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ST50 vs. ST60 - Page 2

post #31 of 62
Does any1 like the chrome bezel edging on the ST60 over the clear ST50 transparent edging?

seems to me that is a bit more distraction that could ruin picture quality advantage of the newer model.
post #32 of 62
Hi: Ok here is my dilemma I can get a 55ST50 for $1,100+ tax (I live in Canada) however it is a floor model (not sure it’s built date but will find out) or can get a 50ST60 new for about $1250+ tax or a 55S60 for $1,000+ tax also new, leaning towards the ST50 as I’ve read about the “lag” issue with the 60 series and as I play NHL 13 on my PS3 looks like that is not good for me?. How much of an improvement would any of these be over my 50PX-80U(2008)? Any advice would be great thanks.
post #33 of 62
I apologize if this has been addressed already, and Stereoguy99 above me has a similar issue, but any help would be appreciated.

I'm looking to get the 60" ST60 for its picture quality, but I'm concerned about the input lag as I plan on doing a little bit of gaming on it. I've also read in a few places that last year's ST50 has the same PQ as the ST60, and less input lag. Can anyone attest to this? Would it be a big mistake to get the ST50 over the ST60?
post #34 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by UhMilhouse View Post

I apologize if this has been addressed already, and Stereoguy99 above me has a similar issue, but any help would be appreciated.

I'm looking to get the 60" ST60 for its picture quality, but I'm concerned about the input lag as I plan on doing a little bit of gaming on it. I've also read in a few places that last year's ST50 has the same PQ as the ST60, and less input lag. Can anyone attest to this? Would it be a big mistake to get the ST50 over the ST60?

I am in the same boat & I've read their individual reviews religiously below from CNET between the ST50 vs ST60:

http://reviews.cnet.com/best-high-definition-tvs/

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p50st50/4505-6482_7-35117941.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p55st60/4505-6482_7-35567256.html

My take is that the ST60 has:
1) Small improvements in picture quality
2) More adjustment options under settings
3) An improved screen filter for bright conditions

ST50 has:
1) No wait for delivery from amazon
2) ~$200 less than ST60

So the main difference for me in that $200 is the incremental but small steps for 2013 with the ST60 from the ST50 & the immediate delivery from Amazon
post #35 of 62
Thanks tripleM. I've also gathered about the same as what you laid out.

I'm really tempted to just get the ST50 as, like you said, it's available now on Amazon and a fair amount cheaper than the ST60. On the other hand, reading all the raves about the ST60's picture quality makes me wonder if I should wait, but it seems like there's some hype mixed in there too. Having it come with the 3D glasses is another plus.

That input lag seems like it could be a deal breaker though. I don't want to regret buying it and then hating every time I play a game because of a split second of lag, and I know I would notice it. I've read a few people saying they don't even notice it, though, so maybe it's variable on different units? If that wasn't an issue, it would be no question for me.
post #36 of 62
This is clearly a concern for a lot of potential purchasers. I'd love to hear from some of the "heavyweights" on this issue?

*I do a considerable amount of online Xbox gaming; I don't have the twitchy reflexes of some younger players, so every split second matters...I'm already getting my butt handed to me. "Serious" input lag would be heartbreaking. So how much difference between the 2 model years?

Consideration for other gamers on the fence: I've read that smaller screens are better for gaming because of the amount of real estate your eyes have to travel to capture all of the fast-moving action. Larger screen means your eyes have to move a lot faster to see everything going on. Smaller screen means possibly quicker situational awareness. Still, playing offline on a 60" would make for great group entertainment, especially with games like "Madden."

I also watch a lot of movies. Sharpness and light management are important for me.

*I'm considering the 60" ST50 and the ST60. At $1300 - $1500 these Pannys are a great buy, but only if they don't contain deal-breakers: ST50 - Less lag but lower picture quality/ST60 - More lag but picture enhancement equivalent to the GT series of last year.

Giving some thought to being the ultimate indecisive person and getting one of each (one in the basement and one for main living area).

So what's the real deal? Can/will Panasonic engineer a fix for the ST60's processing hogs that contribute to lag? If so the ST60 is the hands down winner.

Is the technical difference between the two model years negligible after possible adjustments? If so, the ST60, at $200 bucks less, makes a smart choice for gamers.

Note: Using gaming consoles makes the whole "smart TV" thing redundant.

Tick Tock. Tick Tock.
post #37 of 62
Another option is the 65" S64 for $1398. I think the picture is as good or better than my ST50 and it has no game lag.
post #38 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanBlade86 View Post

From reports on here the ST60 has much worse input lag than the ST50 for gamers out there.

How much of an issue is that??

I use xbox360 and play driving games mainly, Forza Grid etc
post #39 of 62
I just looked at an ST60 beside an S60. One huge difference, the reflection on the S60 is brutal, the ST is non-issue.


Question, is the ST60 as good as the GT50??
post #40 of 62
CYrus BORG said:
"Note: Using gaming consoles makes the whole "smart TV" thing redundant."

Exactly. I prefer the older TVs that had absolutely no "Smart" crap. Just give me a sharp, clear, colorful picture that displays exactly what's coming from the source input, and I'm good to go. It's those extra features most likely contributing to the lag issue on the ST60, and we don't need them! Man, I hope Panasonic finds their way to a fix.
post #41 of 62
We're pretty sure that despite the growing attention to the lag issue, they won't issue a fix. They just don't care about it.

My main input lag impressions are in the input lag thread, but IMO mainly driving games should be fine. If you already game on a plasma, it'll just feel maybe a hair slower...more a sluggish feeling almost than anything super noticeable. It felt just a tiny bit worse than my S1 and eventually I determined it wasn't a deal breaker and I would buy the set, even though I ended up with a different one anyways. For the guy who said he plays NHL, that's one of the very few games I'd say maybe not this set. You need very good response time for that game above even other sports games really for it to feel right. Try before you buy if possible!

I think it's true what others have said already, the game mode on older Panasonics is fast, but the PQ is not great in game mode. This year is a compromise...you get to use the same picture mode for any gaming and in turn the lag goes up a couple frames. I will say, the picture was quite beautiful in game mode on the ST60!
post #42 of 62
Very useful insights on the PQ from last year's game mode vs. this year's. Leaning now toward the ST60 for enhanced picture, and resigning myself to doing online gaming with a different unit...perhaps a large monitor.

No doubt. Panasonic is reportedly ending the plasma line. It's probably not a scheduled R&D to make the "game mode" actually a "game mode" that shuts off the apps which drain the processing power. One would think it were a simple macro instruction that could be downloaded,

It'll be tuff, but we'll look for a dealer that has one with wi-fi active, and tote a game console there to try it out. $1500 bucks would be a lot to get pissed about down the road. STill would be great to hear from gamers using either year's models for online fun?
Edited by CYrus BORG - 5/25/13 at 8:34am
post #43 of 62
Well I purchased the 55ST50 w 5 year in home service warranty so far very impressed seems quite a bit better than my old 720P 2008 PX80U( good TV by the way,IMO). Now wondering what disc to get for calibration for it....Disney WOW, or Spears & Munsil (if Amzon.com will ship it up here in Canada). Thanks to all that offered their opinions was very helpful!!!
post #44 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereoguy99 View Post

Well I purchased the 55ST50 w 5 year in home service warranty so far very impressed seems quite a bit better than my old 720P 2008 PX80U( good TV by the way,IMO). Now wondering what disc to get for calibration for it....Disney WOW, or Spears & Munsil (if Amzon.com will ship it up here in Canada). Thanks to all that offered their opinions was very helpful!!!

Congrats....at least somebody was able to make a decision between these 2.
Please report back your experience with it.

Enjoy!
post #45 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereoguy99 View Post

Well I purchased the 55ST50 w 5 year in home service warranty so far very impressed seems quite a bit better than my old 720P 2008 PX80U( good TV by the way,IMO). Now wondering what disc to get for calibration for it....Disney WOW, or Spears & Munsil (if Amzon.com will ship it up here in Canada). Thanks to all that offered their opinions was very helpful!!!

I just got the WOW disc. Haven't had much time to play with it. I just ordered an ST60. I would go with the WOW disc. The spears and munsil looks like a waste of money. Not to mention with tvs like the ST50 there have been a ton of people who have used professional calibration equipment to calibrate them so you are better off finding a few of those people and just plugging in their numbers and trying like a few different peoples numbers and seeing whos looks the best to you. Save you a lot of time calibrating it yourself.
post #46 of 62
Unless I'm reading wrong... you think Spears & Munsil is a waste of money, but Disney WoW isn't? Care to elaborate? Personally I think Spears & Munsil is the better disc as it offers more advanced patterns for real calibrations (grayscale and color gamut), on top of the basic patterns for Brightness, Contrast, Color/Tint and Sharpness. Disney WoW is a consumer level disc that only offers basic patterns. For advanced calibration you need a meter, so if you don't have one, either of them will be fine for the basic controls. Even the free AVS HD 709 disc will suffice, but don't expect it to walk you through everything like WoW or Spears & Munsil... you'll have to read the patterns manual and learn yourself.

Anyway, to answer the OP question, the ST60 is better than the ST50 in every way, except input lag. The ST60, especially after calibration, has noticeably better picture quality. It's not dramatically different, but noticeable. If input lag bothers you or you can find a larger or heavily discounted model, the ST50 is still a fine choice. If you just want the better performing set, the ST60 is better. Coming from a 60ST50 owner.
Edited by rahzel - 5/28/13 at 1:26am
post #47 of 62
That's solid advice. Been tracking the 60ST50 at just below 1300 bucks this weekend. Looking for more of a blowout inventory clearance sale though, but ready to pounce. Would love the improved picture of the ST60 but lag would kill it.

May watch prices on the 60ST60 later in the year as a second unit if prices go down.
post #48 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by CYrus BORG View Post

That's solid advice. Been tracking the 60ST50 at just below 1300 bucks this weekend. Looking for more of a blowout inventory clearance sale though, but ready to pounce. Would love the improved picture of the ST60 but lag would kill it.

May watch prices on the 60ST60 later in the year as a second unit if prices go down.

That was good advice & I would like to add that if people care about 3D, apparently, the 3D isn't up to snuff for aficionado's on the ST60.
post #49 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Unless I'm reading wrong... you think Spears & Munsil is a waste of money, but Disney WoW isn't? Care to elaborate? Personally I think Spears & Munsil is the better disc as it offers more advanced patterns for real calibrations (grayscale and color gamut), on top of the basic patterns for Brightness, Contrast, Color/Tint and Sharpness. Disney WoW is a consumer level disc that only offers basic patterns. For advanced calibration you need a meter, so if you don't have one, either of them will be fine for the basic controls. Even the free AVS HD 709 disc will suffice, but don't expect it to walk you through everything like WoW or Spears & Munsil... you'll have to read the patterns manual and learn yourself.

Anyway, to answer the OP question, the ST60 is better than the ST50 in every way, except input lag. The ST60, especially after calibration, has noticeably better picture quality. It's not dramatically different, but noticeable. If input lag bothers you or you can find a larger or heavily discounted model, the ST50 is still a fine choice. If you just want the better performing set, the ST60 is better. Coming from a 60ST50 owner.

Sorry I guess I phrased that wrong. The spears and munsil seems to me a waste of money because the wow disc is like 20 bucks while spears and munsil looks like its over 100. The reason I view that as a waste of money is because it seems as though to get great calibration you need spendy calibration equipment. And there are people who have that stuff posting on here providing their findings. So it seems wasteful to me to pay that much for spears and munsil when you likely won't be able to calibrate your tv better than the ppl with actual equipment. I am sure however the spears and munsil is a quality calibration disc. I got the wow disc so I could calibrate other peoples TVs easily for them not really for myself.
post #50 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM View Post

That was good advice & I would like to add that if people care about 3D, apparently, the 3D isn't up to snuff for aficionado's on the ST60.

I have heard that as well. Although I have heard the 3D is still good. It seems to me as though no TVs right now really offer optimal 3D....I'm sure the VT and zt series offer pretty awesome 3D but unless one wants to blow an extra grand or two then there really is no way to get great 3D
post #51 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by sealteamz6 View Post

Sorry I guess I phrased that wrong. The spears and munsil seems to me a waste of money because the wow disc is like 20 bucks while spears and munsil looks like its over 100. The reason I view that as a waste of money is because it seems as though to get great calibration you need spendy calibration equipment. And there are people who have that stuff posting on here providing their findings. So it seems wasteful to me to pay that much for spears and munsil when you likely won't be able to calibrate your tv better than the ppl with actual equipment. I am sure however the spears and munsil is a quality calibration disc. I got the wow disc so I could calibrate other peoples TVs easily for them not really for myself.
Nope... Spears & Munsil is $30 at amazon.
post #52 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Nope... Spears & Munsil is $30 at amazon.

Oh well my mistake then. When I was getting the wow disc the spears and munsil wasn't available by Amazon and all the other sources listed 100 or more
post #53 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by sealteamz6 View Post

Oh well my mistake then. When I was getting the wow disc the spears and munsil wasn't available by Amazon and all the other sources listed 100 or more
Ya I saw the first edition was listed for $100 at amazon... ridiculous. The 2nd edition was just released recently and is $30. smile.gif
post #54 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereoguy99 View Post

Hi: Ok here is my dilemma I can get a 55ST50 for $1,100+ tax (I live in Canada) however it is a floor model (not sure it’s built date but will find out) or can get a 50ST60 new for about $1250+ tax or a 55S60 for $1,000+ tax also new, leaning towards the ST50 as I’ve read about the “lag” issue with the 60 series and as I play NHL 13 on my PS3 looks like that is not good for me?. How much of an improvement would any of these be over my 50PX-80U(2008)? Any advice would be great thanks.

Gamers are concerned about the lag (so am I, but one member sent me a video of his ST, and looks like non0issue to me)

But why has no one asked about getting a GT50 or a ST60??

The GT had a dual core processor, so I guess/assume, that would improve game lag??

So I'll ask the question, GT50 or ST60?
post #55 of 62
Hi: So far I love the 55ST50!! Still playing around with the pic settings have another 20 days to make my mind either keep it or get a 50ST60 not sure the ST60 pic will be worth going to a smaller screen(55" to 50") and still concerned about the lag of the ST60 with (NHL 13. )
post #56 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereoguy99 View Post

Hi: So far I love the 55ST50!! Still playing around with the pic settings have another 20 days to make my mind either keep it or get a 50ST60 not sure the ST60 pic will be worth going to a smaller screen(55" to 50") and still concerned about the lag of the ST60 with (NHL 13. )

I say if you're happy with the ST50, keep the ST50. I have a 60ST60 and I went from a 42 inch LG LED to that and I was shocked at how quickly I got used to 60 inches. Don't downgrade on the size - You'll immediately notice a difference. Besides, while I absolutely love the ST60 and think it's the best bang for the buck out there, if you aren't comparing the two sets in person will you really notice a difference? Probably not. Might as well save yourself the hassle of doing a return, sacrificing 5 inches and just stick with something you're already happy with smile.gif I will say I have yet to notice any input lag on the ST60. I'm sure it's there but I haven't picked up on it yet.
post #57 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethean View Post

I say if you're happy with the ST50, keep the ST50. I have a 60ST60 and I went from a 42 inch LG LED to that and I was shocked at how quickly I got used to 60 inches. Don't downgrade on the size - You'll immediately notice a difference. Besides, while I absolutely love the ST60 and think it's the best bang for the buck out there, if you aren't comparing the two sets in person will you really notice a difference? Probably not. Might as well save yourself the hassle of doing a return, sacrificing 5 inches and just stick with something you're already happy with smile.gif I will say I have yet to notice any input lag on the ST60. I'm sure it's there but I haven't picked up on it yet.

+1 keep the ST50
post #58 of 62
I just thought I'd come in and say the ST50 is an awesome tv and I couldn't ask for anything more. People were saying the ST60 supposedly has a better picture but I'd rather have something with better input response. A bigger screen would have been nice since I only have a 50" but at the price I got it for I'm not going to have any regrets. You definitely have a score with the 55" ST50 and by the sounds of it you're liking what you're seeing so I say definitely keep it and keep enjoying it. I know I'll continue using it with my Blu-rays, PS3 and XBox 360 games as well as the PS4 in the near future.
post #59 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereoguy99 View Post

Hi: Ok here is my dilemma I can get a 55ST50 for $1,100+ tax (I live in Canada) however it is a floor model (not sure it’s built date but will find out) or can get a 50ST60 new for about $1250+ tax or a 55S60 for $1,000+ tax also new, leaning towards the ST50 as I’ve read about the “lag” issue with the 60 series and as I play NHL 13 on my PS3 looks like that is not good for me?. How much of an improvement would any of these be over my 50PX-80U(2008)? Any advice would be great thanks.

It's funny, I am in almost the exact same situation and I was doing a search of "ST50 vs. ST60," when I came across this thread.

I am in Canada and have a choice between a brand new 50ST60 for $1180 + tax or a floor model 55ST50 for $1020 + tax. I am leaning towards the 55ST50 and then getting 5 year extended warranty for $280 + tax.

Any updates on your experience with the ST50?
post #60 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM View Post

I am in the same boat & I've read their individual reviews religiously below from CNET between the ST50 vs ST60:

http://reviews.cnet.com/best-high-definition-tvs/

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p50st50/4505-6482_7-35117941.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p55st60/4505-6482_7-35567256.html

My take is that the ST60 has:
1) Small improvements in picture quality
2) More adjustment options under settings
3) An improved screen filter for bright conditions

ST50 has:
1) No wait for delivery from amazon
2) ~$200 less than ST60

So the main difference for me in that $200 is the incremental but small steps for 2013 with the ST60 from the ST50 & the immediate delivery from Amazon

Ditto. Except now, they are the same price. I game quite a bit, but not competitively. I'm not into super twitchy games like fighting or cod. However, I do enjoy old school stuff. Super Mario World, etc.

I'm torn. 60ST50 nowish, or 60ST60 in 1-2 months. or nowish from Best Buy with up front ship to store.
Edited by MarieAntoinette - 8/1/13 at 6:57pm
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