vinnie. I paid aboutr $2300 pre taxes for mine.

Such a steal.
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post #25 of 37
2/8/13 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronManFan View Post


Or you could buy a VT50 right now, and just enjoy it for the next ten years, as it's a fantastic set.

I guess I wasn't clear - I've set up the VT50 for my sister (I set up a LOT of HT systems) and I noticed the motion on it a lot in comparison to my CRT. I spent a great deal of time tweaking, testing it with different sources, including direct OTA, DVD and cable box and all seemed jittery. I'm not saying it was jumpier than the LCDs I've watched, just that it isn't nearly as smooth as my old CRT. I would not enjoy owning a TV that didn't have fluid motion. Some people don't notice the motion issues on LCD TVs vs. Plasma. Some people don't notice the motion issues on plasma vs. CRT. However since I do notice it, the current VT would not be a good fit for my needs. In my case even though the VT is 10 years newer than my set, it would be a downgrade for my needs.

Some people might think it is in my head but just because I couldn't tell you the difference between a $5 and a $500 bottle of wine, I doubt the difference is those wines is just in the head of people who appreciate wine.
Edited by boe - 2/8/13 at 12:13pm
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post #26 of 37
2/8/13 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

In my opinion yes, there is no question.

I'm sure you can find Pioneer fans that disagree.
How would you know that, until the set comes out and is reviewed you and anyone else wouldnothave any real data to stand on, so please keep the fanboy in you out of steering someone to a product you have no real world info on.
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post #27 of 37
2/8/13 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

We don't really know the price of the ZT - but I would be stunned if the price was more than $1000 more than the current price of the VT by July. There are already sites selling with glasses and other stuff for about $1400 more than the VT which doesn't come with glasses (mind you I don't really care about the 3D). Motion is extremely important to me and frankly I notice motion issues even on the current VT compared to my monstrously deep old crt. It doesn't matter if it is playing OTA or from disc, I notice it.

As for not getting a KURO - I was waiting for the next Kuro which never happened. Rumor had it they had made a deal to get 70" glass production so they could offer a bigger KURO. My current screen is a 65" anything smaller would be a downgrade. And as much as newbies might think newer tech is always better, CRTs STILL have advantages over Plasma although they are ridiculously deep compared to plasmas or LCD/LED.

OLED is right around the corner if I want to pay $4000 more for a dinky 55" TV - hardly an upgrade.

In 4 years or so when I can get a 4K, 80" TV with HDMI 2.0 at a reasonable price, I'll move my ZT to the bedroom.

We all support you in any decision you make and I don't think any of us is judging you. FYI, the Panasonic Insider wrote that VE which has the ZT60 listed for preorder at about 3900 was close to MSRP. I'd say rogo was right to have it at about 4200.
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post #28 of 37
2/8/13 at 3:57pm
Anyone want to make the argument why 2014 will not be the last year of improvements when it comes to Panasonic plasmas?

The smartest move IF you want to buy a plasma might be 2014--the last chance for the best that Panasonic will ever make.
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post #29 of 37
2/8/13 at 6:58pm
Thread Starter 
I went to go look at the VT in person and there was a silver edge around it at Best Buy, I was assuming that was the stand for it, can anyone confirm that wall mounting that will eliminate that silver edge

I agree the price you can get on the VT is pretty incredibile

Now some of the furniture of the new place wont be delivered until May...oh the agony of making the decison harder by giving me more of a chance to wait

Good to know the smart TV isnt that reliable I know that PS3 can do most of the streaming apps, I really just wanted the Apple TV for the "cool" factor of people being able to put their pictures on the screen and use their playlists etc
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post #30 of 37
2/8/13 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Anyone want to make the argument why 2014 will not be the last year of improvements when it comes to Panasonic plasmas?

The smartest move IF you want to buy a plasma might be 2014--the last chance for the best that Panasonic will ever make.

There is a big speculation on the press about 2013 being the last year Panasonic will produce plasma displays. I believe it will all depend on the success or not of the new lineup. Where I live , south Florida, the stores are showing very few plasma models and the sales people claim they make more money with Samsung,Sony and LG LCDs/LEDs. As an owner of 3 Panny plasmas , I hope the consumers can be educated and appreciate a much better picture.I
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