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Top Gun 3D

post #1 of 59
2/9/13 at 7:55am
Thread Starter 
AVS'ers, get ready for a battle.

Top Gun 3D arrived the other day and late last night I decided to skim it because I was too curious to wait.

The good news? The 3D master is new. The bad news? The color timing changes are AWFUL. The level of orange and teal is oppressive. The effect is immediate and unmistakable. All of the increased detail and sharpness can only account for much when actors are this orange.

The 3D seems okay during flight shots. Lots of plane wings sticking out at the screen and such, so that seems like a winner.

On the other hand, the 2D version is notably DNR'ed with some edge enhancement. This has clearly been taken from a different master, so don't expect anything up to date in those regards.

I'll have a full review early next week, but I was quite shocked with that I saw and wanted to sound the early warning alarms.
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post #2 of 59
2/9/13 at 8:43am
Really? Teal and orange? Sweet Jesus.

PASS.
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post #3 of 59
2/9/13 at 8:48am
I remember when 80's transfers were pale and yellow.
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post #4 of 59
2/9/13 at 9:14am
The 3D trailer certainly looked a bit suspect...
Not really surprising, given Tony Scott's infatuation with garish digital color, but unfortunate...

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post #5 of 59
2/9/13 at 9:54am
Compare the above trailer with this one from a year ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCrUqt9Uf3E
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post #6 of 59
2/9/13 at 11:02am
That's just depressing. I was definitely thinking of going to check this out this weekend at the theater, but I will pass after seeing the orange and teal trailer. Yuck!
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post #7 of 59
2/9/13 at 4:53pm
But is the teal n' orange worse than the insane amount of DNR on the original release?

I mean, come on:
http://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/7477_8_1080p.jpg
http://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/7477_26_1080p.jpg
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post #8 of 59
2/9/13 at 5:18pm
I can live with teal & orange, especially when it fits the movie (sometimes it really does).

But why, WHY the 2D disc is repackaged old one? Are they out of their mind?
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post #9 of 59
2/9/13 at 5:20pm
I just saw this in theaters for a special showing in 3D. The 3D was barely there but man was this movie orange!
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post #10 of 59
2/9/13 at 5:23pm
That orange??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I just saw this in theaters for a special showing in 3D. The 3D was barely there but man was this movie orange!
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post #11 of 59
2/9/13 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

Compare the above trailer with this one from a year ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCrUqt9Uf3E
Sigh... you really have to wonder about the thought process that goes into these decisions.
"look at all these lovely blue skies... wouldn't it be totally rad if we made them aqua green?"
i don't even... confused.gif
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post #12 of 59
2/9/13 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

That orange??

Pretty bad and I'm not one that is super sensitive to color changes, even in movies that I've seen a million times. Top Gun is one of those movies. Grew up watching it damn near everyday as a kid. My buddy Dan (you remember him) and I went and saw it just cuz we wanted to see it in theaters. I never said anything about it but man was the picture quality bad. The grain was super blotchy and chunky. I never saw any frozen grain which drives me nuts but it did look bad. People have said teal and I honestly didn't see that much teal but boy was it orange.

The funny thing is that is sort of Tony Scott's style. It always had a kinda orange hue to it but this is so much worse now. Skin tones looked like fake spray on tan.

The sound was pretty good though! smile.gif
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post #13 of 59
2/9/13 at 7:19pm
Thread Starter 
Review is live with screen comparisons. There are more than timing changes too. The images has been brightened which has washed out some of the color. On the other hand, it DID take care of some black crush, so it's not a total loss:

http://www.doblu.com/2013/02/09/top-gun-3d-bluray-review/

3D on top, 2D special edition below:



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post #14 of 59
2/9/13 at 7:23pm
That looks pretty goddamn bad IMO. The codec can't handle the grain at all, it's all compression noise, the color timing is awful, yuck... though you can definitely see the potential if they did this right. Hope they saved those 6K scans.
Thanks for posting the shots though, I was curious how this looks.
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post #15 of 59
2/9/13 at 7:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

That looks pretty goddamn bad IMO. The codec can't handle the grain at all, it's all compression noise, the color timing is awful, yuck... though you can definitely see the potential if they did this right. Hope they saved those 6K scans.
Thanks for posting the shots though, I was curious how this looks.

I have some .pngs if anyone wants them. although the super low compression on the .jpegs isn't that far off. The compression is not that bad in motion, and honestly, one of the few high points of the disc.
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post #16 of 59
2/9/13 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamereviewgod View Post

Review is live with screen comparisons. There are more than timing changes too. The images has been brightened which has washed out some of the color. On the other hand, it DID take care of some black crush, so it's not a total loss:

http://www.doblu.com/2013/02/09/top-gun-3d-bluray-review/

3D on top, 2D special edition below:




This is accurate to what I saw in theaters for the 3D showing. Orange, muddy and blown out.
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post #17 of 59
2/9/13 at 11:44pm
Curiously, those screencaps seem to suffer from the same problem as that Fellowship of the Ring fiasco, where the disc's white point is some constant off-white greenish color, giving it this greenish tint.
original caps: http://imageshack.us/a/img41/9208/tgoriginal.jpg
white point adjusted to full RGB white: http://imageshack.us/a/img694/7531/tgwhitepointadjusted.jpg
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post #18 of 59
2/10/13 at 4:50am
It's releases like these that make me wish I had a customised advanced CMS that could be programmed to automatically compensate for each problematic disc.

This could be another candidate for luma from the 3D and chroma from the 2D, if it wasn't for that comment about timestamps not lining up (which means there are frame differences between them).
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post #19 of 59
2/10/13 at 7:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

... if it wasn't for that comment about timestamps not lining up (which means there are frame differences between them).

I think it dawned on me last night what it is: The Paramount logos are different. The new one is a bit longer at the beginning which of course throws the whole thing off.
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post #20 of 59
2/10/13 at 12:33pm
Typical '80s Tony Scott sunset filter vs teal and orange? This could get messy. Still, the grain doesn't look bad to me in those shots at all. There's a bit of compression trouble here and there in the grabs, but as Monsieur Gamerreviewgod said, it's not so much a problem when in motion.

I'm still really jazzed about seeing this.
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post #21 of 59
2/10/13 at 11:16pm
So have we any reference on how Top Gun should look? Previous videoreleases cant be a good reference since color was rarely accurate for any videorelease of any movie, unless they were black&white.
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post #22 of 59
2/11/13 at 12:23am
The more orange timing is accurate to what I saw in 3D IMAX at a theatre earlier today, and I doubt Paramount would let a release go out to IMAX theatres with "incorrect" timing.
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post #23 of 59
2/11/13 at 1:04am
Thats not so strange, because the 3D BD and IMAX 3D uses the same master.

But do we have any original 35mm reference?
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post #24 of 59
2/11/13 at 11:09am
I think Top Gun is suppose to be blue with pale and rose-y cheek flesh tones.
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post #25 of 59
2/11/13 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by homogenic View Post

I think Top Gun is suppose to be blue with pale and rose-y cheek flesh tones.

That's how it looks in every other iteration of home video, trailer, music videos, promotional materials, etc. This TO sh*t has to stop sometime, right?
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post #26 of 59
2/11/13 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

This TO sh*t has to stop sometime, right?

Yes, in a few years, Hollywood will transition to coloring every movie (new and old) lime green and fluorescent fuschia.
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post #27 of 59
2/11/13 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

The more orange timing is accurate to what I saw in 3D IMAX at a theatre earlier today, and I doubt Paramount would let a release go out to IMAX theatres with "incorrect" timing.
I think the question is not whether a technical error has occured, but whether Tony Scott's 2012 version of Top Gun's color scheme is the same as the 1986 one.
It's certainly possible that the old transfer does not represent the theatrical colors accurately, I wouldn't know. But to me the new color scheme, at least judging by the trailer and the screencaps provided, makes no aesthetic sense.
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post #28 of 59
2/11/13 at 10:30pm
It wouldn't be the first time when director revisited his movie and changed the color timing, right? Was IMAX/Blu-ray of Raiders of the Lost Ark so many years ago, that everybody forgot about it?
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post #29 of 59
2/12/13 at 4:28am
It is true than often times a director will alter timing to better depict what they intended and either wasn't technically feasible or was prohibitive for budgetary reasons at the time (and no, I'm not talking George Lucas "not feasible" but rather "we ran out of time/money before we could time it the way I really wanted."
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post #30 of 59
2/12/13 at 5:53am
Call me old fashioned, maybe even racist, but I just want to keep my whites white. wink.gif

I'm not a fan of timing changes, but tinting an entire film a different color is just sloppy - whether intentional or not.
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