Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman
I'm going off of what I've gleaned from discussions about object-oriented soundtracks (quite a bit more sophistication than your normal channel-based audio codec like DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD) and the H.265 video codec.
It does not matter, they carry audio only and some metadata/algorithm/whatnot, they are not significant compared to video information.
Given the ratio of compression to have equivalent 2160p @ 24 fps (at, say, 10 bit 4:2:2 -- not 8 bit!) compression quality to H.264, you need bitrates somewhere in the same ballpark of the high 30 Mbps or greater.
See, that's why I asked for details - you can use h.265 at any bitrate
and it will look significantly better than same-bitrate h.264 footage. This also means h.265 significantly improves efficiency, often in the range of 30-40%
- according to tests ~8-10Mb/s h.265-encoded 1080p24 w/ 7.1c looks pretty good, BD-like[/b] - double that and you have 4K, add another 2-4Mb/s (for whatever overhead we want to deal with/all that extra fancy audio meta info/whatnot) and SUM= ~20-22Mb/s or about ~10GB/hr or so, easily fitting even 3+ hour movies w/ extras onto current BD50 disks.
Look at a Blu-ray on a projection system that only has video encoded in the teens and 20's. Macroblocking and banding artifacts are usually more apparent... and now we have multiple times the pixel depth to deal with.
I'm pretty sure you are mixing up MPEG2 and MPEG4 bitrates... I don't recall the exact numbers but my best looking BDs are either ~38Mb/s MPEG2 or ~18-20Mb/s MPEG4 encodings as far as I remember.
FYI macroblocking is a classic MPEG2 issue, it's a lot less prevalent in MPEG4 and in h.265 they are introducing much more intelligent encoding algorithms eg it only increases the sampling resolution where it counts (in a very simplistic way: a big, solid black aread won't get the same sampling rate as a more complex one next to it but the latter peaks up very high etc.)
European broadcasting of UHD is starting at bitrates in the 40's (and broadcasting quality has never been as good as physical HD media).
Interesting - I couldn't recall a single
"bitrate" metioned in ITU's Rec2020 doc so I pulled it up again - can you find one in this for me? http://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bt/R-REC-BT.2020-0-201208-I!!PDF-E.pdf
(FWIW it wouldn't even make sense to try to 'diktat' things like this as it's up to the individual equipment vendors, SoC suppliers etc and their customers to come up with sensible offerings.)
Now, add on full 2160p 3D capabilities and high frame rate material (48 and 60 fps and others) and then combine a larger file size and bit pool for object-oriented sound (Dolby Atmos or DTS Multi-Dimensional Audio) and you need more space and a higher bitrate than a normal 50 GB Blu-ray disc to hold and stream the data. Also, the video compression must hold up to larger average screen sizes for UHD content.
It's possible that even 128 GB may not be enough... there are 250 GB Blu-ray discs available via TDK.
I would rather have UHD finally have video that is visibly lossless to the 4k master with state of the art audio than suffer from extreme compression in order to fit the data down an antiquated internet pipeline.
I'm pretty sure you are way off predicting larger than BD50 requirements and the internet is only "antiquated" because of our quasi-monopoly based, corporate-rigged, anti-competitive telecom market landscape, where FCC is in the pocket of these big, giant scumbag corporations like ATT, TWC, Comcast etc.
Take the $1,500 RED Player, for example. It is solely internet based (no physical media) and the audio specs for their UHD downloadable movies are already lower than Blu-ray. We're going backwards, not forwards with internet content. iTunes, for example, may be more convenient for ala carte songs, but the quality just isn't there. I don't want the same thing to happen to home theater.
They had to offer something to complement their camera systems and at the same time they might try it on the HT market... different approach, even different market segment.