Question about XS30 vs Vtf-15h

Xs30 all the way pb12 Nsd can be compared to the vtf15h

Really?!

Actually the VTF-15H has much more output and useable extension than the PB12 NSD. It is closer to a PB12+.

I would like to see a comparison of the XS30 vs a VTF-15H. XS30 would have more extension I would guess but the VTF-15H with its variable tuning is ported and should have very close output near the tuning frequency with one port open.

It would be great if Ricci could measure an XS30 and a VTF-15H so we really knew how these two compared. I would probably go with a XS30 or even an XV30 if you can make that monster fit and WAF is not an issue.

The 15H is closer to the 13 ultra (pre sledge). I've had both in my room, though I have dual 15Hs.

Keep in mind that the s30 is sealed and the 15H is ported. I doubt anyone here has had both.

P.S. if I was looking for sealed it would be on my top 5 list.

Here is a link that includes a review and some measurement:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-subwoofers/64133-power-sound-audio-xs30-first-impressions.html#axzz2JzouU7HI

I have been subscribed to the PSA forum for a while now and I don't think you will see a professional review of the XS30 anytime soon, just based off what I previously read. The reason being that the demand is already greater than the supply so what sense would it make to get the unit reviewed, and then if favorable not have the means to produce what the demand requests. Again this is just what I read a while back. As with anything, this could change tomorrow if they are caught up on back orders and or have the capability to produce more units.

What would the xv15 be compaired to?

That makes less sense then fear of a negative outcome from a professional review.


Not saying the xs 30 has anything to fear...just stating the obvious.

I think it makes sense. Here is what Tom said not too long ago. They have had one sub reviewed and tested and are a fairly new company and the xs30 hasn't been out that long and has already sold out before.

"We actually pulled back one review and one "GTG show piece" we had planned for the XS30. It just doesn't make much sense to actively pursue more exposure/sales on a product when current demand already exceeds production capabilities. Also, I know Jim Wilson is quite backed up with commitments too. Perhaps things will align in 2-3 months and we'll catch up with orders as Jim catches up on reviews..


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio"

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1372020/power-sound-audio-discussion-thread/840#post_22750987

Here is a post Mark Seaton explains his stance on the subject with the submersive.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/7200#post_22537936

My opinion between the 15H and xs30 is you can't really go wrong and will enjoy either one. Others here have pointed out the differences and both are solid choices:)

I don't think its a fear of a back review. The XS30 does everything a XV15 does and more, and that sub received a great review from Audioholics. My understanding from talking with Tom is PSA literally can't make the XS30s fast enough, so far everyone they make is already sold. So why give a sub to someone to review when he has a paid customer waiting for their sub. I think eventually you'll see a review, just not anytime soon.

The benefit I see with the XS30 are several fold. The first and most obvious, it has two 15" drivers in a sealed case. This gives one the equivalent output of a 18" sub and gives one the addition of two drivers in which to help smooth out a room's acoustical interaction with the sub's output. Another is the compact form two drivers in one case offers. A third is the price savings of two 15" drivers in one box. In my opinion, the XS30 is the steal when compared to other comparable choices and in my opinion, the XS30 compares in output to the offerings by SubMersive and Funk Audio.

I would like to see a pair of XS30's compare to a pair of Funk or SubMersives at a GTG. In our case, the best placement is hidden so the obvious "beautacious" benefit of SubMersive and Funk Audio offerings are not a consideration as the subs are hidden behind some really big easy chairs. We can thank REW for this relocation effort.

The consumer benefits when there's competition.

I understand the benefits of sealed dual opposed design. Personally, I would rather have two sealed 15" single subs in a slightly smaller cabinet so I could further smooth out room response and have more sources.

But you also have to look at the pros of a larger ported box (VTF-15H) that has variable tuning. There are pros and cons to both designs. If I had a big room and could only buy one sub I would probably go ported. Hence why I also mentioned the XV30.

Seems pretty logical to me. Besides PSA's ground plane measurements of their subs seem pretty accurate. You can always use those as a baseline for measurement.

And when one thinks about it, a pair of XS30's, by comparison, can be had for a very nice price. Now one has four 15" drivers (more sources) smoothing out the room's acoustical response.

Mark Seaton has a similar argument for the SubM and not wanting/needing a professional review.

Yes, more is almost always better. I have four subs now and would really like to build another 2-4. In theory you can get roughly the same benefit from stacking two sealed subs vs buying dual opposed, and you also get the benefit of splitting them up in the room if you prefer to.

Not sure of your point. Two stacked, seal subs take up far more space then one XS30 and if you have two XS30's, you can split them, each to be placed in separate locations. And if one were to buy four, 15" subwoofers, it's going cost far more than two XS30's. So I'm not sure the point you're trying to make in your above when compared to a pair of XS30's.

My view point is from the view point of a consumer of finished products and what my viewpoint is of the XS30 when compared to the Hsu, VTF-15H. My comments do not reflect that of one who's into building their own nor do they reflect my opinion of other available ID subwoofers. My comment that includes SubMersive and Funk Audio is intended to reflect the ever so important WAF (outer physical appearance) and to show that the PSA, XS30 does have the ability to run with the "Big Dogs." The Hsu, VTF-15H would be limited in that sense.

My point is that a dual opposed sub does not magically mean each driver needs less space. Each driver needs an adequate amount of volume to properly perform whether you put it in one larger dual opposed box, or one smaller sealed box. For example if you had two drivers and each required a minimum of 2 cu ft of volume, you could either build two 2 cu ft enclosures or one 4 cu ft enclosure for dual opposed or dual front firing. There is no magic here. If you put two drivers in too small of an enclosure it will affect performance. Let's say you put 2 drivers in a 3 cu ft box and the drivers each really needed 2 cu ft of volume. You would now be limiting their performance. Performance wise you don't really gain anything by having 2 woofers in a 4 cu ft box both feeding off the same powered amp as 2 woofers in individual 2cu ft boxes feeding off the same amp. It is just preference. I see the value in dual opposed and understand why people engineer it and buy it, but again, there is no magic here. Volume is volume.

I have no idea what that means. English please?

Now that I've actually gone DIY recently, my response to any thread discussing subwoofers is "go DIY!!!". Or at least that's what my brain wants me to do.

BeeMan, are you suggesting that the VTF-15H isn't attractive?

Doesn't the XS30 only come in a black Duratex type finish?

It appears that way.

This is how I feel about 99% of his posts.

Just because a sub has two drivers doesn't mean it is two sources which smooth out the room response. It will be seen by the room as a single sub, not multiples. If you want the smoothing effect of multiples, you are going to need a good distance relative to the room's size between the points of sound radiation, in this case, the woofers. Also, just because the XS30 shares the same design form as the Submersive doesn't mean it is as powerful. Given the specs, I would be very surprised if even two XS30s had the output of a single Submersive.

I actually think we should be comparing the XV15 to the VTF15 and not the XS 30. Looking at the measurments done by Ricci on both these units (XV15 and VTF15), it would appear that their performance is essentially the same across 20-63 hz, with the XV15 digging quite a bit deeper. If these measurements are any indication, I would guess the XV15 might even have the overall edge. If that is the case, and only taking the ground plane measurement listed at the PSA site for the XS30, it would also appear that the XS30 is at a level above the 15H. Here is a link to the measurements.



http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/xv-15-subwoofer/Audioholics%20Excel%20compilation-111012.pdf

Look closely, Ricci didn't test the VTF15h. The data sets you are using aren't 100% comparable.

You are correct, I saw the fine print that it was measured by someone else at Audioholics. But aren't they ground plane measurements in any event?

They are, but different people using different gear, different calibrations, different placement, weather, etc. There was a lot of controversy with the Audioholics measurements of the VTF-15H and my best guess is the measurements are off by 2-3db. Sound And Vision also measured using the gorund plane measurements and the numbers are within 1db of what Hsu measured.

I would add about 2-3db to the Audioholics measurements. Do that and it is pretty close to what Hsu measured.