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A first look at NZFS and replacing unRAID with NZFS’s Transparent RAID (tRAID) - Page 12

post #331 of 353
3/3/13 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I value the best bang for the buck as well. I think where we diverge is calling a product "bad" if it is $10 less than something that's a better bang for the buck.

Its not necessarily "bad" --- just not as good of a value.

I think the divergence between you two is in the value of that $10. To some, it is a good bit of money, to others it is a pittance.
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post #332 of 353
3/3/13 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I think the divergence between you two is in the value of that $10. To some, it is a good bit of money, to others it is a pittance.

The other problem (I see this often) is using this theory for every single component.

$10 per hard drive, $30 for a better CPU, $30 for a better case, $20 for a better SSD, $20 for a better PSU, etc etc etc and it adds up and adds up quickly.

So the value of that difference when multiplied over the entire build quickly adds up.

Again, it depends on the user, their budget, and their goals of their HTPC. I now have a lot of experience in having these discussions with people.
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post #333 of 353
3/3/13 at 10:34am
Your right ^

But the point he makes is totally valid. Everyone has a different value system. I saw a guy using an i7 CPU even though it was extreme overkill just because it's cheap relative to his value system, yet I see people struggle to afford an SSD or anything above a celeron too/

I don't think a product that is $10 more is "bad" I just think it's a bad value if it's not as good as the cheaper alternative. My value system says that the higher performance should cost more. If something is lower performance and costs more then it is "bad" to me. biggrin.gif
I understand when a better product costs more, and why it costs more- But I never understand when a product costs more and is lower performance. That never makes sense to me. And it totally gets under my skin when someone uses the bully tactic of trying to pretend it's more reliable or somehow a better choice because of some impossible to prove or predict aspect like reliability. I'm always calling BS on that. If a product costs less, and performs more it's the right choice for me if it's a quality product and I have a reasonable expectation of reliability and warranty.

My way might not be right for everyone, but it is right for me.
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post #334 of 353
3/3/13 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You guys are missing the point if a media server. It's just media. Not life or death. Simplicity and stability and low cost are paramount over extreme performance or support.

His stated goal was to gain unRAID users to help pay for taking on the enterprise. UnRAID users are typically media server users, but enterprise is not. I think he could have some success leaching away some users of unRAID... but enterprise is a whole different animal.
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post #335 of 353
3/3/13 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

The other problem (I see this often) is using this theory for every single component.

$10 per hard drive, $30 for a better CPU, $30 for a better case, $20 for a better SSD, $20 for a better PSU, etc etc etc and it adds up and adds up quickly.

So the value of that difference when multiplied over the entire build quickly adds up.

Again, it depends on the user, their budget, and their goals of their HTPC. I now have a lot of experience in having these discussions with people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Your right ^

But the point he makes is totally valid. Everyone has a different value system. I saw a guy using an i7 CPU even though it was extreme overkill just because it's cheap relative to his value system, yet I see people struggle to afford an SSD or anything above a celeron too/

I don't think a product that is $10 more is "bad" I just think it's a bad value if it's not as good as the cheaper alternative. My value system says that the higher performance should cost more. If something is lower performance and costs more then it is "bad" to me. biggrin.gif
I understand when a better product costs more, and why it costs more- But I never understand when a product costs more and is lower performance. That never makes sense to me. And it totally gets under my skin when someone uses the bully tactic of trying to pretend it's more reliable or somehow a better choice because of some impossible to prove or predict aspect like reliability. I'm always calling BS on that. If a product costs less, and performs more it's the right choice for me if it's a quality product and I have a reasonable expectation of reliability and warranty.

My way might not be right for everyone, but it is right for me.

For full disclosure, I am still using an Intel e7200 CPU for my HTPC and I only have SATA 2 ports. I WANT to upgrade it to something better - but cannot justify it yet when what I have does everything I want. I can see both sides to the issue (spending an extra $200 on the total system is insignificant to me - but others would not want to spend $200 for the system in total). I just hope the embedded graphics get so good I will want to through the pain of upgrading just to remove another card from my system (the ATI card).
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post #336 of 353
3/3/13 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryW View Post

If it doesn't zero out the sectors that the drive has internally de-allocated and replaced with spares due to failures, it isn't any more secure than just filling the disk with zeroes.

Right... That's sort of my point. The Secure Erase command is supposed to wipe areas the OS can't get to, including internaly de-allocated bad blocks, HPAs and DCOs.

And, if you're on a self-encrypting drive, secure erase can go much faster than a full block erase of the drive.
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post #337 of 353
3/5/13 at 12:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

HIPPA, PCI, DOD, you name it.... there's a compliance acronym for practically any industry. This is actually a good thing to see in a product.
...
I will look into compliance certification much much later. For now, it is just something in the toolbox.
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post #338 of 353
3/5/13 at 4:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

I will look into compliance certification much much later. For now, it is just something in the toolbox.

I don't mean to be annoying, but I have a personal interest in media sanitization. It's tangentially related to some work I do. Is your sanitization method just overwriting with zeros? Are you calling ATA secure erase?

By the way, I don't know of any certification for these kinds of tools. My guess is that you're not particularly interested in implementing the sanitization methods in the spec, which usually involves a wiping process, followed by a verification process. Organizations, as I understand it, typically just look for documentation that that's what's going on in the tool. That sort of thing is almost certainly overkill for your customers.
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post #339 of 353
3/6/13 at 6:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

I don't mean to be annoying, but I have a personal interest in media sanitization. It's tangentially related to some work I do. Is your sanitization method just overwriting with zeros? Are you calling ATA secure erase?

By the way, I don't know of any certification for these kinds of tools. My guess is that you're not particularly interested in implementing the sanitization methods in the spec, which usually involves a wiping process, followed by a verification process. Organizations, as I understand it, typically just look for documentation that that's what's going on in the tool. That sort of thing is almost certainly overkill for your customers.
I understand and appreciate the interest, however, I clearly cannot divulge anything until the product is released.
Obviously, just writing zero would make this a joke. Give me some credit. wink.gif
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post #340 of 353
3/8/13 at 9:17am
Thread Starter 
The "vaporware" just keeps on getting better: http://www.openegg.org/2013/03/08/a-pretty-cool-nzfs-raid-feature-why-run-in-degraded-mode/
smile.gif
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post #341 of 353
3/8/13 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

The "vaporware" just keeps on getting better: http://www.openegg.org/2013/03/08/a-pretty-cool-nzfs-raid-feature-why-run-in-degraded-mode/
smile.gif

Interesting.
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post #342 of 353
3/8/13 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

The "vaporware" just keeps on getting better: http://www.openegg.org/2013/03/08/a-pretty-cool-nzfs-raid-feature-why-run-in-degraded-mode/
smile.gif

Might want to proof read the first sentence.
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post #343 of 353
3/8/13 at 7:13pm
When data is being written to the parity drive, won't the pool receive some performance hit?
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post #344 of 353
3/9/13 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

When data is being written to the parity drive, won't the pool receive some performance hit?

But of course.
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post #345 of 353
4/7/13 at 8:55am
Looks like the private beta testing is currently underway for NZFS...
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post #346 of 353
4/7/13 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Looks like the private beta testing is currently underway for NZFS...

Where did you get that info?
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post #347 of 353
4/7/13 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Where did you get that info?
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039773828&postcount=67

That makes it sounds like it's beyond beta testing into RC territory, even. At least the tRaid feature, anyway - which is most interesting for media storage purposes.
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post #348 of 353
4/7/13 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Looks like the private beta testing is currently underway for NZFS...

Where did you get that info?

Little birdie told me.... wink.gif
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post #349 of 353
4/23/13 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I have a few troubled green drives I'd like to do this too. I don't really trust them in my array just yet.

What's a good solution ?

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/toolsofthetrade/tp/tophddiag.htm

Anyone else used this ?
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post #350 of 353
4/23/13 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Anyone else used this ?

Tools from manufacturers are mainly to reduce warranty claims and shouldn't be trusted for testing hard drives. Try using the badblocks command of linux.
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post #351 of 353
4/23/13 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NNate View Post

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039773828&postcount=67

That makes it sounds like it's beyond beta testing into RC territory, even. At least the tRaid feature, anyway - which is most interesting for media storage purposes.

A few weeks have gone by since April 6...
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post #352 of 353
4/23/13 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

A few weeks have gone by since April 6...
Yeah, true story. Haven't heard anything
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post #353 of 353
5/6/13 at 6:33am
It's basically done I believe
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