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Speaker wire - Page 3

post #61 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Or real. rolleyes.gif
I love how bull headed you are...smile.gif...have you used anti cable?..you should also change your avatar bill from Yoda to chewy..that way I can say:Laugh it up fuzz ball!...smile.gif
post #62 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

I love how bull headed you are...smile.gif...have you used anti cable?..you should also change your avatar bill from Yoda to chewy..that way I can say:Laugh it up fuzz ball!...smile.gif

And by real, I'm sure Bill doesn't mean the testimonials aren't real...

...just that any perceived improvements they are testifying about are based on belief and placebo (i.e. not real).

One doesn't need to use an anti-cable to know that it should sound as good as any other copper cable of similar gauge...but no better.

That again has to do with that stubborn 'S' again biggrin.gif
post #63 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

One doesn't need to use an anti-cable to know that it should sound as good as any other copper cable of similar gauge...but no better.

That again has to do with that stubborn 'S' again biggrin.gif
Don't knock it if you haven't tried it...wink.gif
post #64 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

I love how bull headed you are...smile.gif...have you used anti cable?..you should also change your avatar bill from Yoda to chewy..that way I can say:Laugh it up fuzz ball!...smile.gif

Hmmmm, and you accused me of bashing because I didn't agree with you that cables can alter sound, that only the speaker makes the sound, not the cable.

Yeah, it's your money dude, why stop at anti cable, go for the miraculous MIT's, then you're sure to really catch even MORE detail out of your movies. That actually made me laugh when I read that, thanks.....bud
post #65 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Don't knock it if you haven't tried it...wink.gif

I promise you, if you show me scientific evidence that it makes an improvement, and I absolutely will try them. smile.gif

But if all that can be shown is anecdotal testimonials, like - "I put them in my system and they made such a huge improvement" rolleyes.gif

Unfortunately, there is no scientific evidence (i.e. an ABX test with statistically significant results), because there is no scientific basis for any sonic improvement. cool.gif

And I'm not knocking the cables, I am certain they sound as good as any other cable of similar guage...

...I am knocking the unproven belief that they make any kind of improvement.
post #66 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post

Hmmmm, and you accused me of bashing because I didn't agree with you that cables can alter sound, that only the speaker makes the sound, not the cable.

Yeah, it's your money dude, why stop at anti cable, go for the miraculous MIT's, then you're sure to really catch even MORE detail out of your movies. That actually made me laugh when I read that, thanks.....bud
Lol...that wasn't a bash to Bill...just a goofy comment...and I'm not looking for people to agree with me...I'm just offering my exsperince with them...dont take my word for it...try them for yourself....wink.gif

And here is some info for the science lovers...smile.gif

http://anticables.com/faq
Edited by josh6113 - 2/12/13 at 2:42am
post #67 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

And by real, I'm sure Bill doesn't mean the testimonials aren't real...
Oh, I do. You find testimonials here too :
http://www.machinadynamica.com/index.html

rolleyes.gif
Quote:
And here is some info for the science lovers...smile.gif

http://anticables.com/faq
What science? The only science on display there is that of how to reel in suckers with techno- babble that doesn't have any scientific basis whatsoever. The only difference between what they're selling and what the guys in the other link are selling is the ease with which one can see through their false advertising.
Edited by Bill Fitzmaurice - 2/12/13 at 6:03am
post #68 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Oh, I do. You find testimonials here too :
http://www.machinadynamica.com/index.html

rolleyes.gif
What science? The only science on display there is that of how to reel in suckers with techno- babble that doesn't have any scientific basis whatsoever. The only difference between what they're selling and what the guys in the other link are selling is the ease with which one can see through their false advertising.
Now that's a link to hyperbole...smile.gif....and if the testimonials are fake...prove it...smile.gif...and I understand why you won't believe it bill...your a product of science...and science is the only truth...right?...smile.gif
post #69 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

http://anticables.com/faq

Now that's a link to hyperbole...smile.gif...and if the answers provided are true...prove it...smile.gif...and i understand why you believe it josh...you're a product of marketing...and marketing is the only truth...right?...smile.gif
post #70 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

Now that's a link to hyperbole...smile.gif...and if the answers provided are true...prove it...smile.gif...and i understand why you believe it josh...you're a product of marketing...and marketing is the only truth...right?...smile.gif
Lol...love the reversal there...smile.gif...my link is about speaker wires..,Bill's was a testimonial link to springs and crystal balls and little flying saucers...smile.gif
post #71 of 92
As grandma used to say, "Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it annoys the pig." Good troll while it lasted but it's time to move on. Nothing to see here.
post #72 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post

As grandma used to say, "Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it annoys the pig." Good troll while it lasted but it's time to move on. Nothing to see here.
Lol...no trolling...just having a healthy convo...this is a forum...wink.gif
post #73 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post

Good troll while it lasted but it's time to move on.
+1, and with that he goes onto my blocked list. You keep feeding them, they keep coming back.
post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

+1, and with that he goes onto my blocked list. You keep feeding them, they keep coming back.
What's a matter Bill?...did I strike a nerve?...we are just talking...I've not forced anything on anyone...that would be trolling...I've just offered my findings and opinion...smile.gif...take a breathe my friend...no reason to be upset unless your taking things personally...which you shouldn't be...smile.gif
post #75 of 92
Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that these wires do "sound" better.
The "Anticable" setup for my 5.1 system would cost me about $750.
That's about 50x what the roll of 14/2 cable I'm currently using cost me.
There is no way possible changing the cables would result in 50x better sound quality. To me, that would be a great waste of money...
post #76 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Lol...love the reversal there...smile.gif...my link is about speaker wires..,Bill's was a testimonial link to springs and crystal balls and little flying saucers...smile.gif

Both are links to pages where people make statements and present them as though they are facts...

...expect people to become believers on the basis of the statements

...provide no backing up to the statements other than "testimonials" from other believers

...and increase their personal wealth because people purchase their products based on belief.
post #77 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Don't knock it if you haven't tried it...wink.gif


I have not tried Anti-Cables but I have tried these:

MIT Shotgun
AppleMark


and these:

Bybee cable
AppleMark


The MIT cables retail for $2500, The Bybee cables are not available through retail outlets but cost around $1500 if you look into Bybee you'll find the technology is achieved by combining nanotube quantum purifiers with a proprietary metal wire network (Bybee's marketing pitch).

I listened to both cables in my system switching and level matching and I couldn't hear a difference, however the MIT's are about 10 db louder, that little box has something to do with the increase in db. And my test wasn't a comprehensive excercise in determining an audible change it was sighted and I was aware of which cable I was listening to at the time.

So for me it doesn't make $ense to purchase high end speaker wire.
post #78 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Shep View Post

I have not tried Anti-Cables but I have tried these:

MIT Shotgun
AppleMark


and these:

Bybee cable
AppleMark


The MIT cables retail for $2500, The Bybee cables are not available through retail outlets but cost around $1500 if you look into Bybee you'll find the technology is achieved by combining nanotube quantum purifiers with a proprietary metal wire network (Bybee's marketing pitch).

I listened to both cables in my system switching and level matching and I couldn't hear a difference, however the MIT's are about 10 db louder, that little box has something to do with the increase in db. And my test wasn't a comprehensive excercise in determining an audible change it was sighted and I was aware of which cable I was listening to at the time.


So for me it doesn't make $ense to purchase high end speaker wire.
Very true...thanks for your input...very interesting
post #79 of 92
Something I was thinking about last night - with all the debate about cables, has anyone ever replaced the driver tinsel leads with some "magic wire"? I'd imagine that should make a difference, too. And the voice coil winding copper...maybe switch it to silver-plated copper to get airier vocals and more transparency in music. And the solder holding all of the bits together in the receiver or amplifier should all be special audiophile solder, too, and all of the resistors and capacitors should have special-material legs where they're connected to the PCB, or even if they're all point-to-point.

There are so many components in the electrical path between the wall receptacle and the driver making noise that swapping any single component (short of the driver itself) isn't going to make an audible difference. For the argument that it does make an audible difference, the copper inside the receptacle in the wall should make a difference if you swap it for an "audiophile power receptacle" (and sadly enough, those exist), so simply changing interconnects shouldn't be enough for someone that thinks they alter the sound. Receptacles, power cords, interconnects...but what about the interconnect jacks? The wiring from the panel box to the receptacle everything is plugged in to? It gets silly. And where are the white papers linking x change in cable inductance or capacitance to y change in the music? That should be repeatable from Brand A speakers to Brand B speakers using the same "special interconnect". But given that different speakers normally sound realistically different, wouldn't the attribute change to Brand A speakers be different from Brand B speakers? In which case, it would be impossible to characterize a particular cable unless that cable is proprietary to a particular speaker, and the advertised results deal only with the changes to that speaker.

I might be a bit cynical, having been there and tried it with my last headphone setup (Audez'e LCD-1s), but typically the amount of money spent on cables for speakers in a given price range is enough that, instead of buying $2000 cables and $2000 speakers, one could buy $4000 speakers and have something verified via scientific measurement to sound different.
post #80 of 92
Once in another forum, a new poster came on asking about cables for his brand new $1000/pair speakers. Someone recommended $800 cables. I said if he had $800 to spend that he should return the $1000 speakers, buy $1750 speakers and $50 wires. I was almost kicked out of the forum by all the audiophiles! eek.gif
post #81 of 92
Has anyone on AVS ever used Audio DiffMaker to test some of these silly claims?
post #82 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Once in another forum, a new poster came on asking about cables for his brand new $1000/pair speakers. Someone recommended $800 cables. I said if he had $800 to spend that he should return the $1000 speakers, buy $1750 speakers and $50 wires. I was almost kicked out of the forum by all the audiophiles! eek.gif

Heh, you actually provided useful advice that could give him a real improvement in sound. No forum for you, one year!
post #83 of 92
Quote:
... a new poster came on asking about cables for his brand new $1000/pair speakers. Someone recommended $800 cables.
Only $800 cables for $1000 speakers? Shameful. A true audiophile knows that you have to spend at least as much on cables as your speakers are worth. Otherwise, you'll embarrass your speakers and they'll refuse to play nice (music). smile.gif
Quote:
I said if he had $800 to spend that he should return the $1000 speakers, buy $1750 speakers and $50 wires.
Nicely done! cool.gif
post #84 of 92
That Anticable FAQ has a lot of gems, but I think this section is my favorite:

"Wire Directionality?

As an electronic engineer I struggled with this topic for quite a while because it did not fit into any of the electrical models I have learned. It simply does not make sense that an alternating music signal should favor a direction in a wire. One of the great things about the audio hobby is that we seem to be able to hear things well before we can explain them; and just because we can’t explain something, does not mean it does not exist.

While wire directionality is not fully understood, it is clear that the molecular structure of drawn metal wire is not symmetrical and it is this physical difference which is consistent with which direction the wire sounds better. When the directionality is “backwards” there is a loss of resolution, cymbals sound like a spray-can and are truncated, voices are grainy and lack presences, and bass is less defined. When the wire directionality is “correct” the music is more relaxed, pleasant and believable. Once you hear the difference, you will never want to have to listen to wire backwards ever again.

All Anti-Cable products have the correct directionality marked with an arrow."

What if I've had my speakers wired backwards all these years! biggrin.gif
post #85 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

What if I've had my speakers wired backwards all these years! biggrin.gif

Or worse yet...

...only one of them eek.gif

Then they would be 180 degrees out-of-phase with respect to directionality - and that has to be bad, right rolleyes.gif
post #86 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

That Anticable FAQ has a lot of gems, but I think this section is my favorite:

"Wire Directionality?

As an electronic engineer I struggled with this topic for quite a while because it did not fit into any of the electrical models I have learned. It simply does not make sense that an alternating music signal should favor a direction in a wire. One of the great things about the audio hobby is that we seem to be able to hear things well before we can explain them; and just because we can’t explain something, does not mean it does not exist.

While wire directionality is not fully understood, it is clear that the molecular structure of drawn metal wire is not symmetrical and it is this physical difference which is consistent with which direction the wire sounds better. When the directionality is “backwards” there is a loss of resolution, cymbals sound like a spray-can and are truncated, voices are grainy and lack presences, and bass is less defined. When the wire directionality is “correct” the music is more relaxed, pleasant and believable. Once you hear the difference, you will never want to have to listen to wire backwards ever again.

All Anti-Cable products have the correct directionality marked with an arrow."

What if I've had my speakers wired backwards all these years! biggrin.gif

This is what happens when engineers sell their souls for easy money.
post #87 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

All Anti-Cable products have the correct directionality marked with an arrow."

What if I've had my speakers wired backwards all these years! biggrin.gif

Then you could play a country song forwards and still get your wife, your trailer, and your dog back. Beats playing the song backwards.
post #88 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

That Anticable FAQ has a lot of gems, but I think this section is my favorite:

"Wire Directionality?

As an electronic engineer I struggled with this topic for quite a while because it did not fit into any of the electrical models I have learned. It simply does not make sense that an alternating music signal should favor a direction in a wire. One of the great things about the audio hobby is that we seem to be able to hear things well before we can explain them; and just because we can’t explain something, does not mean it does not exist.

While wire directionality is not fully understood, it is clear that the molecular structure of drawn metal wire is not symmetrical and it is this physical difference which is consistent with which direction the wire sounds better. When the directionality is “backwards” there is a loss of resolution, cymbals sound like a spray-can and are truncated, voices are grainy and lack presences, and bass is less defined. When the wire directionality is “correct” the music is more relaxed, pleasant and believable. Once you hear the difference, you will never want to have to listen to wire backwards ever again.

All Anti-Cable products have the correct directionality marked with an arrow."
They must really take people to be complete fools to put that drivel on their site. But since some people buy them I guess they're right. rolleyes.gif
post #89 of 92
^They prove, quite convincingly, that PT Barnum was right....there really is a sucker born every minute.
post #90 of 92
Imagine bringing home a nice new pair of speaker cables in a fancy box or even better the doorbell rings and the UPS dude hands you a box, you quickly open it to realize it's your beautiful new set of cables from Xmfg. And look, you've got to install them just like you do those fancy unidirectional tires, heck there's even an arrow for ease of install. Pull out the old and throw in the new.

Press play lean back breath out...WOW those sound great! They look great too. ;^)
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