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S.E.O.S.R. MEGA BUILD - Page 8

post #211 of 580
I think the XT is a better match for the TD15's then the XR would be, but WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!! biggrin.gif

You already have the SEOS-24's on order, yes they are a little large for surround use but I thought the whole point was that you wanted all matching waveguide/CD's.
post #212 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

I think the XT is a better match for the TD15's then the XR would be, but WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!! biggrin.gif

You already have the SEOS-24's on order, yes they are a little large for surround use but I thought the whole point was that you wanted all matching waveguide/CD's.

You caught me before I edited my post biggrin.gif

I guess a few days of the thread being dormant just made me think more...not a good thing. I am just going to stick to the SEOS24 all around anyway...Id o have nine of them coming after all biggrin.gif

I'm gonna send you a pm about enclosures....I'm bored and need something to work on!!
post #213 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

You caught me before I edited my post biggrin.gif

I guess a few days of the thread being dormant just made me think more...not a good thing. I am just going to stick to the SEOS24 all around anyway...Id o have nine of them coming after all biggrin.gif

I'm gonna send you a pm about enclosures....I'm bored and need something to work on!!

Get a damn job Chop!

j/k...lol
post #214 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Get a damn job Chop!

j/k...lol

biggrin.gif That one got me. Everyone at my house just kind of chills once the day is over and we're home in the winter...my wife, my daughter. In the summer it's so much better cause we can always go hiking, biking, something....I just can't sit still, and I get home with energy, so I need the projects. I could stand to spend less time on AVS at the office biggrin.gif
post #215 of 580
Thread Starter 
Not much to share guys...just waiting on the gear to show up now so we can get started. DE and I have figured out an agreement that works well for both of us and will include his design, as well as tuning of the room after we are done. I will start the theater build thread soon.

Matt and I have been continuing to go back and forth still on the thought of going WWTWW and shading the very top and very bottom or horizontal with two above and two below the waveguide. It feels like ultimately, a vertical arrangement will be safer and I'm sure will offer more than sufficient performance. I was able to get Matt a rough sketch of the room, and it looks like even with three rows, fifteen seats, we can still get coverage very good at all seats....-6db in the very worst spots.
post #216 of 580
I sent an email to the guys in Poland. They have a pair of the SEOS-24's that can be shipped by UPS, FedEx, or DHL. But I don't think they're going to take it to the local drop off and figure shipping prices. I was hoping they would do that.

I'm not going to have the time right now to figure out how to get one of those shippers to stop by the shop in Poland to pick up the package. So if anyone wants to do that, I can give them the info. If not, we can just wait for the pallet. I'm currently on a mission to get all current orders packaged and up to date. biggrin.gif
post #217 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I sent an email to the guys in Poland. They have a pair of the SEOS-24's that can be shipped by UPS, FedEx, or DHL. But I don't think they're going to take it to the local drop off and figure shipping prices. I was hoping they would do that.

I'm not going to have the time right now to figure out how to get one of those shippers to stop by the shop in Poland to pick up the package. So if anyone wants to do that, I can give them the info. If not, we can just wait for the pallet. I'm currently on a mission to get all current orders packaged and up to date. biggrin.gif

Don't sweat it Erich, the BMS stuff won't be here for a month anyway. By the end of March most of the gear should be here and we can get started with the build. The internal room construction should be going around then too, so it all should work out well. I know everyone is looking forward to that pallet though, lots of good stuff on there.
post #218 of 580
Thread Starter 
Ok, so here is a rough layout..still waiting to hear back from Dennis so that we can finalize measurements. This is a layout I did so that Matt and I could get some ideas on horizontal vs vertical and coverage in the room.
post #219 of 580
22x34 ............ I hate you smile.gif
post #220 of 580
So you have 3' on each side of the screen? Have you considered putting the L and R in the corners and angled in just enough to cross their axis just in front of the primo listening position? It should help mitigate near sidewall reflections even more than you will as it shows now.
post #221 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

22x34 ............ I hate you smile.gif

Yeah... I wish I had space like that.
post #222 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Yeah... I wish I had space like that.

Tell me about it. My wife had to fall in love with a home with a rock fireplace that extended from the basement to the main floor. frown.gif

Best I could manager was about 10' 8" x 23. I would have killed for even an extra foot of width.
post #223 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Tell me about it. My wife had to fall in love with a home with a rock fireplace that extended from the basement to the main floor. frown.gif

Best I could manager was about 10' 8" x 23. I would have killed for even an extra foot of width.

I'm in a sort of similar situation with a room of similar dimensions. What I would give for just two more feet of width!
post #224 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

So you have 3' on each side of the screen? Have you considered putting the L and R in the corners and angled in just enough to cross their axis just in front of the primo listening position? It should help mitigate near sidewall reflections even more than you will as it shows now.

Matt actually brought that up as well. Would there be any drawbacks to that?? I was concerned about localizing sound coming from way off to the side and them being so far away from the center channel. I guess that is the beauty of the waveguide design though right?? They will all "meet up" together and present the sound accordingly at all seats in theory. No doubt, there will be in room testing to really determine this stuff, but having a good handle on it all now will help us prepare.
post #225 of 580
IMO, off to the sides will be much better.
post #226 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

IMO, off to the sides will be much better.

Either that or I have to get a bigger screen biggrin.gif
post #227 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Either that or I have to get a bigger screen biggrin.gif

You can never have too big a screen. smile.gif
post #228 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Yeah... I wish I had space like that.

Yeah, but think of all the money you are saving on subs. Nah, I tried. Would still love to have that size room. smile.gif
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post #229 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

You can never have too big a screen. smile.gif

Are you volunteering to be the first contributor to the Jake's projector fund?biggrin.gif
post #230 of 580
NICE!! Your screen will be 16 friggin feet wide, outstanding. Mine is 12' 2" inches wide and seems crazy big, 16 will just be... wow. What will that make your diagonal size?

I'm 13'6" feet back from my screen, I see your front row will be 10 feet away. I assume you have done your homework and that distance will work fine with that size screen - man talk about full immersion into the movie, those front row viewers will probably have to move their head, not just eyeballs, to see anything but screen.
post #231 of 580
Jake - that is a incredible room layout. If I were building from scratch and had the resources in place I wouldn't change a thing. You're going to love it.

And dang, you guys are aggressive with your screen sizes. I'm planning out my false wall now, maybe I should step it up. I thought I was getting crazy going to 130" in 16:9. I'll be about 15' back in the primary seating position. eek.gif
post #232 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Jake - that is a incredible room layout. If I were building from scratch and had the resources in place I wouldn't change a thing. You're going to love it.

And dang, you guys are aggressive with your screen sizes. I'm planning out my false wall now, maybe I should step it up. I thought I was getting crazy going to 130" in 16:9. I'll be about 15' back in the primary seating position. eek.gif

My 2:35:1 is 158 inches but my 16:9 is only 124 inches and I'm 13' 6" back from the screen.

Everyone is different with how close/big they like the screen but for me that's just about perfect. What's interesting is that when I'm watching 16:9 content I feel like I wouldn't want to be any closer, but when I switch to a 2:35:1 so the screen is bigger and I still don't feel like I'm too close. Maybe it's easier to be close with wider content instead of taller if that makes sense.

So, yeah for me 130 inches for 16:9 at 15 feet back would be very similar to what I have. Now, when you switch to a 2:35:1 movie that would get kind of small, but I think you have said that your screen wall is width limited more than height limited, right? So going 2:35:1 while maintaining a 130 inch 16:9 isn't an option?
post #233 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

My 2:35:1 is 158 inches but my 16:9 is only 124 inches and I'm 13' 6" back from the screen.

Everyone is different with how close/big they like the screen but for me that's just about perfect. What's interesting is that when I'm watching 16:9 content I feel like I wouldn't want to be any closer, but when I switch to a 2:35:1 so the screen is bigger and I still don't feel like I'm too close. Maybe it's easier to be close with wider content instead of taller if that makes sense.

So, yeah for me 130 inches for 16:9 at 15 feet back would be very similar to what I have. Now, when you switch to a 2:35:1 movie that would get kind of small, but I think you have said that your screen wall is width limited more than height limited, right? So going 2:35:1 while maintaining a 130 inch 16:9 isn't an option?

To be honest I guess I never even really considered going 2.35 since we watch so much TV down there. Hmm...more things to consider. smile.gif

Sorry for the sidetrack Jake. tongue.gif

BTW what are your plans for room treatments?
post #234 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Matt actually brought that up as well. Would there be any drawbacks to that?? I was concerned about localizing sound coming from way off to the side and them being so far away from the center channel. I guess that is the beauty of the waveguide design though right?? They will all "meet up" together and present the sound accordingly at all seats in theory. No doubt, there will be in room testing to really determine this stuff, but having a good handle on it all now will help us prepare.

Well, I would pick DE's brain about that approach to be honest. I personally like it. Psychoacoustics are extremely complex. My experience (I don't have scientific support for this) is that having all the speakers behind the screen is not important as much as having them on the same horizontal plane is important. You might notice some more width, but I don't actually feel that it is wider with my mains in the corners vs behind the screen.

There might be some advantage to having the speaker behind the screen but IMO the advantages of corner placement trump that. Parham has some good writeups on the advantage of locating in a corner. I think that the best way to deal with early reflections is first by reducing their prevalance and second with absorption. The closer you are to a corner with a controlled horn the less early reflections you get. The horn effectively becomes much widerband.

IMO, the worst reflections are the midband ~500-3000hz near wall when speakers are 3-6ft from the sidewall and pointing straight out. The horn won't help much with that. Lots of midbass response issues are due to this typical placement as well. I think that with the typical messy directivity speakers people use it is hard to find good locations short of pulling your speakers 8-10' away from walls. Instead they just put them where it is convenient.

Here is an interesting post by Parham about speaker placement: http://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=16684

Edit: When I say "I personally like it" I'm saying I like both the measurable effect and the subjective result. The measurable effect is basically a cleaner response. Early reflections create response issues.
post #235 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

NICE!! Your screen will be 16 friggin feet wide, outstanding. Mine is 12' 2" inches wide and seems crazy big, 16 will just be... wow. What will that make your diagonal size?

I'm 13'6" feet back from my screen, I see your front row will be 10 feet away. I assume you have done your homework and that distance will work fine with that size screen - man talk about full immersion into the movie, those front row viewers will probably have to move their head, not just eyeballs, to see anything but screen.

Ahhhh, it took me until 4pm today to get my AVS fix!! Damn meetings!!!

The diagonal on a 200" wide(16.6ft) 2:35 is 217". The eyes in the first row, as it sits, will be like 13' off the screen, so just less than 1x width...I may still inch the first row back a bit, but am considering all options. The second row is where my seat will be biggrin.gif I kind of like the idea of the first row being where it is for the kids to look up and "ooohh, ahhhh" type effect, but the 2nd and 3rd rows will be the real winners for sight and sound I think. I may push the front row back two more feet if I can without moving the 2nd and 3rd back much, if at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Jake - that is a incredible room layout. If I were building from scratch and had the resources in place I wouldn't change a thing. You're going to love it.

And dang, you guys are aggressive with your screen sizes. I'm planning out my false wall now, maybe I should step it up. I thought I was getting crazy going to 130" in 16:9. I'll be about 15' back in the primary seating position. eek.gif

I can't feakin wait man!! I am so consumed by it right now just waiting for everything to go. It's gonna be even tougher when the 18 TD15M woofs show up in a week or two, and the BMS/SEOS24s after that.

I just come from the school of thought that you should go as big as is managable as long as the seats can be moved back a bit if ned be. To me, it's all about the room width...I didn't want to have a screen wall that was as much wall as it was screen. If the 130" fits nicely and you like the size, go for it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

Well, I would pick DE's brain about that approach to be honest. I personally like it. Psychoacoustics are extremely complex. My experience (I don't have scientific support for this) is that having all the speakers behind the screen is not important as much as having them on the same horizontal plane is important. You might notice some more width, but I don't actually feel that it is wider with my mains in the corners vs behind the screen.

There might be some advantage to having the speaker behind the screen but IMO the advantages of corner placement trump that. Parham has some good writeups on the advantage of locating in a corner. I think that the best way to deal with early reflections is first by reducing their prevalance and second with absorption. The closer you are to a corner with a controlled horn the less early reflections you get. The horn effectively becomes much widerband.

IMO, the worst reflections are the midband ~500-3000hz near wall when speakers are 3-6ft from the sidewall and pointing straight out. The horn won't help much with that. Lots of midbass response issues are due to this typical placement as well. I think that with the typical messy directivity speakers people use it is hard to find good locations short of pulling your speakers 8-10' away from walls. Instead they just put them where it is convenient.

Here is an interesting post by Parham about speaker placement: http://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=16684

Edit: When I say "I personally like it" I'm saying I like both the measurable effect and the subjective result. The measurable effect is basically a cleaner response. Early reflections create response issues.

I am going to fully unitlize DE for sure! I am just waiting on him to get the final contract back to m , as we made some changes to the scope of service. The nice part is that we will have a fully AT screen wall, so we can certainly experiment a bit..( as long as my wallet can handle Dennis being there :)I am going to check out the link you posted as well, thank you My mamain concern will be for even coverage, or as even as possible.

On a side note, I paid Nathan Funk for one of his DSP amps today to try out on a Dayton 18 in the living roomand see how it compares to running them with the cv5k or ep4k
post #236 of 580
Thread Starter 
I was thinking about one other thing with regard to the corner placement....would the screen framing, etc have an effect because the sound can tracel through all the AT material, but not through the framing. I am a bit ingnorant here, and it may be so small that it doesn't matter, but I'm not sure. I assume it won't matter based on this design...
post #237 of 580
With my current setup, I had a screen brace traveling directly in front of one of my drivers and never noticed the difference. YMMV however.
post #238 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

With my current setup, I had a screen brace traveling directly in front of one of my drivers and never noticed the difference. YMMV however.

Thanks Travis...I have to ask a question that may make you laugh though....what is YMMV??
post #239 of 580
Your mileage may vary.
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post #240 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Your mileage may vary.

I thought it was Your Mastercard May be Voided. biggrin.gif
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