or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › I would really really use some of you experts's advice here.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

I would really really use some of you experts's advice here.

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Hello AVS world,

thank you all for making this forum a GREAT source of information!

this is my first home theater system and i have been reading a lot in the past month to get familiar with terms, specs and best home theater practices.

System: mainly for music purposes but also to watch movies
Budget: 4.000+€

I like

Receiver: Marantz SR700 (but i believe the SR6006 will do too just fine)

and

Speakers: Kef LS50

and

Sub: Kef R400b

my problem is i planned my Tv room without allowing enough space for speakers. I am redecorating my apartment so new ideas are very welcome.

My questions:

a.) any fails in this receiver+speakers+sub setup?

b.) Sub behind the couch within a wall opening (the size of the sub itself), is it a really bad idea or will produce good bass for both movies and music?

c.) are the speakers in a strange position respect to the viewer for movies? I really do not know where else i could put them...





Thank you to any of you willing to help!

D.
post #2 of 22
How are you going to run speaker wire in the apartment? You can't go into rafters or into walls? You might want to consider an amazing sound bar with a wireless sub? No where near ideal but it would be better than just the tv.

You also only show 2 speakers. Are these your "fronts"? either way you won't get 5.1 it's only 2.1 If that's the case the sound bar could compete with that and won't be in the middle of the room.

If you want a real surround you need atleast 5.1. You can put two towers right next to your tv in the walkways, center underneath and surrounds you can put small satellites ceiling mounted if you're allowed to do so in your apartment building or where you have them located in your diagram.
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Hei thank you for your fast reply VD,

- no problem for the wires as the apartment is currently under complete renovation. we can wire the house as we want.

- the 2 speakers would be the front ones (even if they are actually placed on the side of the couch). i like surround but i am more interested in music afterall and i was thinking that 2 good hi-fi speakers would produce better sound for music than a soundbar. however i could also set up a 5.1 system using inwall speakers for the REAR. sooo many options!! eek.gif

- i like your solution but i m really trying to avoid having tower speakers in the walkway next to the tv as the passage is not too big.

thank you for your opinion!
post #4 of 22
That seems like it would be extremely distracting to watch tv/movies in a configuration like that. The dialogue isn't going to be anywhere near the screen, and pans are going to have a weird stereo effect. I think that, at minimum, you'd need to find room to put a centre with the tv, but you're still going to have most of your seating positions basically directly next to one of the mains. That'll be very awkward, even listening to music or in a party situation.

If I were in that space, I'd probably be trying to find some good compact bookshelf speakers to put beside the tv on the ledge. Otherwise, if you really want floorstanders, they're going to basically have to go right in the middle of the room, beside the tv. Only a matter of time before they get knocked over in such a high-traffic area.
post #5 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidians View Post

That seems like it would be extremely distracting to watch tv/movies in a configuration like that. The dialogue isn't going to be anywhere near the screen, and pans are going to have a weird stereo effect.
The pans wouldn't be all that bad, but without a center channel the dialog will be very bad. As for music, having the speakers spread that far apart will wreak havoc with imaging. I don't see why the TV can't be flanked with decent bookshelves.
post #6 of 22
I would agree that is you cannot put the speakers flanking the TV and facing the viewers, you would be better off with a sound bar. But that will have to be in front of/above/below the TV and facing the viewers...
post #7 of 22
I would look in to ceiling speakers, not ideal, but this isn't an ideal layout.
post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidians View Post

That seems like it would be extremely distracting to watch tv/movies in a configuration like that. The dialogue isn't going to be anywhere near the screen, and pans are going to have a weird stereo effect. I think that, at minimum, you'd need to find room to put a centre with the tv,


thank you all for your efforts!.

Could i maybe just have a soundbar for the center channel and the SUB connected to it for movies and when listening to music i will switch off the sounbar and use just speakers and SUB. possible?
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I don't see why the TV can't be flanked with decent bookshelves.

Hello there. it would be very difficult to find space for bookshelves as on the side of the tv as you can see from the above-map there is litterally no space on the left hand side of the tv (looking from the couch), while i do have space on the other side.
i can have a center channel (or soundbar) below the tv but the speakers are the main problem to fit.

i was thinking another solution could be to have them in 2 different openings (i can make them as big as i need) above the TV within the stone column but then would they not be too close to each other and sound will be affected?
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmochi View Post

thank you all for your efforts!.

Could i maybe just have a soundbar for the center channel and the SUB connected to it for movies and when listening to music i will switch off the sounbar and use just speakers and SUB. possible?

A soundbar would usually be a left-centre-right combination, rather than just a centre. Depending on the receiver, you should be able to set up the mains as "zone 2" and then just use that as your music output, although that might get tricky with trying to share the sub.

If you do have control over the design of that whole centre column, then I'd probably be looking to do in-wall speakers there. Putting bookshelves deep in a cutout will tend to do weird things with reflections.

I mean, with a layout like that, the sound's going to be affected no matter what you do. You're well into compromise territory there already. So it really depends on what your priorities are in terms of aesthetics. If you really only care about music, and you want it throughout the room, I'd probably look at doing in-ceilings and just getting a powered soundbar to go with the tv. That'd be the cleanest visual look. There's no way you're going to be able to do a proper 2-channel setup with so little space and everything at weird angles there.

One option to consider might be looking at an articulating mount for the tv, so that it could be pulled out into the room a bit, which might give you a little more space to flank it with bookshelves. I dunno, it really depends on the measurements of the tv and that little shelf.
post #11 of 22
post #12 of 22
Check out the Artison Portrait speakers.

http://www.artisonusa.com/loudspeakers/lcr-dm-series/portrait/

They'll look like part of the TV with custom grills and they sound very good. And since the room is under construction, I'd go with a quality in-wall sub--or better yet dual in-wall subs. Triad has very good in-walls. Velodyne looks good. And for more money, the Artison in wall sub looks good.

Dan
post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
excellent tips. Thank you so much!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidians View Post

If you do have control over the design of that whole centre column, then I'd probably be looking to do in-wall speakers there. Putting bookshelves deep in a cutout will tend to do weird things with reflections.

mmm i don t know about reflections. I ve read somewhere that bookshelves speakers should have some room to breathe but does it mean that the sound will come out horrible if inserted in cutouts or is it just not recommended?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidians View Post

I mean, with a layout like that, the sound's going to be affected no matter what you do. You're well into compromise territory there already. So it really depends on what your priorities are in terms of aesthetics. If you really only care about music, and you want it throughout the room, I'd probably look at doing in-ceilings and just getting a powered soundbar to go with the tv. That'd be the cleanest visual look. There's no way you're going to be able to do a proper 2-channel setup with so little space and everything at weird angles there.

I know!!! those weird angles are driving me crazy!

mad.gif
post #14 of 22
In regards to the cutout in the wall and inserting a bookshelf keep in mind not only "reflections" but also porting of your speaker. If it's rear ported it will not sound right at all....

If you do a search on this site or online for mounting bookshelves inside a cutout you'll find plenty of reasons why you don't want to do this. An in-wall speaker is specificaly designed for that purpose, in-wall. A bookshelf is designed like it said to be a bookshelf, on a shelf with air around it (or on a stand but either way with air around it). Floor standing speakers, again same thing etc....
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmochi View Post

I ve read somewhere that bookshelves speakers should have some room to breathe but does it mean that the sound will come out horrible if inserted in cutouts or is it just not recommended?
The issue is diffraction. When placed in front of a wall the low frequencies diffract around the cab, reflecting off the rear wall. If the distance from the baffle to the wall is 1/4 wavelength the reflection will meet the original wave 180 degrees out of phase and there will result a response dip, as much as 24dB deep. In-wall/flush mounting eliminates this Allison Effect. Back when bookshelf speakers were actually placed on bookshelves one would place, off all things, books around the speakers, which would create a flush-mount. Cut outs are perfectly OK so long as they're sized to fit the speaker with minimal gap, say an inch or so.
post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmochi View Post

excellent tips. Thank you so much!
mmm i don t know about reflections. I ve read somewhere that bookshelves speakers should have some room to breathe but does it mean that the sound will come out horrible if inserted in cutouts or is it just not recommended?
I know!!! those weird angles are driving me crazy!

mad.gif

The deeper into a cutout and the less space around the speaker, the worse it's going to sound. Specifically, it'll start sounding like the sound's coming through a tunnel, which it essentially is. Certain frequencies will be harshly emphasised, while others will be muted. It might get slightly echo-y. You'd have to set them pretty deep in there for it to sound "horrible", though. Ideally, if you could size the cutouts to exactly the speakers size, and push them right to the front of the cabinet, maybe even overhanging a little bit, it won't sound too bad at all. As you say, it's just not recommended.

Personally, if I were you, I'd be looking at doing this:


Get the 3 fronts into the "shelf" area by rotating the tv to give it space on both sides. Get a short centre, maybe raise the tv up a bit if necessary. I'd probably do an articulating mount there, really. Get the speakers as wide on the shelf as possible (safely) so that they don't block the tv. Then I'd do 3x in-ceilings for the surround channels, and just to fill out sound in the space for when I'm doing "party-mode" music rather than serious 2-channel listening.

For the sub, although it's "omni-directional", I still find it can be distractingly localizable if it's not in the generally "front" direction. It's just a weird effect when all the rumble is coming from behind you. I'd probably try to do dual in-wall subs on the two faces of the console there. Maybe even on the top, to leave room for the receiver below.
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Obsidians you are the best!

thank you for taking your time to help me out!

your suggestions put me definitely in the right direction.

you are invited to watch a movie whenever you pass through rome!
post #18 of 22
No problem, glad I could help! Make sure to post pics when you're done, and PM me so that I notice! smile.gif
post #19 of 22
Personally, I would look at a Triad Micro LCR 3.0 used with a speaker mount for the swing arm you are going to use. Maybe some Bronze Sealed Rounds for the surrounds. And an Inroom Bronze sub to complete your surround system. The great thing about the Triad is that they can make the width of the soundbar to match your tv and paint any of the speakers to match.

But then again, they are American with you being in Rome, I don't know how that would work. You can contact Custom Solutions Int. as they are the Triad dist for Italy.
post #20 of 22
We like James Loudspeaker. Check them out.

http://jamesloudspeaker.com/index.cfm?page=dealers&c=13
post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Personally, I would look at a Triad Micro LCR 3.0 used with a speaker mount for the swing arm you are going to use. Maybe some Bronze Sealed Rounds for the surrounds. And an Inroom Bronze sub to complete your surround system. The great thing about the Triad is that they can make the width of the soundbar to match your tv and paint any of the speakers to match.

But then again, they are American with you being in Rome, I don't know how that would work. You can contact Custom Solutions Int. as they are the Triad dist for Italy.


thank you for the links provided. i did not know it was possible to have a soundbar customized in terms of width. hopefully they also sound good...
cool.gif

will let you know what i find out.

THANK YOU ALL SO FAR!
post #22 of 22
James can make anything to fit your needs. I attached a link of some custom items.

http://www.jamesloudspeaker.com/index.cfm?page=by_series&id=25
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › I would really really use some of you experts's advice here.