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NEED TO FILL BIG ROOM HELP WITH MY DECISION PLS!! - Page 3

post #61 of 123
2/16/13 at 7:15am
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You guys running full range brought back some memories I had when I first calibrated my JBL's. This was my center JBL 3622N at my center seat or main LP.



Here is how it measured on small with an 80hz XO



Here were the subs with an 80hz XO



Here they were together running small, 80hz Crossover, with subs



Then I tried to measure them ful range with no subs and I got this!



I said to myself what the hell do I need a sub for and then ran some movies comparing the two and it was no contest, subs remained but the graphs looked similar and I don't know why.
Then I added dual DTS-10's which replaced the 8 sealed subs and this was their response


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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

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post #62 of 123
2/17/13 at 2:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


You are located where?? Lol i am coming over!! Ill bring the popcorn
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post #63 of 123
2/17/13 at 5:14pm
That was my old JBL eD 190v2 setup. I had 8 sealed subs and those 3622n speakers. My system now is better! You can drive up anytime, 4 hours on 87 and 90 exit 31. I am the Utica area. If you heard what your sub could do with multiples you would take them home. Right now I am running them with only 500 watts per sub and using just 10 drivers and the bass is nuts! I was thinking of trying to design a tapped horn with lilmike with these drivers which would be amazing! Not that anyone would need even more output, that is for using less subs and drivers for less cost.
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post #64 of 123
2/17/13 at 6:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

That was my old JBL eD 190v2 setup. I had 8 sealed subs and those 3622n speakers. My system now is better! You can drive up anytime, 4 hours on 87 and 90 exit 31. I am the Utica area. If you heard what your sub could do with multiples you would take them home. Right now I am running them with only 500 watts per sub and using just 10 drivers and the bass is nuts! I was thinking of trying to design a tapped horn with lilmike with these drivers which would be amazing! Not that anyone would need even more output, that is for using less subs and drivers for less cost.
Mk im deff for tapped horn with these drivers im in. But i would love to come up and hear what you got and check out those ed subs. I would have to rent a truck in case i decide to take them home. Your 4 hrs from me?
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post #65 of 123
2/17/13 at 6:06pm
Thread Starter 
Mk did u check out that new sub from dayton 15 in driver. Whag do you think? http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-514
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post #66 of 123
2/17/13 at 6:51pm
Here is the model for both, the single sealed 15 vs one A7s-650.



I am not sure if the Dayton would go over excursion with 800 watts because this version of winisd does not let me check cone excursion.
Edited by MKtheater - 2/17/13 at 7:45pm
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post #67 of 123
2/18/13 at 5:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Here is the model for both, the single sealed 15 vs one A7s-650.



I am not sure if the Dayton would go over excursion with 800 watts because this version of winisd does not let me check cone excursion.
mk to me that sub looks like i modeled pretty good. Ik its a 15 vs 13 which says a lot for the 13. But the dayton looks pretty interesting. Y is it u think the purpose of them making that drive and the intent they have for it. For the lows? Cause they already have there other driver titanic mkiii and the rs. What size box did u model that dayton driver in? Hard for me to see on my phone. They recommend a 3.0cu. Maybe ricci can test this driver out.
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post #68 of 123
2/18/13 at 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

mk to me that sub looks like i modeled pretty good. Ik its a 15 vs 13 which says a lot for the 13. But the dayton looks pretty interesting. Y is it u think the purpose of them making that drive and the intent they have for it. For the lows? Cause they already have there other driver titanic mkiii and the rs. What size box did u model that dayton driver in? Hard for me to see on my phone. They recommend a 3.0cu. Maybe ricci can test this driver out.

I will remodel that driver so I can see the cone excursion. That 15 needs a bigger box than normal 15's. It was 22 inch cubed. Here comes another one.
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post #69 of 123
2/18/13 at 7:07am
Here they are using the power that keeps excursion under x-max for full bandwidth.

The single sealed 15(20 inch cubed) vs your eD sub.

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post #70 of 123
2/18/13 at 7:15am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Here they are using the power that keeps excursion under x-max for full bandwidth.

The single sealed 15(20 inch cubed) vs your eD sub.


thats 1 eD vs the 1 15in? or 2 eD Vs 1 15in? so what this is telling us is that the eD is superior?
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post #71 of 123
2/18/13 at 7:21am
That is your sub, one eD A7S-650(2 drivers and 1300 watts) vs one 15. Now if you use the full 800 watts on the Dayton it gets way past excursion at even 20hz! This is keeping excursion under x-max even at 5hz. I can change it to be excursion limited to 10hz if you wish. If I were going to build a sub it would have to be better than what I have, not equal or less than. That driver is $200 and the SI 18 is much better for less!
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post #72 of 123
2/18/13 at 9:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

That is your sub, one eD A7S-650(2 drivers and 1300 watts) vs one 15. Now if you use the full 800 watts on the Dayton it gets way past excursion at even 20hz! This is keeping excursion under x-max even at 5hz. I can change it to be excursion limited to 10hz if you wish. If I were going to build a sub it would have to be better than what I have, not equal or less than. That driver is $200 and the SI 18 is much better for less!
Yea your right i did think the SI is a better value and its a 18in. Now how do u think that one 18in si would compare to my sub.
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post #73 of 123
2/18/13 at 10:06am
Hang on, I will show you.

Here they are



However, here are the same vs the 190v2 from eD.



Ricci measured both the SI and the 190v2 and the SI was much better so the sims are not as accurate. I also think the 13av2 is better than the 190v2 down low but you still need more of them being smaller drivers. Here is what it looks like with one vs one ve one. Remember I have 12 and I used to have 8 190v2's. The 12 AV's are better in my room without question and have 6 dBs more ouput at 10hz.

Here they are with one SI vs one 190v2 vs one 13av2



This shows the 190v2 having 3 more dBs of output vs the 13. So in my room the 8 190v2s should have 3 dBs more than 8 13av2 or about the same with my 12 13's vs my 8 190v2s. This is not correct because the 13av2's have less rolloff and had less THD at 10hz with a higher spl to boot. I was close to 6 dBs more output at 10hz using the same THD with the 13av2's so again the sims are wrong. Maybe it was my amp on the 13's that made the difference, who knows.
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post #74 of 123
2/19/13 at 4:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Hang on, I will show you.

Here they are



However, here are the same vs the 190v2 from eD.



Ricci measured both the SI and the 190v2 and the SI was much better so the sims are not as accurate. I also think the 13av2 is better than the 190v2 down low but you still need more of them being smaller drivers. Here is what it looks like with one vs one ve one. Remember I have 12 and I used to have 8 190v2's. The 12 AV's are better in my room without question and have 6 dBs more ouput at 10hz.

Here they are with one SI vs one 190v2 vs one 13av2



This shows the 190v2 having 3 more dBs of output vs the 13. So in my room the 8 190v2s should have 3 dBs more than 8 13av2 or about the same with my 12 13's vs my 8 190v2s. This is not correct because the 13av2's have less rolloff and had less THD at 10hz with a higher spl to boot. I was close to 6 dBs more output at 10hz using the same THD with the 13av2's so again the sims are wrong. Maybe it was my amp on the 13's that made the difference, who knows.
thanks mk the si subs look like a winner for the price. What were u selling your subs for again? And how far from me are you?
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post #75 of 123
2/19/13 at 4:47am
Thread Starter 
Mk what if i was to port the si sub and do 2 of them?
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post #76 of 123
2/19/13 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Mk what if i was to port the si sub and do 2 of them?

Several folks are straight cloning Gorillas dual opposed "silverback" design. You should consider that IMO.
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post #77 of 123
2/19/13 at 6:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Several folks are straight cloning Gorillas dual opposed "silverback" design. You should consider that IMO.
Link for this?
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post #78 of 123
2/19/13 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Several folks are straight cloning Gorillas dual opposed "silverback" design. You should consider that IMO.
Link for this?

With a room that big I think I'd start with two suspecting to add on.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435795/first-diy-project-for-a-guy-looking-to-upgrade-multiple-sealed-18s/870

I know you are not super excited about DIY, wonder what he would say about making the cuts for you and shipping them ready to assemble. Offer him good beer and money. He's outside of philly.

If you are not wanting to build or buy mostly built stuff, anything in MK's place is going to rock so that's looking like a solid option for you IMO.
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post #79 of 123
2/19/13 at 7:09am
I think he is using the Dayton HO 18's in dual opposed cabs. Ported will get you much more spl at and around tune but if you want the low end you have to tune it deep which means much bigger! I will graph you two ported SI's which would cost the same as two of my subs. The SI's have more output than the Dayton HO 18s.



The SI's want a big box and they want to go low. The design is using a 45x45x24 box tuned to 10.5hz with a 8 inch 36 inch long port. 950 watts powers both and keeps it under x-max. You may have to run a HP filter at 9hz or so. Winisd automatically selects a 10.6 hz tune for this driver in a vented -6 extended box. I went a littel bigger to keep the port from being over 50 inches long.
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post #80 of 123
2/19/13 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I think he is using the Dayton HO 18's in dual opposed cabs.

I remember at one point he compared the Dayton to the SI's in the same box. I thought he ended with the SI's but I'm prolly wrong.
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post #81 of 123
2/19/13 at 7:19am
Yeah, He did have both. The SI offers more output at 10hz but the dayton offers a huge company which would usually have them in stock with no wait times. The SI is cheaper too so they are tempting even for me. If nobody buys my subs I will turn them into Tapped horns if I can. If it works I will have more capability than a DTS-10 and have 6 of them.
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post #82 of 123
2/19/13 at 7:20am
You would be better served in opening a thread in the DIY forum as a lot of those guys don't post in here.

Having recently gone DIY there is no going back to commercial subs for me. Way more bang for the buck, and it is fun smile.gif
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post #83 of 123
2/19/13 at 7:29am
A couple thoughts:

If you're wanting to build something, the daytons and SIs both are good options. I've listened to both in my room in the same boxes and I did not notice a difference in output. I thought the daytons had a deeper tone and a slightly cleaner sound in my boxes - although they may have been a bit too small for the SIs at around 3.5 cubes for each driver. I own both now and each brand has their advantages. I have 8 of the Dayton drivers and 4 of the SIs so far. I'm going to build some medium sized ported boxes for the SIs probably within the next few months. Right now I'm focused on learning the ropes of the crossover design and modeling process.

The SI drivers are out of stock currently for the next 3-4 months last I checked. The normal selling price of the SI's is within 10.00 of the daytons so price is a wash unless you get in on the preorder for the SI's right now.

SIs:
Larger surround and excursion, few db more output
Very inexpensive around 195 shipped at the pre order price. Regular price around 230-240
Appear to have strong customer support
Currently a 3-4 month wait time

Daytons
Larger voicecoil and power handling
Aluminum cone looks really nice
Slightly less output below 25hz or so
Pe legendary customer service, usually ample stock
250 shipped each and 233 shipped in orders of 4+

Hope this helps.

If I were you I would also explore some tapped horned designs like Ricci's Gallehorn design - if you've got the room it doesn't get any better than these. biggrin.gif

EDIT - If you're willing to make the drive, I think MK's subs are a HECK of a deal. I think he sold the amp, but you can easily order another. It's going to be hard to come close to the performance for the very low prices he's offering.
Edited by Gorilla83 - 2/19/13 at 7:45am
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post #84 of 123
2/19/13 at 7:40am
Here are 4 13AV2's in 4 sonosubs. I would say awesome for $600.

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post #85 of 123
2/19/13 at 8:05am
Thread Starter 
Okay so i was thinking i think i want to do a ported sub diy i think i need to just go in and do it. So i think home depot will make the cuts for me with mdf so how hard is it for a ported sub?! would someone tell me the exact cuts and i can take it to home depot make them make the cuts and put it together at home. But i dont know about port length and stuff maybe do 2 ported subs i dont care how big they are.
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post #86 of 123
2/19/13 at 8:07am
Thread Starter 
And to get off topic real quick full compass has 2 jbl 8340 used for 500. Should i make the purchase?! For surrounds.
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post #87 of 123
2/19/13 at 8:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

A couple thoughts:

If you're wanting to build something, the daytons and SIs both are good options. I've listened to both in my room in the same boxes and I did not notice a difference in output. I thought the daytons had a deeper tone and a slightly cleaner sound in my boxes - although they may have been a bit too small for the SIs at around 3.5 cubes for each driver. I own both now and each brand has their advantages. I have 8 of the Dayton drivers and 4 of the SIs so far. I'm going to build some medium sized ported boxes for the SIs probably within the next few months. Right now I'm focused on learning the ropes of the crossover design and modeling process.

The SI drivers are out of stock currently for the next 3-4 months last I checked. The normal selling price of the SI's is within 10.00 of the daytons so price is a wash unless you get in on the preorder for the SI's right now.

SIs:
Larger surround and excursion, few db more output
Very inexpensive around 195 shipped at the pre order price. Regular price around 230-240
Appear to have strong customer support
Currently a 3-4 month wait time

Daytons
Larger voicecoil and power handling
Aluminum cone looks really nice
Slightly less output below 25hz or so
Pe legendary customer service, usually ample stock
250 shipped each and 233 shipped in orders of 4+

Hope this helps.

If I were you I would also explore some tapped horned designs like Ricci's Gallehorn design - if you've got the room it doesn't get any better than these. biggrin.gif

EDIT - If you're willing to make the drive, I think MK's subs are a HECK of a deal. I think he sold the amp, but you can easily order another. It's going to be hard to come close to the performance for the very low prices he's offering.
gorilla thanks i wish i can do tapped horns i dont have a clue where to start with that. I wish we all can get together and come up with something and build it and we can learn from each other. Im not a fan of sealed subs i feel i need so many of them to get the output i want. But they will be easier to build!
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post #88 of 123
2/19/13 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Okay so i was thinking i think i want to do a ported sub diy i think i need to just go in and do it. So i think home depot will make the cuts for me with mdf so how hard is it for a ported sub?! would someone tell me the exact cuts and i can take it to home depot make them make the cuts and put it together at home. But i dont know about port length and stuff maybe do 2 ported subs i dont care how big they are.

You can use something like MK's model above which is going to be based on a specific volume and port size/length. You can use the dimensions that fit your room best and decide on the cuts from there. Cutlist is a good program to help with the cuts. BTW the sonotubes are a LOT easier and faster to construct if you want to go that route.
Edited by Gorilla83 - 2/19/13 at 8:23am
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post #89 of 123
2/19/13 at 8:27am
Here are the Dayton vs SI vs the eD(dual sub)



The Dayton cost $250 shipped and you have to build the box and stuff.

The SI is out of stock but can get this for $200 or more and then build a box.

The eD is $300 built and ready to go, just paint. Why do you think I made the price what they are, to be a better bang for buck than even the SI! Normally the SI would be the bang for buck champ. It will cost you at least $350 to buy the parts for the SI or Dayton and then you need to put it together. If you want ported you could take your eD drivers out and make a sonosub for really cheap for them. I have modeled them and they look really good(see above) with a 13.4 hz tune. 211 L sonosub with a 5 inch 36 inch port. It will be 6 feet tall and 16 inches in diameter. You are basically making a SVS PC ultra but deeper naturally. It won't cost you much and then maybe home depot could cut endcaps for you.
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post #90 of 123
2/19/13 at 8:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

You can use something like MK's model above which is going to be based on a specific volume and port size/length. You can use the dimensions that fit your room best and decide on the cuts from there. Cutlist is a good program to help with the cuts. BTW the sonotubes are a LOT easier and faster to construct if you want to go that route.
How do the sono tubes work and where can i get them? U just cut the top out and put jn the sub?
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