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AE Group buy 2013! - Page 6

post #151 of 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_E_Janowitz View Post

Honestly at this point I had no intent to offer the black phase plugs. The pictures were posted as more of a feeler to see what people were interested in. I had a sample run done of 20pcs and provided those to Chop as part of the return for organizing the group buy. I simply don't have the cash flow available to stock 6 different size phase plugs in 2 different finishes in the required minimum quantities. Somewhere down the road it may be possible but at this time I have no guarantees for when that could be.

John

Thanks for the information John. I will be happy with the OE plugs for sure. I will keep my eye out for this in the future if it ever does become an option.

Chris

Edit:

John, if you do decide to make these available, I would be down to be part of the first group of orders for the black phase plugs. If you do a poll, please post the link here so we can all participate.

Chris
Edited by filtor1 - 3/19/13 at 10:58am
post #152 of 363
Where's the emoticon to slap John upside the head. rolleyes.gif

For a cosmetic option, don't even show any unless you can directly answer what it will cost and how long it might take. With so many sizes that's likely to take a while to phase in for all models. Likely 6-12 months.

My take: Make them a premium option until the current stock of silver is mostly gone in all sizes and black plugs are available now or soon in all sizes. From what I recall, you would need to strip/sand/machine off the clear finish before re-anodyzing black. Hard to say if it's really worth the shipping costs as I couldn't see him giving back more than 1/2 the cost of new ones.
post #153 of 363
I don't understand why the phase plugs are machined to spec, but then have to be hand-sanded by AE before going off to get anodized. Or why it takes 4-6 weeks for finishing.
post #154 of 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

I don't understand why the phase plugs are machined to spec, but then have to be hand-sanded by AE before going off to get anodized. Or why it takes 4-6 weeks for finishing.

It needs to be sanded because many of you would be picky if there were small scratches/scuffs from handling. As for lead time, any business who does this takes some time to turn jobs through. Sometimes that's a week, sometimes its 4 weeks. Add in lead time to order, receive and machine the plugs. Then receive them to AE, finish sand the lot, deliver them to the anodizer, and get them back to AE. Of course John has to put out money to order all of those new phase plugs, which isn't there if it's already been put into securing clear aluminum plugs. When I last chatted with John about my own orders it sounded like there may be plugs for 1 or 2 driver sizes coming in which could be made black in a shorter time frame, but getting them made for most sizes will likely take 4-6 weeks after funds are available for each.

I would take this moment to remind those ordering that John still isn't really charging enough to comfortably maintain the wide variety of options available for each model.
post #155 of 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Where's the emoticon to slap John upside the head. rolleyes.gif

For a cosmetic option, don't even show any unless you can directly answer what it will cost and how long it might take. With so many sizes that's likely to take a while to phase in for all models. Likely 6-12 months.

QFT!

I mean no disrespect John. but you can't post this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_E_Janowitz View Post

The first of the woofers are being packaged up tomorrow and the old group buy orders are now finished with a few awaiting packaging and final payment. Also, I posted a picture of the custom black phase plugs done for Chop on his woofers. I have had a lot of people asking if they could switch to the black phase plugs. Currently it will be 4-6 weeks before I can get more phase plugs in and get them processed through the anodizing facility. As a result I am not including the option for black phase plugs at this time.

less than 2 days ago and then follow with this comment yesterday:
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_E_Janowitz View Post

Honestly at this point I had no intent to offer the black phase plugs. The pictures were posted as more of a feeler to see what people were interested in. I had a sample run done of 20pcs and provided those to Chop as part of the return for organizing the group buy. I simply don't have the cash flow available to stock 6 different size phase plugs in 2 different finishes in the required minimum quantities. Somewhere down the road it may be possible but at this time I have no guarantees for when that could be.

Your first comment 2 days ago suuuure looks like black is an option, but it would take 4-6 weeks wait time until more black plugs could roll through process of machining, sanding, anodizing, and finishing... thus you didn't want to hold up group buy orders and weren't going to give folks the choice on the group buy this time.... that's a very different response than yesterday where you are saying it was just a feeler poll to see if folks would be interested.

It might be good to put a poll or separate thread on your forum to gauge the interest and see how many folks would want black over clear aluminum to be the standard... you get to run your business however you want no matter how many folks want to armchair manage it for you. But listening to customers and what the majority of them want usually doesn't have bad implications in my experience..... I understand the apprehension and the upfront operating capital cost of having even more options available to customers. I begged, pleaded, coerced, provided pre-orders, etc. to Butler Audio for several years before he finally relented and made his amplifiers in black chassis instead of the standard silver color units. Since he introduced the black chassis, I haven't sold a single silver unit in like 8+ years. Everyone wants the black anodized finish. I have a feeling you'll see similar situation with black versus clear aluminum plugs.

I'm with Mark on this one... offer some path to get to the black, either as a premium option for now or some means of getting to black over time via trade in or ability to buy them outright via pre-order or whatever. The logical side of my brain can't stop the visceral aesthetic reactions I'm having to black versus clear aluminum. I'm not sure I want the woofers anymore if I have to get them in clear aluminum... that's how much I want the black and how much better I think they look...

Heck, start a kickstarter project to increase your operating capital for now to allow buying black plugs sooner rather than later with the reward for contributors being the option to have their woofers with black or some incentive to get existing woofers "upgraded" to have black plugs. They raised $3.5M in a couple days for a Veronica Mars movie... surely a few bucks could be raised to get this option available to customers...
post #156 of 363
Thanks, Mark. Don't want to clog the thread so I'll just PM.
post #157 of 363
John, I'm still waiting on a bunch of TD15 phase plugs...10 to be exact...if you get around to shipping these, black would be awesome.
post #158 of 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

I don't understand why the phase plugs are machined to spec, but then have to be hand-sanded by AE before going off to get anodized. Or why it takes 4-6 weeks for finishing.

Phase plugs are ordered from a local machine shop. They order the raw aluminum and schedule the parts for production. They then machine all the parts on the CNC lathe. The machining alone does not give a finished look. To get a nice "brushed" look we have to hand sand them here on our lathe. This removes all machining marks and ends up with a nice 220grit brushed look. Then we send them out to the anodizing facility, wait for them to anodize them and get them back to us. It all takes time.
post #159 of 363
Thread Starter 
Just a quick update to let folks know....I have been super pleased so far with the level of communication and accomidation I/we have recieved from John. I have gotten multiple emails and accomidations made, and will recommend/order again from AE for sure!
post #160 of 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Just a quick update to let folks know....I have been super pleased so far with the level of communication and accomidation I/we have recieved from John. I have gotten multiple emails and accomidations made, and will recommend/order again from AE for sure!

I wouldn't have spent close to $1,000 on drivers if I didn't feel the quality or service was there. I very much appreciate what you and John have put together here.
post #161 of 363
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

I wouldn't have spent close to $1,000 on drivers if I didn't feel the quality or service was there. I very much appreciate what you and John have put together here.

Absolutely....I felt the need to relay the message because this is the first time I have dealt with John or AE Speakers. I ordered 18 drivers without ever before knowing them, so it's been very nice to have regular communication, email, phone chats, etc.
post #162 of 363
I have not received any invoice etc. I am fine not in any hurry or complaining in any way, I just want to make sure my little order for (2) TD 15 M's didn't get lost in all of the madness!
post #163 of 363
btinindy, my impression is that as of yesterday or the day before the last few bits of the previous group buy were being wrapped up so I wouldn't worry just yet. Maybe ChopShop can confirm your order got passed on to John.

I was personally invoiced just 10 minutes ago for my paltry pair of TD12Xs, fwiw.

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
post #164 of 363
Thank you for the note! Like I say I am in no hurry as the Winter seems to continue to drag on here (Indiana) anyways. Looks like the BMS GB is back on track too, so that is good.

I just scored a CL find on a Festool track saw too so I am ready to start doing some building! I just need to get some SEOS 15's secured and I will be feeling pretty good about the supply side of the build.
post #165 of 363
Thread Starter 
You're in Btinidy, all set. John won't invoice you until yours are in the que and being built. Someone else I know got a shipping notice today for a pallet of TD15Ms biggrin.gif
post #166 of 363
Nice! Thank you! So glad that things worked out on the BMS front as well. I am more excited to watch your build than even building my own!
post #167 of 363
I got my invoice today. Problem is it's for one woofer and I wanted two. Do you think they would invoice them seperately?
post #168 of 363
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mvauhn View Post

I got my invoice today. Problem is it's for one woofer and I wanted two. Do you think they would invoice them seperately?

I have my order book and the order submitted to AE in my office. Pm me your name adn I will double check. It's very possible it's an oversight...many people changed their orders multiple times both with me and John. I will be happy to get John the correct info, or correct him if he already has it.
post #169 of 363
PM sent. Thanks for your help.
post #170 of 363
All right.... I started calling around to alloy facilities here in my local area to get quotes on what it would cost to anodize the phase plugs in black.

If John is willing to send me *RAW* aluminum phase plugs that have been sanded but not sent off for final clear coat finishing, etc. then I can get it done locally for a pretty reasonable charge. They have a minimum charge to do black anodizing and they'd do more than 20 pieces for under that minimum charge. Since that was more than the number of pieces I was expecting on my 2013 group buy order, I didn't question them on what it would cost for more than 20 pieces... but it seems like it would be negligible..... I'm willing to coordinate with others to get their plugs done in black anodize if folks want the choice..... of course it will mean needing to get the plugs in raw format as the best prices I got were for places that didn't do mechanical work, just the finish coatings... so if you have existing plugs, you'd have to figure out how to sand off the existing coating yourself if you wanted to take part... I'm already trying to see how I get that done on the brand new, still in the box plugs that were just delivered for the 2011 Group Buy TD15Ms that were shipped without plugs... I'm also going to get my still in the box TD15Hs done this way if I can...
post #171 of 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheaterdoc View Post

All right.... I started calling around to alloy facilities here in my local area to get quotes on what it would cost to anodize the phase plugs in black.

If John is willing to send me *RAW* aluminum phase plugs that have been sanded but not sent off for final clear coat finishing, etc. then I can get it done locally for a pretty reasonable charge. They have a minimum charge to do black anodizing and they'd do more than 20 pieces for under that minimum charge. Since that was more than the number of pieces I was expecting on my 2013 group buy order, I didn't question them on what it would cost for more than 20 pieces... but it seems like it would be negligible..... I'm willing to coordinate with others to get their plugs done in black anodize if folks want the choice..... of course it will mean needing to get the plugs in raw format as the best prices I got were for places that didn't do mechanical work, just the finish coatings... so if you have existing plugs, you'd have to figure out how to sand off the existing coating yourself if you wanted to take part... I'm already trying to see how I get that done on the brand new, still in the box plugs that were just delivered for the 2011 Group Buy TD15Ms that were shipped without plugs... I'm also going to get my still in the box TD15Hs done this way if I can...

The anodizing is the relatively easy part once you find a place that will handle the parts properly so things aren't scratched when they get back to you. Of course if you try to strip the originals and don't get all of the clear off, you're going to get some funny looking results that aren't the fault of the anodizer.

Hold onto your pantyhose for a short bit and see what John comes up with for options. This really only makes any sense for those who want to attempt re-finishing their original clear anodized plugs, as if John has raw plugs he could ship you, he can most likely get them anodized black by his sources. I don't see it making much sense for John to sell/ship unfinished phase plugs.
post #172 of 363
I still haven't been invoiced for my Group Buy 2011 phase plugs.confused.gif
For as I'm concerned, I'd prefer the black plugs but at this stage of the game I'd be happy with any plugs....even orange.tongue.gif
post #173 of 363
I have bounced this off Mark Seaton for some thoughts and I believe I have a solution that should work to satisfy most people. Having an up-charge for the black phase plugs is needed to expedite the purchase of more phase plugs to be black anodized. At this time I can offer the black phase plugs at $30 each for those who want to purchase them outright. Many have asked about purchasing them and using them for use as cabinet feet for example. For those who already have the clear phase plugs and wish to return them, we will credit back $15 upon the phase plugs returning in good condition. To make this a simple process, we will charge $30 each up front plus shipping. The new black phase plugs will be shipped out and upon arrival the clear anodized plugs can then be returned, being carefully packaged in the same manner. Upon the phase plugs arriving back in good condition we will refund a credit of $15 per phase plug back to you. The customer would be responsible for the shipping charge both ways.

Those who want to upgrade for orders that have not shipped yet can simply be billed the $15 up charge. We will hold the woofers here until the phase plugs are available to avoid the extra shipping costs and time to coordinate multiple shipments.

John
post #174 of 363
Thanks for working through this, John. Sorry if it's been an additional headache.

That said, you can expect an email from me asking for the upgraded plugs on my small, just-invoiced order. smile.gif
post #175 of 363
Excellent. Thanks for offering this. i think its a good solution.

Chop, add me for 4 black plugs.
post #176 of 363
John, I'm still waiting on phase plugs from the original GB in 2011. Do I have to pay the upcharge for black plugs?
post #177 of 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Chop, add me for 4 black plugs.

Hmm this raises a point - can someone address whether current group buy participants should be trying to coordinate through ChopShop (if he's even up for the job) on these phase plugs, or pursue them individually?
post #178 of 363
I'm interested in the black plugs too and since my plugs haven't been shipped, I'd be willing to pay the $15 upcharge and wait a little longer.smile.gif
post #179 of 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajacat View Post

I'm interested in the black plugs too and since my plugs haven't been shipped, I'd be willing to pay the $15 upcharge and wait a little longer.smile.gif

Screw you guys. I want these things shipped before they end up with the Unicorns (if you get my reference). biggrin.gif
post #180 of 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Screw you guys. I want these things shipped before they end up with the Unicorns (if you get my reference). biggrin.gif
I'm with you. The silver ones are just fine. I don't want any extra delays.
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