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Looking for DIY sub advice, volume 2 - Page 2

post #31 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsho111 View Post

Thanks, that all makes sense, but what do you mean three ports would need to be 32"? If 4 ports need to be 43.5" (with 3" port) wouldn't using 3 ports require them to be bigger/longer?

I'll start whipping up a few front cab designs and see what looks best

No, because as you increase the port surface area the port length needs to increase to maintain the same tune, so reducing the surface area (one less port) will allow for a smaller length to reach the same tune.
post #32 of 71
Thread Starter 
Here are the designs I came up with. The box is 25in wide x 25 inches high by 30 inches deep. The two ideas I had were putting the 4 ports on the bottom or the four ports in the corners. I think the four ports in the corners looks much better I. I could even make a nice grill that just covers the speaker and leaves the ports open.

This doesn't have any braces yet, I still need to figure out what I'm gonna do with that.

The second pic shows how close the ports are. They are about 44.5 inches in length. Is it bad for them to be that close?

The second set is my alternative plan of putting them in an X pattern in the back. They port lengths had to be shortened a few inches to accommodate this though. These are 40 inches.

The last one is with the 4 ports along the bottom. I was pretty lazy on this one, didn't texture anything or bother creating the right angles for the pipes (they would obviously be connected)

My favorite is the ports in the 4 corners with the X pattern in the back, but the I'm losing like 16 inches of port length. Would it be bad to add another 90 degree turn (towards the front of the cab)? I assumed you would want to avoid right angles, but I could be totally wrong on that,

What do you think?





post #33 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

No, because as you increase the port surface area the port length needs to increase to maintain the same tune, so reducing the surface area (one less port) will allow for a smaller length to reach the same tune.

I just noticed this response and that makes sense.

In the older post you said you recommend dropping your port area that much. What issue would decreasing the port length create.
post #34 of 71
As long as there is at least 3" of clearance from the end of the port opening to any obstruction (with a 3" round port), the port should function properly. Any of those designs could work, hard to tell what the interior spacing is. The 4 on the bottom would definitely work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsho111 View Post

I just noticed this response and that makes sense.

In the older post you said you recommend dropping your port area that much. What issue would decreasing the port length create.

I said I do not recommend dropping the port area from 4 ports to 3. The possibility of audible chuffing and port compression could result from not enough port area. Decreasing length without changing the number of ports simply raises the tuning point.
post #35 of 71
Thread Starter 
The four on the bottom is easiest but I prefer the look of the one with them in the corner. The distance between them in the first example is about 2 inches (but the ports are a bit long so they could be shortened.

The one with the X pattern that little square area between them is 4x4, so I would assume in both examples they are too close?

Would there be an issue putting in two right per port instead of one?
post #36 of 71
As an alternative you could also use passive radiators instead of the ports. This would increase cost slightly but decrease cabinet size and eliminate all concerns of chuffing at high volumes.
post #37 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsho111 View Post

The four on the bottom is easiest but I prefer the look of the one with them in the corner. The distance between them in the first example is about 2 inches (but the ports are a bit long so they could be shortened.

The one with the X pattern that little square area between them is 4x4, so I would assume in both examples they are too close?

Would there be an issue putting in two right per port instead of one?

You should be okay with more then one 90 degree angle, it's done all the time with slot ports.

In regards to what tsloms suggested, a pair of these would allow you to tune the box to about 15hz, if you don't decrease the dimensions.

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=APR15
post #38 of 71
Thread Starter 
Would those replace the ports?

I know what a PR is but I'm not 100% sure how they work
post #39 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsho111 View Post

Would those replace the ports?

I know what a PR is but I'm not 100% sure how they work

Yes, they would replace the ports. How they work is you add weights to them to get the correct tuning frequency. In regards to your ports I think you should do the last pic as it provides enough clearance around the ports and you know you'll be safe. I believe a general rule of thumb is to make sure that there's at least the amount of clearance around the ports by whatever the diameter of the ports are. For instance if you're using 3" ports you'll want at least 3" of clearance around ALL sides of the ports. One thing that you might want to consider is not placing the ports so close to the back wall. Shorten up the length a little bit to provide clearance from the back wall and make them a little longer after the bend to make up for that shorter length to keep the correct port length. You'll probably also want to flare the inside and outside of the ports as well.

To be honest, I think a slot port is cheaper and easier to implement than round ports. For example I built a box for a 10" sub that has a slot port of 4"x10"x48". That would've been really difficult to achieve with round ports and would've cost significantly more to implement plus you use the walls of the box as one side of the slot port so you really only have to build three sides or maybe just one side depending on how wide it is of the slot port and glue it to the walls of the box to close it up.
Edited by Audiophile1178 - 2/21/13 at 10:11am
post #40 of 71
Thread Starter 
Audio, I agree with pretty much everything you mentioned, I just think the cylinder port looks much better. I was lazy on the inside flares too hah

I prefer the look of the ports in the corner too (instead of the 4 flat on the bottom). If I can put in two right angle bends to point the ports back towards the front of the cab I should be able to get the length and have proper clearance around all the ports.

The passive radiator idea is interesting too, even though it's more expensive I'm sure it would save time in the long run (and time = money biggrin.gif)
post #41 of 71
Thread Starter 
Here are some updated renderings. I tried to get some angles so you could see what's going on hah. I added 2 90 degree bends to get a 44 inch port and added bracing. The bracing looks a bit thin but it's 3/4" thick and the strips are 1 inch thick, I could go thicker with that though. Also, Jay, you suggested using a 3" port, was that 3" inner diameter or outer diameter?

The long port is 24 inches to the bend (so it's closer to 27 inches in length) and the shorter port is 11 inches to the bend (so closer to 14 inches). The short pipe is 4 inches (between the two bends).


post #42 of 71
3" inner diameter. That's a very nice rendering! I would try to add four dowels or strips of wood that connect the front to back, but other then that your bracing looks good.
post #43 of 71
Thread Starter 
That's what I thought on the port sizing.

I was looking at the dayton audio pt3 port stuff (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=268-320) but it turns out it's actually a 2.7 inch inside diameter and it's not even standard pvc size.

I'm mainly looking at how to set up the flares cause I'd like to avoid the heat gun/bowl method if possible.
post #44 of 71
Thread Starter 
Looks like the precision ports are a closer fit to regular PVC, so I can probably pick some of that up and use regular pvc right angles for the corner
post #45 of 71
Thread Starter 
I've started looking around at getting pvc/mdf.

The mdf won't be an issue but for the pvc. The store near me has schedule 40 3" pvc as well as 3" sewage pvc (which is thinner), but only in white.

Is there any benefit to using a kit like precision ports versus just getting pvc and throwing a flare on both ends?

I'm going to need 90 degree elbows anyway to get it to fit. Along those lines, is it better to use a sweeping elbow (like this http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/a7/a7089cbe-b611-4df3-a0d4-9514722a9e77_300.jpg) or an L shaped elbow (like this: http://insertfittings.com/catalog/images/pvcelbowsocfemale.jpg )
post #46 of 71
The sweeping elbow will be better, and I would just go with the pvc at HD with a roundover bit flare.
post #47 of 71
Thread Starter 
Ya, that's easier, but I think it looks better with an actual flared port.

I'm gonna try messing around and see what I can come up with
post #48 of 71
Thread Starter 
Starting to work on the details.

I did some test fitting with some pvc elbows I currently have and when connecting a straight piece to the elbow there is a good 1/8"-1/4" gap (since the elbow has a tapered end). Probably not the best description but I can get a pic of it. Would that cause any issues because it certainly won't be a smooth transition.

I don't think I've ever used a greater pecentage of a full sheet of plywood/mdf hah
post #49 of 71
If you use something like pl premium to adhere the pvc, you can then fill and fair the gap with the pl.
post #50 of 71
Thread Starter 
Should I glue up the pvc? I wasn't planning on it in case I ever need to take it apart (not sure how likely that is anyway).

I can also see trying to fill that gap in being really tricky with a sweeping elbow. I'm not sure I'd be able to reach the corners
post #51 of 71
I would glue it so there isnt air leaks. You could at least run a bead around where the gap will be. Its really not going to make a huge difference though, there will just be slightly more turbulent air flow at really high output.
post #52 of 71
Thread Starter 
I'll try and play around with it and see how it goes.

Another question, I was reading another forum and came across someone stating the inside port flare shouldn't directly face the driver.

Obviously, mine is currently doing that. Is that going to cause issues? Should I leave a chunk of bracing in front so it at least has to go around something?
post #53 of 71
I wouldn't worry to much about it. There's the possibility of internal sound leakage, but your ports have a 180 degree turn, and are very long. They're likely referring to a straight port directly behind a driver.
post #54 of 71
Thread Starter 
Not many updates here lately. It's gonna be a few weeks before I can get the sub in, and I'm mostly doing some trial/error on parts currently.

I'm going to try bending the pvc myself sometime this weekend. We'll have to see how that goes.

Just wanted to say thanks to Jay and everyone else who chimed in.

The biggest decision now is using an iNuke or an EP amp

You probably won't hear much for now until the actual build starts, but stay tuned!
post #55 of 71
Which woofer are you going with (I think I recommended the ultimax 15)? The inuke filters only work to 20hz, so an ep4k with a minidsp would be abetter choice
post #56 of 71
Thread Starter 
The UXL-18
post #57 of 71
Thread Starter 
One other thing I forgot to ask. Do you know a good source for speaker grill mesh?

I'm going to make a cover with felt, but want something fairly solid to prevent something from puncturing the grill
post #58 of 71
I'm sure there's other places to source stuff like this from

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/steel-speaker-grills/323
post #59 of 71
Thread Starter 
Got another quick question. I've been working on some final measurements for the panel and I wonder if I'm going to run into an issue with getting the ports to change direction.

From left (includes the port flares) to right (only the 3"id pvc)
The 6.25" circle is the exterior port flare diameter
The 5.25" circle is the interior port flare diameter
3" is the distance between the edges of the internal port flares. Earlier you said the distance between the ports should be 3 inches. Am I interpreting this wrong (3 inches from the port opening versus 3 inches from the port flare opening)?
the 18.5" circle is for the sub
The distance from the outside of the port is 10"
The distance from the inside of the port is 3.5"
The port diameter is 3.5" external (3" internal")
.

I'm going to pick up some 3" pvc this weekend and I'm going to try bending the pipe with a 180 3.5" internal radius (10 inch external) bend. I was planning on this being 4 inches, which is still small) but I was measuring using the internal diameter instead of the outside diameter...

Is that going to be too tight of a bend? Is that bend even possible?
post #60 of 71
The ports can all be right next to each other, they're working together. As long as there's nothing within 3" of the port opening you're good. I cant answer your questions about bending PVC, never tried it.
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