Does your CATV company use physical channel numbers or OTA virtual numbers for local stations?

Cox in my area uses the same virtual channel number that their STBs use. For example, the CBS affiliate (KFMB-DT) is on 1008 either on the STB or as ClearQAM using the TV's tuner. Likewise, the ABC affiliate (KGTV-DT) is on 1010 either way. This method is used on all of the non-encrypted digital channels (about 30 channels.)

I voted for OTA virtual and my local Comcast uses mostly that but a few sub channels have vastly different numbers.

WITHOUT a CableCard or Digital Converter Box, to see Local OTA Digital Channels in HD, you have to tune to the PHYSICAL QAM Channel number, which on most systems are located somewhere ABOVE all of the Analog channels (about 73 max now on TWC-SD??). Just to keep things interesting, the cable systems keep changing the Clear QAM Channel assignments, forcing users to periodically RESCAN (and EDIT out the Encrypted QAM Channels)...what a hassle....

When using a CableCard with a QAM capable HDTV, it remaps the Physical QAM Channel number to the assigned Digital Channel number....which may or may not be same as the OTA Virtual Channel number for Clear OTA Channels. On TWC-SD, Cable Ch5 is remapped from RF Ch19 (69.1), Cable Ch6 is remapped from RF Ch23 (6.1), cable Ch9 is remapped from RF Ch18 (51.1), Cable Ch11 is remapped from RF Ch30 (15.1), whereas Ch8 (8.1) and Ch10 (10.1) don't require remapping.

When Cable Ch5 (69.1) initially fired up their Ch18 DTV transmitter in San Diego, they chose to use their CABLE Channel number as their OTA Virtual Channel number (5), rather than using their ANALOG Channel number (69). This caused problems for some STBs and HDTVs in North San Diego County and along the Coast, since the REAL ANALOG Ch5 in L.A. was using Virtual 5.1 on their Digital broadcast (RF Ch31). Some STBs and HDTVs didn't know how to handle TWO stations using the SAME Virtual Channel number. It took several emails to explain the problem and convince them to use 69.1 as their Virtual Channel Number, thus eliminating the problem as they adhered to the "expected" Virtual Channel number assignment system.....and a later follow up when station personnel changed, who had to be "re-educated"...

So there are lots of different "Channel numbers": OTA RF, OTA Virtual, Cable Analog RF, Cable QAM RF and Cable Digital Virtual Channel Number.
Edited by holl_ands - 2/8/13 at 2:55pm

Well it depends...here in Comcast Minneapolis land

Our Big4 +PBS stations are on their analog broadcasting numbers on cable (2,4,5,9,11)
CW, My and Ion are on 8,10,20 respectively even though they are on OTA 23,29,41

QAM for all those locals match what is OTA (2-1, 4-1, 5-1, 23-1 etc)
All subchannels but one matches OTA. For some reason live Well is 5-7 on OTA but 5-5 on cable (and before you ask, there are 2 RF channels here in Minneapolis that merge their PSIP info....we dont have 7 channels on the ABC)

Religious, pubic access, shopping are just random but the public access, gov't access and educational access the mapping is close. Analog they are 14,15,16 and QAM they are 93-14,93-15,93-16
Oddball is WGN HD. Its 22 analog and 50-1 digital (qam is some weird number)

Cox hasn't changed any ClearQAM channel assignments since they started mirroring the STB channel numbers. KPBS was 1011 two years ago, and it is 1011 today - both on ClearQAM and on a STB.

Why does it matter? Clear QAM is likely going away in most markets, anyway. My cable Co doesn't mess with the tags. If a channel has one it gets passed on, if it doesn't they add one. If there is a tag, what number it shows up as depends on the tuner. On most of my tuners they show up correctly. I do have a Phillips HDD recorder, however, that numbers the first sub-channel it finds as XX.1, the second as XX.2 and so on regardless of the actual sub-channel number.

Greenville SC, Charter ... recently (maybe a year, but time flies) changed the PSIP such that my QAM (directly) connected TV now shows the broadcasters' intended channel numbering. As one specific example, WYFF has 4.1 and 4.2 DISPLAYED via both OTA and Charter. Our cable box, on another set, shows plain 4 for the SD broadcast (in analog), 704 for the 4.1 (1080i) broadcast, and 136 for the 4.2 broadcast. REAL RF ... OTA ... are 36.1 and 36.2. REAL RF, over the cable, is 114.1 and 114.2 (there are 2 HD and 4 SD on this 735MHz channel).

Why? With Cox's method, when they list the channel number on their website, they just list a single channel that's correct for those using a STB and for those using ClearQAM. Same goes for the online guides like Zap2It or TVGuide.com. When they list KFMB on 8 (SD) and 1008 (HD), it's correct no matter if the user is using a STB, or just his TV's tuner. It just makes sense.

Physical (2 & 3 digit), Virtual Cable (4-digit), Virtual OTA and Frequency for COX-SanDiego QAM Channels are listed here:
http://www.sandiegohdtv.org/forums/thread-Cox-ClearQAM-Dec-2012

Physical, Virtual Cable, Virtual OTA and Frequency for TWC-SanDiego QAM Channels are listed here:
77.aaaa, 705 (69.1), 543 MHz
77.bbbb, 706 (6.1), 543 MHz
78.cccc, 707 (7.1), 549 MHz
78.dddd, 708 (8.1), 549 MHz
79.eeee, 709 (51.1), 555 MHz
79.gggg, 710 (10.1), 555 MHz
79.hhhh, 711 (11.1), 555 MHz
Decimal values in QAM Channel Numbers varies, depending on how the user equipment determines this value.....

On CATV systems, FOUR digit CABLE Channel numbers are ALWAYS Virtual numbers, which can be arbitrarily assigned by the cable company (on TWC-SD they are 1, 2, 3 & 4 digits). For those systems still broadcasting an Extended Analog Tier (typically up thru about Ch70-80), Digital QAM Channel numbers within Analog Tier are studiously avoided, since they result in a "blank" or snowy/noise channel when tuning through the Analog Tier. Hence Digital QAM Channel numbers (plus perhaps one to four decimals indicating a sub-channel number) usually start as two digit numbers in the 70's, 80's and 90's plus 100's up to about QAM Ch124, with a 50 MHz protection gap before MOCA at 850-1500 MHz (usually):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_cable_television_frequencies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance

BTW: I would like to see the Cable companies assign the SAME Virtual Channel Number to the HD Tier as they do to the Analog Tier (e.g. Ch5 thru 11). Since it's an arbitrary Virtual number assigned by the cable company, look up tables in HD STB's could be easily reprogrammed to do this. If a rare HD-STB user wanted to tune to the SD version of the OTA HD Channel, let THEM use a four digit Virtual Channel number. And SD STB's would still enter Ch5-11, with THEIR internal look-up table set-up to pick the SD version on the appropriate shared QAM channel.
Edited by holl_ands - 2/8/13 at 2:14pm

BHN in Detroit uses both. Stations on this side of the border get the proper virtual channel in Clear QAM. WDIV is 4.1, WWJ is 62.1, etc. OTOH, CBC Windsor (Virtual 9) is 81.1 or some such.

BHN obviously mirrors the published channel allocation with an STB or CableCard. WDIV is 4 (SD) and 204 (HD), WWJ is 14 (SD) and 214 (HD). CBC Is 9 and 209.

Huh? 8 is the recognized channel number for OTA KFMB. 8 is also the channel number on cable, whether a STB is used or not. That's confusing?