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EQ options below 20hz???

post #1 of 31
2/7/13 at 7:40pm
Thread Starter 
Does anyone know of any EQ options that can apply a house curve below 20hz? Just curious to see what is out there.
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post #2 of 31
2/7/13 at 7:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Does anyone know of any EQ options that can apply a house curve below 20hz? Just curious to see what is out there.

Why start the house curve that low?
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post #3 of 31
2/7/13 at 8:18pm
Thread Starter 
I have a house curve applied down to 20hz through my receivers EQ, however it does seem to apply it down 14-15hz after measuring the in room response. I was looking for something that would be able to be integrated into the current EQ below 20hz ,b/c I don't really think external EQ systems could do a better job than my current EQ system. Hence the need for the below 20hz.
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post #4 of 31
2/7/13 at 8:37pm
You already have a HPF ? Could put one in your signal chain at 10Hz or so before the amp as with most IB's. Pretty sure it was mentioned in your build thread I want to say by LT.
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post #5 of 31
2/7/13 at 9:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

You already have a HPF ? Could put one in your signal chain at 10Hz or so before the amp as with most IB's. Pretty sure it was mentioned in your build thread I want to say by LT.
No,no,no,no,no,no and no. No HPF and no intention of putting one in, EVER!!!
I want have a house curve applied down to about 2-3hz. As with the lower the hz go the more SPL is needed to be heard. At present I don't want to have to crank out 130db @10hz just so I can get 110@ 2hz. That is reason why I want something that will be able to apply a house curve below 20hz. smile.gif
Edited by JapanDave - 2/7/13 at 11:23pm
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post #6 of 31
2/7/13 at 11:09pm
MiniDSP is an option
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post #7 of 31
2/7/13 at 11:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

MiniDSP is an option
Does it go below 20hz? And how connecting 7-8 drivers to it. How is it with high powered amps?

Looks like I am going to have to do some research.
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post #8 of 31
2/8/13 at 12:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Does it go below 20hz? And how connecting 7-8 drivers to it. How is it with high powered amps?

It really isn't stable below 20Hz even though it says it can go to 10Hz in the GUI. Due to the processing chip it is actually stable to 25Hz. You can always try and see how it holds up. Biquads should be able to calculate to this.
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post #9 of 31
2/8/13 at 2:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

No,no,no,no,no,no and no. No HPF and no intention of putting one in, EVER!!!
I want have a house curve applied down to about 2-3hz. As with the lower the hz go the more SPL is needed to be heard. At present I don't want to have to crank out 130db @10hz just so I can get 110@ 2hz. That is reason why I want something that will be able to apply a house curve below 20hz. smile.gif

No offense taken cool.gif. How much wattage do you have on the 7 RE's?

even a deq2496 or dcx2496 can be manipulated to filter to about 15Hz
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post #10 of 31
2/8/13 at 3:38am
JapanDave,

I use a MiniDSP and have my 10hz signal boosted to +12DB and it makes a HUGE difference down low! wink.gif
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post #11 of 31
2/8/13 at 5:44am
i know you have measured your response down low, but did you get a little room gain ? When i was using a Mini, i got some real good response down low.....
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post #12 of 31
2/8/13 at 3:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

No offense taken cool.gif. How much wattage do you have on the 7 RE's?

even a deq2496 or dcx2496 can be manipulated to filter to about 15Hz
Thanks.　I use 2 x the real Lab Gruppen FP 10000Q. I run each sub on its own channel @ 2500w's. So 17,500w to subs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

JapanDave,

I use a MiniDSP and have my 10hz signal boosted to +12DB and it makes a HUGE difference down low! wink.gif

So You can boost down that low on the MiniDSP? Can you boost lower? And what are the connection options, as I have one sub on its own channel, so I will need 7 connection inputs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

i know you have measured your response down low, but did you get a little room gain ? When i was using a Mini, i got some real good response down low.....
The room is entirely solid concrete and I get much room gain.

I have been talking to the people at DSPeaker-Anti-Mode and they say that their top model is able to EQ down to 3hz. Anyone have any experience with DSPeaker-Anti-Mode Dual core?
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post #13 of 31
2/8/13 at 6:30pm
Depends which minidsp you use. The 96khz ones suck at < 25hz. The 24khz are better. You put them before the amps, so doesn't matter how many drivers you're running. I've got my 96khz minidsp setup well enough from trial and error down low, but I have the 48khz plugin for it from the 8x8 I think (was using 2x8 before) which should help some.

The 2x8 and 8x8 support higher voltage line levels. I think it's like 8v on balanced connections. That's the reason I went for those when a 2x4 unit would have worked fine.
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post #14 of 31
2/8/13 at 7:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Depends which minidsp you use. The 96khz ones suck at < 25hz. The 24khz are better. You put them before the amps, so doesn't matter how many drivers you're running. I've got my 96khz minidsp setup well enough from trial and error down low, but I have the 48khz plugin for it from the 8x8 I think (was using 2x8 before) which should help some.

The 2x8 and 8x8 support higher voltage line levels. I think it's like 8v on balanced connections. That's the reason I went for those when a 2x4 unit would have worked fine.
I have each sub on a separate channel, they are not daisy chained, so each channel gets a signal. But it looks like the miniDSP 10x10 Hd has 8 x 8 balanced inputs/outputs. How is this unit?
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post #15 of 31
2/8/13 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

I have each sub on a separate channel, they are not daisy chained, so each channel gets a signal. But it looks like the miniDSP 10x10 Hd has 8 x 8 balanced inputs/outputs. How is this unit?
I have the 8x8 dave, and it works great.
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post #16 of 31
2/8/13 at 7:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

I have the 8x8 dave, and it works great.
How do you have it hooked up?

Do you have any response graphs?
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post #17 of 31
2/8/13 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Thanks.　I use 2 x the real Lab Gruppen FP 10000Q. I run each sub on its own channel @ 2500w's. So 17,500w to subs.

That is definitely plenty. I'll bet the power company is like YES! whenever your theater is on biggrin.gif

Maybe a winISD guru could model better than I can. I keep trying with 7 RE 18s in an IB (99999cuft) and run out of cone excursion(4.4 inches@17.5kw) with anything over 5kw at 17Hz and below. That is until I put in a 11Hz HPF then I can model up to 9kw staying within 2.1 inches.
I know someone may say real world vs fancy pants computer tool but anyone's input appreciated. My buddy is enthusiastic about the REs in an IB for his house. Before he puts 440 lbs of driver in his attic ya know biggrin.gif avs creates bassheads overnight lol
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post #18 of 31
2/8/13 at 9:10pm
I was all set to get the MiniDSP, but the low voltage and the turn off thump has me hesitating. I don't see much else out there that will suit my needs. I need something that will be able to EQ down to 10hz. Currently using a couple Behringer MIC2200's. The DSPeaker-Anti-Mode Dual core looks pretty good, but more than I am interested in spending.
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post #19 of 31
2/8/13 at 10:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

That is definitely plenty. I'll bet the power company is like YES! whenever your theater is on biggrin.gif

Maybe a winISD guru could model better than I can. I keep trying with 7 RE 18s in an IB (99999cuft) and run out of cone excursion(4.4 inches@17.5kw) with anything over 5kw at 17Hz and below. That is until I put in a 11Hz HPF then I can model up to 9kw staying within 2.1 inches.
I know someone may say real world vs fancy pants computer tool but anyone's input appreciated. My buddy is enthusiastic about the REs in an IB for his house. Before he puts 440 lbs of driver in his attic ya know biggrin.gif avs creates bassheads overnight lol
Is your friend going with 4 drivers? (440lbs) My setup is 600lbs worth IB of drivers, the front wall has 1000lbs of speakers (3 LCR and 4 x RE XXX) and drivers in it. The best way to model is with a large sealed, IB does not seem to go well.(Well at least for me)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I was all set to get the MiniDSP, but the low voltage and the turn off thump has me hesitating. I don't see much else out there that will suit my needs. I need something that will be able to EQ down to 10hz. Currently using a couple Behringer MIC2200's. The DSPeaker-Anti-Mode Dual core looks pretty good, but more than I am interested in spending.
Hey Mike,

That what I read somewhere as well. Is there something better than the Anti mode dual core? And if I went with the dual core I would have to get a least 2 units. Cost is not a factor for me in this department, but performance is.
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post #20 of 31
2/9/13 at 2:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I was all set to get the MiniDSP, but the low voltage and the turn off thump has me hesitating. I don't see much else out there that will suit my needs. I need something that will be able to EQ down to 10hz. Currently using a couple Behringer MIC2200's. The DSPeaker-Anti-Mode Dual core looks pretty good, but more than I am interested in spending.

the x8 units are higher voltage. Don't turn it off and there's no thump. simple workarounds.
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post #21 of 31
2/9/13 at 6:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

JapanDave,

I use a MiniDSP and have my 10hz signal boosted to +12DB and it makes a HUGE difference down low! wink.gif

Can you apply the boost @10hz ,but not have anything EQ'ed above that? Why I ask is b/c the EQ I am using now does a great job above 20hz, but it is esentially flat to 9-10hz, where as I want to boost frequencies as low as 5hz if I can.
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post #22 of 31
2/9/13 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Can you apply the boost @10hz ,but not have anything EQ'ed above that? Why I ask is b/c the EQ I am using now does a great job above 20hz, but it is esentially flat to 9-10hz, where as I want to boost frequencies as low as 5hz if I can.

Yes you can!
You can boost 10HZ up to +16DB, the higher you increase the Q value the less other frequencies are affected.

In my case I leave the Q value at minimum (.5) so it also affects the closet values (after and before 10HZ) too.
Ex: with my setting the 10HZ at +12DB and keeping the Q value at .5 my 12 HZ is also +11DB, my 14 is +10DB, my 16HZ is +9DB and so on.
If I change the Value of Q to say 30 then my 10HZ is at +12DB, my 11HZ is at 0DB. Teh other frequencies do not change the slightest bit.

I'm far from very knowledgeable about this stuff but it is what I'm experiencing. redface.gif
I can tell you that it makes a HUGE difference boosting the 10HZ on my 4x 21's. wink.gif
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post #23 of 31
2/9/13 at 9:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Yes you can!
You can boost 10HZ up to +16DB, the higher you increase the Q value the less other frequencies are affected.

In my case I leave the Q value at minimum (.5) so it also affects the closet values (after and before 10HZ) too.
Ex: with my setting the 10HZ at +12DB and keeping the Q value at .5 my 12 HZ is also +11DB, my 14 is +10DB, my 16HZ is +9DB and so on.
If I change the Value of Q to say 30 then my 10HZ is at +12DB, my 11HZ is at 0DB. Teh other frequencies do not change the slightest bit.

I'm far from very knowledgeable about this stuff but it is what I'm experiencing. redface.gif
I can tell you that it makes a HUGE difference boosting the 10HZ on my 4x 21's. wink.gif

What happens below that? Once I have my back IB installed I should be getting about 110db @ 2.5hz. The problem is with the way my EQ is now that to get those levels @2.5hz I would need to have over130db @10hz ,which the system is capable of doing, except I could not listen to those levels obviously. Does it just roll of gently or is it a pretty steep drop off?

And how do you connect to the balanced?


Edited by JapanDave - 2/9/13 at 10:35pm
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post #24 of 31
2/10/13 at 5:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Yes you can!
You can boost 10HZ up to +16DB, the higher you increase the Q value the less other frequencies are affected.

In my case I leave the Q value at minimum (.5) so it also affects the closet values (after and before 10HZ) too.
Ex: with my setting the 10HZ at +12DB and keeping the Q value at .5 my 12 HZ is also +11DB, my 14 is +10DB, my 16HZ is +9DB and so on.
If I change the Value of Q to say 30 then my 10HZ is at +12DB, my 11HZ is at 0DB. Teh other frequencies do not change the slightest bit.

I'm far from very knowledgeable about this stuff but it is what I'm experiencing. redface.gif
I can tell you that it makes a HUGE difference boosting the 10HZ on my 4x 21's. wink.gif

Which EQ devise are you referring too? The miniDsp? Also, what is the Q value?
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post #25 of 31
2/10/13 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

What happens below that? Once I have my back IB installed I should be getting about 110db @ 2.5hz. The problem is with the way my EQ is now that to get those levels @2.5hz I would need to have over130db @10hz ,which the system is capable of doing, except I could not listen to those levels obviously. Does it just roll of gently or is it a pretty steep drop off?

And how do you connect to the balanced?


Dave, to hook up the balanced connection, you cut off one end of an xlr cable and insert the wires in the apropriate output connectors on the mini dsp. Its really easy.
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post #26 of 31
2/10/13 at 5:37pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Keager.
Have got yours setup and EQ'ed? Do you have any REW measurements? You should be getting similar output as me I imagine.
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post #27 of 31
2/11/13 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I was all set to get the MiniDSP, but the low voltage and the turn off thump has me hesitating. I don't see much else out there that will suit my needs. I need something that will be able to EQ down to 10hz. Currently using a couple Behringer MIC2200's. The DSPeaker-Anti-Mode Dual core looks pretty good, but more than I am interested in spending.

Depending on your power amp, the output voltage isn't an issue; my ipr 3000 only needs .775 V for full output.

The thump can be addressed with a power strip that has time delay on turnon and turnoff.
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post #28 of 31
2/11/13 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Depending on your power amp, the output voltage isn't an issue; my ipr 3000 only needs .775 V for full output.

The thump can be addressed with a power strip that has time delay on turnon and turnoff.

The other issue that I forgot to mention, what about the clipping. Read where a few people were clipping their MiniDSP. I need to get REW back up and running. I am on a different laptop, so I had to download REW again. With the new changes to REW, I can get rid on my mic preamp, so I have a new calibrated USB mic ordered. REW HDMI works well for me since my equipment is located in a room below my theater and I have a spare HDMI cable run to my HT room. I tried out the REW signal generator and it worked fine. I will probably switch over from a pair of MIC2200's to MiniDSP, just need to get set back up for measuring again. Then I will probably use something like a Samson S-Direct Plus to go to balanced and use the 2x8 balanced MiniDSP. Always takes a little more thought in how to put this together, when your equipment is remote located.

Added
Just remembered the MIC2200 converts to balanced, so could just pass the signal through it to get balanced. Not sure what the roll off is with a MIC2200, but I know I was flat to 10hz when I measured my old system, so it should be pretty good.
Edited by AV Science Sales 5 - 2/11/13 at 12:54pm
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post #29 of 31
2/11/13 at 3:56pm
Turn down the input level MDSP input level so that it doesn't clip, i.e. it translates to the sensitivity issue.
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post #30 of 31
2/11/13 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Just remembered the MIC2200 converts to balanced, so could just pass the signal through it to get balanced. Not sure what the roll off is with a MIC2200, but I know I was flat to 10hz when I measured my old system, so it should be pretty good.

I've had a MIC2200 for a a couple years. I was concerned about specifically how the -3dB point could be affecting my deep bass-infra playback. What I surmised as deep as I could resolve, was it wasn't a significant limiting factor in measured extension.
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