PlayStation 4: Geared toward Home Entertainment - Page 6

Originally Posted by fido2 

Day before the expected announcement. Shall we have a game and see who can guess closest to announced specs?

Originally Posted by imagic 

Exactly. But that's a bit limiting. Expand it to iOS and all of Android and that's a whole different story. Can you say 'Ultimate Karaoke Machine' with a straight face?

Originally Posted by T2k 

Well, we already know from several leaks that it runs 4x dual-core A10-sourced AMD CPU and its GPU(s?) are (DX11.1 equivalent) Souther Island-derivative(s), most likely based on Pitcairn but possibly with some additional tricks so with the lack of 'Windows-tax' it might get to perform between Pitcairn and the current flagship, Tahiti (aka Radeon 7970) in expert hands.
Although rumors said 4GB RAM I bet they will ship it with 8GB because memory is dirt cheap, no need for any tricks, can come handy later (remember, they plan fdor another 5 years at least) and it will nicely match new specs expected from MS.
As far as storage foes 50GB BD support is a given and I expect it to have at least 500GB HDD space - spinning disk capacity is very cheap, it makes no sense to shortchange anyone here...
These are more or less obvious specs, along with the fact that Sony most likely learned their lesson from the PITA, steep learning curve PS3 forced on developers when they chose to switch to x86, I expect a much faster ramp up in great-looking, sophisticated games, possibly within a year after launch.

Big questions are the features:
- what's up with the obvious incompatibility with PS3 games, how's the cloud-based streaming will work (it's coming, Sony spent almost $400M on Gaikai for a reason)?
- beyond the obvious full DLNA etc support how's the long-awaited 'media hub' will work: will they fully support DTCP-IP out of the box like PS3 does now (this could prepare it for future broadcast/cable TV programming/streaming), h.264/mkv and now h.265 libraries from shares etc?
- how's the integration with my other AV stuff, with my Android gear, with PSP etc?
- what's the story with 4K, is it simply upscaling & BD50 movies or games get at least bumped to 2560x1440, like the GPU's PC counterparts do it more or less effortlessly nowadays?
- what's up with PSN vs buying and reselling games at my local Gamestop? Will they follow MS' uber-arrogant and stupid account/game lockdown plan or Sony remains smart and try to stay popular, to capitalize on the fact that it will still allow you to bring over your game to my place or swap games with me etc...?

Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman 

On that last note... it will be simple greed making the decisions. That's why Sony seems so gung-ho on downloadable games and even movies. You're locked down to one console, one game, one owner. Probably won't even be transferable if you sell the PS4. That's how things are trending. It would be a nice surprise if Sony did learn from MS and their great big mistakes.

Don't get your hopes up.

Originally Posted by fatbottom 

Similar to Steam? Although you can transfer the account to one computer, you can't sell, part exchange to gift games. But if they lock a game into your account, that'll kill the second hand market.

No question I would not buy another console if you have to buy them online if it's locked to your specific console

Originally Posted by fatbottom 

Similar to Steam? Although you can transfer the account to one computer, you can't sell, part exchange to gift games. But if they lock a game into your account, that'll kill the second hand market.

No question I would not buy another console if you have to buy them online if it's locked to your specific console

Originally Posted by CMonMan 

I thought that's what this thread was?

Originally Posted by fido2 

Yes, however its the day before. I just thought its the best time to pool thoughts based on final rumours/leaks. Might even give someone bragging rights for the closest guess.And after some of the in depth comments I've seen so far, I don't even think I'll post my uneducated guesses.

I just hope they have some excellent partnerships for media stream (netflix, hulu, etc...)

Originally Posted by fido2 

Day before the expected announcement. Shall we have a game and see who can guess closest to announced specs?

Originally Posted by CMonMan 

I thought that's what this thread was?

Originally Posted by fido2 

Yes, however its the day before. I just thought its the best time to pool thoughts based on final rumours/leaks. Might even give someone bragging rights for the closest guess.And after some of the in depth comments I've seen so far, I don't even think I'll post my uneducated guesses.

I just hope they have some excellent partnerships for media stream (netflix, hulu, etc...)

Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman 

CMonMan,

I agree with the general gist of your two posts above. However...

Vinyl actually is not the end all be all. It has nostalgia on its side, I'll give you that. But it has a high distortion ratio, it has wow and flutter due to the physical nature of its sound pickup mechanism, and doesn't have the dynamic range of the original source (nothing does, but it can get close). I've heard properly mastered Blu-ray audio discs (AIX makes some outstanding titles), SA-CD's, and DVD-Audio's that put vinyl to shame... and many were in multi-channel to boot. Most modern recordings being pressed on to LP's come from... gasp... digital sources. And I used to own my share of LP's back in the day.

For downloaded audio... Neil Young's Pono and other high resolution lossless audiophile services may hold some hope for high resolution audio instead of the MP3 crap of today. Again, as long as it's recorded and mastered with care. If only they had surround capabilities too.

Originally Posted by CMonMan 

I would be willing to bet that if one of the two manufacturers (Here I mean between Sony and MS), let's call them "Man A", choose to not allow a used game market (likely through a steam/stream/gakai/online account) and the other, let's call them "Man B", choose to allow a used game markter. Man A will lose the console war. Major players, especially stores specializing in video games (such as Gamestop- I use them as an example simply because they are well known), rely heavily on the used game market. If a console doesn't allow for used games, you can bet that those places will not push sales for that console. Floor space is everything. If a retailer can make 15 bucks on a new game, then buy it back every month and make another 5-25 bucks each time... they are going to be more likely to stock that console and push those games in the first place vs if they know they are only going to get the initial profit and that will end the cycle. Besides being pushed less by the major retailers, it would be a major deciding factor for consumers assuming other specs are close to equal. There are about 3 types of buyers. The first group will buy both systems, buy the games they want and not resell them but may be uninformed on which console is better and buy it based on what the store pushes (see above). The second group will buy new games and expect to trade them in when done for the next game they want. (if they can only trade in games for one console, they will likely want to buy that console). The third group will only be buying used games. Although the manufacturers won't profit off these used games, these people WILL still have to buy a console. They are obviously going to buy the console that allows them to play used games.

Also, speaking for myself and most close friends/family, we still want physical media.
-MUSIC- I had an MP3 player for a week and got rid of it. I had CD's and since have switched to Pandora. I realize THIS may not be the norm as many people have Ipods, but it is the norm in my circle. Even so, TRUE audiophiles that really care about the MUSIC quality generally will agree that nothing beats the quality of vinyl. If it was cost effective, many more people (including myself) would invest in vinyl. There's also something to be said about owning the physical media. Many people are also not tech savvy enough to deal with digital music (like most people over ~50 yrs old). People on the go want digital music fast and are willing to sacrifice on quality a little to get that. People who want quality music at home will get physical media.

-MOVIES-Digital movie libraries have improved, but for most digital still means netflix or the like. While there is a place for it, it is no replacement for physical media. True videophiles that really care about VIDEO quality will agree that nothing beats physical media (mostly blu ray at the moment, with other advancements like 4k on the possible horizon). Being cost effective, most videophiles still invest in blu-rays even with digital sources available. There's also something to be said about owning the media. I will never give up my blu-rays. The quality is better then any other source readily available to me, I know as long as I have power, I can play it. Many people are also not tech-savvy enough to want to deal with digital movies (like most people over ~50 yrs old). People on the go may want to play a movie on their phone, and many do appreciate streaming services like netflix and they are willing to sacrifice on qualtiy a little to get that. People who want quality movies at home will continue to get physical media.

-VIDEO GAMES- There is a market for digital and streaming video games. Phones and tablets have that market. People buying console are doing so because they want the quality and features that phones and tablets do NOT provide. True video game enthusiasts that really care about video game quality will agree that nothing beats a physical disc (or at least an equal quality download). Angry birds is fun and those types of games will continue to do well on phones and tablets, but actual video game players want more. Being cost effective, most video game enthusiasts will still invest in a high-end video game disc for their console over a streaming version of angry birds. If they care about the graphics and overall game quality, angry birds games are not in the same ballpark. They also prefer the physical copy over a downloaded version. People still like to play in areas that do not have good internet. Being in WI, many areas in the northern half of the state and most of U.P. have poor internet service. In many cases even if it's there, people do not have it. I would imagine that is the same in other areas of the United States, and especially true in numerous other countries. People do not want to be forced to have internet to play a game. They also want the rights to that game. They want to take it to another house and play. They want to borrow it to friend or borrow it from a friend. They also want to be able to trade it in when buying the next game OR just buy it used to begin with. Of the 15 or so people I know that will be interested in buying a next-gen console, if one system does not allow for a physical used game market and the other one does, the decision will have already been made with no further specs. I would imagine that is true most anywhere?

This gen will NEED used game media to be successful. There are just TOO many players that have grown up with physical media and the idea of owning the physical game and being able to buy and sell used games. Bandwidths capable of Blu ray quality are also not yet widely available, making the blu-ray player necessary. I do see a shift to digital/streaming media being made and likely the PS5 and XBOX 1080 will be there for it, but the PS4 and XBOX 720 will still need that physical ability. In fact, I could see the PS4/Xbox 720 being the transitional consoles to make that shift. I could see manufacturers selling 65 dollar physical copies of the game and selling a 35 dollar digital download version as well. This would be a no-brainer for new-game buyers and equal in price to a traditional used game for used-game buyers without the hassle or worries of dealing with a used game store. As technology increases and bandwidths are increased, eventually blu-ray quality will be available streaming a new generation will be buying these consoles. When the people currently in their 50's and 60's basically leave the market, the 30's and 40's year old become 40's and 50's and the teens and 20's become the 20's and 30's and a whole new set of digitally raised children get into gaming and movies just as the technology to do so becomes readily available and has been slowly integrated, the next-next gen (PS5 and XBOX 1080) WILL rely solely on streaming. BY that time, I would imagine that traditional consoles will simply be a home-server that you keep your purchased media(movies, games, music) on, and you wirelessly access them "on the cloud" with any phone, tablet, watch, monitor, or tv you have. Yes, 4k and above will be used in a niche market for extremely large screens and eventually used in the above scenario as well, but in the next 20 years, the major shift in technology will be wireless streaming of high-quality content. It's already begun, and it's continually coming. But, people are not quite ready for it and I just don't think we are there on the large scale quite yet. Looking forward to tomorrow's news. I will throw my computer out the window if it is about the Vita! These are obviously just my opinions on where we are at in regards to console gaming. BUT, with technology constantly moving at an exponential rate I could very well be wrong (wouldn't be the first time and likely wouldn't be the last! lol).

Personally, Whenever the shift above is actually made (whether I'm ready for it or not!) to a completely digital/streaming media world, all of my physical media (blu-rays, old (PS3.. or 4 if I am right) will be brought to our cabin to be used "off the internet grid" and I will conform to rest of the streaming world (hopefully ripping my blu-ray at blu-ray quality first!). As an open-minded, relatively intelligent, technically interested, country-raised, 25 year old college grad- I certainly look forward to what's to come. Sometimes it's crazy when you think about how far media (and all of technology) has come just in our short time here and the short time before that. I honestly don't think there are many people that truly know where our technology is going to be 25 or even 50+ years from now. 50 years ago, color TV's were just starting to become mainstream and Atari and Pong still were 10 years from being created... 25 years ago, Microsoft and Apple had just started their battles- Apple with Apple IIGS and Microsoft with Windows 2.0. Nobody had heard of "HDTV". NES and Sega Genesis were just released, and Super Nintendo was still a few years away.. . Let that set in. , take a look at pictures of Pong, Apple IIGS, Windows 2.0, and NES, then compare them to your Gaming PC or PS3/Xbox 360 running on your 55 inch 1080p display. Crazy! I remember playing Madden 96 and being blown away by how "real" it looked. Now, that game wouldn't even cut it as an app on a phone. Can't wait for this round of Next-gen and what is to come beyond that.

Sorry, this really turned into a rambling.

TL;DR? My opinion is that a console without physical used gamed market will fail at this point in time. That said, I am excited for the future of gaming on these "next-gen" and beyound.

Originally Posted by CMonMan 

TL;DR? My opinion is that a console without physical used gamed market will fail at this point in time. That said, I am excited for the future of gaming on these "next-gen" and beyound.

Originally Posted by CMonMan 

By reading your post, I can say without a doubt that you are more knowledgeable on these things then I am.

The point I guess I was trying to make is that until both the quality of digital/streaming media is equal to or better then physical media and another older non-digitally raised generation leaves the market while our current young children and teens enter it, I think there is still a need for the physical media. When bandwidths and technology allow equal or greater quality to be streamed and downloaded (compared to it's readily available physical counterpart) AND the people buying the media are familiar with and have grown up in the digital era, we certainly will come to point where most all media is streamed and downloaded and most people are able to accept that. I just don't think we are there yet. There are still barriers to overcome, and I fear that if one of the two manufacturers(between Sony and MS) try to jump the gun, and the other doesn't.. the one that tries to make the switch may being doing so too soon and will lose a large enough share of their customers that it will have negative consequences. It's coming, but I don't think we are quite ready for it yet and I just hope that if I am right that the manufacturers get that.

By the generation thing I guess I mean this- My grandparents are 75, my parents 50, I am 25, and my kids are on the way. My grandparents will stop listening to music and stop watching television if they need to try to learn how to stream/download media. They can barely use the remote. My parents have used computers, but mainly just for one application and would prefer their physical media.. but COULD adapt to streaming/downloading if it was forced on them. I still like my physical media. I like owning it and having a used market, but MOSTLY like it better because netflix quality does not compare to blu ray quality, etc. My kids will likely grow up glued to an OLED display and having streaming media will likely be all they know. OF those 4 groups, my granparents spend about 25%, parents 50%, me 25% and kids 0%. With the info above, a streaming world would not quite fly at this time BUT when my grandparents inevitably start spending 0%, my parents 25%, me 50% and my kids 25% AND technology has caught up to the point that streaming media is equal or better quality then physical media with bandwidths capable of supporting it, streaming media WILL be the standard and physical media will only continue to exist for extreme cases of backing up information, nostalgia, or coasters. I guess I agree with you (assuming I understand what you said correctly as I do not know all the terms you used, but can fill in the blanks). What you referred to (and I believe I've now covered), was just one component of the point I was trying to make- That Streaming media is the next frontier and will certainly become the standard, but we've still got some barriers to cross before I believe we are actually ready for it.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Burton 

You can ignore my post if you want, I just thought I'd say incase anyone didn't know. When I read your post about the downloaded games, I just wanted to say in the graphical or PQ department of downloaded games, there is no difference in picture quality between a downloaded game, and the same game on disc, it's just commandments for the GPU.

That's all I wanted to say

Originally Posted by fatbottom 

Legal downloads should have no effect on your ISP monthly limit.

Originally Posted by CMonMan 

I agree, but the ability for most people to download a high quality game is not feasible yet. For instance, there is no way I could download Far Cry 3 on the bandwidth offered in my area. The same goes for much of the U.S, and other countries. It's coming, but it's not there yet. So at this point, downloaded games are limited.

Originally Posted by imagic 

PS4 will let you play a game as you download it. You can start playing just about right away, the rest of the game - which you won't even get to for hours or days - keeps downloading as you play. That's because the PS4 has a separate download controller with its own processor.

Originally Posted by 8mile13 

Sony Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida said that PS4 will not block the use of second-hand games.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-tells-eurogamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games

Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson 

Note that he said "can play"... That doesn't rule out you having to pay to activate a used game so they can pass money on to the developer's who are always whining that they should get a cut. I'm still suspicious at the way that question was pondered with PR, then answered.

Originally Posted by T2k 

He's Japanese, things can change etc, give him a break.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson 

I wasn't the only one who noticed how he danced around the question. http://kotaku.com/5986055/sony-wed-like-a-straight-answer-about-this-used-games-stuff

Originally Posted by imagic 

I want an open used market, I want to pay as little as possible for Entertainment, I share these goals. I also recognize that video game development it's not like garbage collection or package delivery, if you want cool games you are going to have to pay into the system sometimes.

Here is a random guess: any activation fee associated with a used game will have to do with accessing online play. unless of course you pay for a membership. solo campaigns on used games on consoles with no internet connection will be no big deal, I'm almost certain that will still work based on a number of statements.