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Fronts to go with SubMersive

post #1 of 18
2/12/13 at 1:52pm
Thread Starter 
So I think my friend is going to go with Seaton SubMersive sub and now he's looking for tower mains to go with them. I mentioned he could go bookshelf, but I think he's set on towers. We initially started looking at Axiom M80's, but they're ported and it's my understanding you don't want to mix ported and sealed within the same frequency range. He wants reference level sound. He was initially looking at Martin Logan Motion 40's, but is open to something else and ID companies are welcome.

Room is 18 x 20, but open to kitchen area.
Budget is $1500 a pair, but less works. Might stretch it, but would prefer not to.
Seating area is about 12 to 15' from the main wall.


Thanks

Peter
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post #2 of 18
2/12/13 at 3:02pm
Many choices abound in this person's price range............here are only a few...

Arx A5's at $750/pair

Klipsch RF 82II at $1000/pair

B&W 684's at $1100/pair

NHT Absolute Towers at $1100/pair

HTD Level Three Towers ( can't get on their website from WORK computer mad.gif so price unknown)

Monitor Audio Silver Towers RX-6 at $1200-1400/pair

Gallo Classico CL-3's at $1600/pair ( some people love these)

Ascend Sierra-1 towers without the RAAL tweeter might be ~$1500/pair

Others will chime in with their suggestions...........
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post #3 of 18
3/18/13 at 1:15pm
I am getting a Seaton Submersive HP within the next few weeks and am planningon paiting it with Martin Logan Motion 40 and a martin Logan Motion 30 Center. I have a pair of Infinity and a pair of Motion 4 surrounds.

I'm hoping this is a good combo?
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post #4 of 18
3/18/13 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor12 View Post

I am getting a Seaton Submersive HP within the next few weeks and am planningon paiting it with Martin Logan Motion 40 and a martin Logan Motion 30 Center. I have a pair of Infinity and a pair of Motion 4 surrounds.

I'm hoping this is a good combo?

That system will kick ass all over the place biggrin.gif
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post #5 of 18
3/18/13 at 7:38pm
Ported and sealed don't go well when you are looking at the FR below the tuning point of the ported speaker as the phase response begins to go all over the place. This is more of an issue when mixing subs without a HPF on the lowest frequencies. Mixing ported speakers with sealed subs is fine as you will be crossing over well above the likely tuning point of a speaker, and destructive interaction due to phase response is mitigated.

If this was an issue, then regardless of the sub type, no one would want to run bandpass speakers with a subwoofer as they would all have overlapping FR around the crossover, which would result in issues. Yet, many (most these days?) speakers are ported.

In other words, don't limit your speaker search to sealed speakers only just because you are using a sealed sub.
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post #6 of 18
3/19/13 at 5:22am
Thanks Snowmanick!

However, just for clarification- I don't believe that either the Submersive or the Motion 40's are ported? Aren't they all sealed?
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post #7 of 18
3/19/13 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor12 View Post

I am getting a Seaton Submersive HP within the next few weeks and am planningon paiting it with Martin Logan Motion 40 and a martin Logan Motion 30 Center. I have a pair of Infinity and a pair of Motion 4 surrounds.

I'm hoping this is a good combo?
Just make sure your AVR is 4 ohm stable!
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post #8 of 18
3/19/13 at 5:45am
I own a Yamaha Aventage RX-A3020. I believe it is rated/switchable for both 4 ohms and 8 ohms.

Thx,
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post #9 of 18
3/19/13 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor12 View Post

Thanks Snowmanick!

However, just for clarification- I don't believe that either the Submersive or the Motion 40's are ported? Aren't they all sealed?

The Motion 40's are ported, the SubM is sealed.
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post #10 of 18
3/19/13 at 12:34pm
Thanks again Snowmanick! I stand corrected- the Motion 40's ARE ported! Hopefully it will not be too difficult to adjust the crossover below the tuning point and send the majority of the bass to my Seaton SubM?
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post #11 of 18
3/19/13 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor12 View Post

Thanks again Snowmanick! I stand corrected- the Motion 40's ARE ported! Hopefully it will not be too difficult to adjust the crossover below the tuning point and send the majority of the bass to my Seaton SubM?

Its not hard at all, its just selecting the crossover in your AVR. Also, you want to crossover above the ML's tuning point, not below.

Enjoy your new setup, the SubM is by all accounts a killer sub, it should serve you very well.
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post #12 of 18
3/19/13 at 1:17pm
Now I'm really going to sound ignorant- how do I know if my receiver is 4 ohm stable?

I own Yamaha's top of the line RX-A3020 which is rated for 8 ohms.....?
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post #13 of 18
3/19/13 at 1:18pm
THat is a pretty big room and the man wants reference level sound, are the Martin Logans able to produce high enough spls?
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post #14 of 18
3/19/13 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor12 View Post

Now I'm really going to sound ignorant- how do I know if my receiver is 4 ohm stable?

I own Yamaha's top of the line RX-A3020 which is rated for 8 ohms.....?
You're good. It's in the specs. It even has power specs for all the way down to 2 ohms! That really surprised me.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a3020_black_u/#tag609
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post #15 of 18
3/19/13 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

THat is a pretty big room and the man wants reference level sound, are the Martin Logans able to produce high enough spls?

Not if you are looking for clean reference levels and the listening distance is greater than 8'. The Martin Logan is 89 db sensitivity at 1 meter. At 2 meters deduct 6db. Subtract 3db for headroom and at least 3db for power compression. That puts the starting point at 77db. That is 28db to get to clean reference level. That is over 9 doublings of power. That is 512 watts. First, no AVR is going to get you that power and second, the speaker can't handle that kind of power.
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post #16 of 18
3/19/13 at 7:41pm
Yes that is true but don't forget about room gain. He'll lose some but not all of that output.
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post #17 of 18
3/20/13 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Yes that is true but don't forget about room gain. He'll lose some but not all of that output.

It depends on the room. In my treated room, I do lose 6db for doubling of the distance. Also gain from reflections is not what you are looking for. I was also conservative in my figures. I am sure the loss due to power compression is higher than 3db. None of the SPL calculators take that or headroom into consideration. For these reasons, it is an eye opening experience to hear a system that can truly play clean reference levels. People would find, what they were told (loud and harsh) is not the case. It is a pretty safe statement to say, the ML 40 speakers used with more than 8' listening distance and powered by an AVR is not going to get you clean reference level sound.
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post #18 of 18
3/20/13 at 11:38am
You're right, that will require a lot of power. But his AVR is definitely no slouch. 165W @ 8 ohms 2 channel with up to 295W dynamic @ 4 Ohms. Not too shabby. He's got quite a bit of juice on tap but I agree that he needs much more sensitive speakers if he's going to get anywhere near reference at the LP.
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