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A Comparison of Skyfall on iTunes, Vudu, and Blu-ray - Page 6

post #151 of 208
2/21/13 at 7:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Did you even bother reading ANY of my posts regarding the visible differences?

NO PIXEL PEEPING NECESSARY

Please please PLEASE come to my dedicated theatre. IF I'm not accurate at least 85% of the time, you can take ALL of my HT gears, and my other 3 sets of HT systems in my house !!!!

All ANYBODY need is THX recommended viewing distance and ANYBODY (maybe YOU are the exception) WiLL be ale to tell the difference especially from the macroblocking and colour banding.

It's a relative comparison and iTunes is doing great. I'm sure not everyone has as fantastic and revealing a home theater as you do, so chill out. Maybe it's you who is essentially "pixel peeping" all the time, thanks to your perfectionist approach. Digital downloads are good enough for many people and those people deserve to know which service has the best product. iTunes 720p is among my new favorite "convenience" formats for digital download or streaming, it looks really good. smile.gif
Edited by imagic - 2/22/13 at 1:29pm
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post #152 of 208
2/21/13 at 7:12pm
I ain't lookin' for "good enough." biggrin.gif
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post #153 of 208
2/21/13 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I ain't lookin' for "good enough." biggrin.gif

Exactly! I worked too hard and for too long to save up to build myself a purpose-built dedicated HT with the first row being THX viewing distance and 2nd row being SMPTE distance plus a dedicated room for all of my equipment to not get the best I can visually and audibly detect.
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post #154 of 208
2/21/13 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

It's a relative comparison and iTunes is doing great. I'm sure not everyone has as fantastic and revealing a home theater as you do, so chill out.

I'm onlu pissed off with a couple of poster who keep insisting the difference can only be seen using "pixel peeping". If I pixel peep, I won't even be content with blu-ray disc because too many of my 1,000+ discs were not even mastered and/or compressed properly. biggrin.gif
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post #155 of 208
2/21/13 at 8:48pm
It sure seems to me that AVS is trying to push the streaming agenda. Discs are dead...: bs. Discs are still the king of the revenue stream for the home video
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post #156 of 208
2/21/13 at 8:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

It sure seems to me that AVS is trying to push the streaming agenda. Discs are dead...: bs. Discs are still the king of the revenue stream for the home video

Only some people on AVS are pushing the idea that the disc must die.
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post #157 of 208
2/22/13 at 3:06am
There are a little out of order because a forum mod deleted my original post, but you get the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Yeah, you'll need to be blind to not be able to see the differences. rolleyes.gif

I highly doubt that anyone would be able to tell at a normal sitting distance (no, you can't plaster your face up against the screen to go pixel peeping). There really is no visual quality difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Did you even bother reading ANY of my posts regarding the visible differences?

NO PIXEL PEEPING NECESSARY

Please please PLEASE come to my dedicated theatre. IF I'm not accurate at least 85% of the time, you can take ALL of my HT gears, and my other 3 sets of HT systems in my house !!!!

All ANYBODY need is THX recommended viewing distance and ANYBODY (maybe YOU are the exception) WiLL be ale to tell the difference especially from the macroblocking and colour banding.

Yes, pixel peeping is necessary. There is no detectable macroblocking or color banding on VUDU HDX. Comcast, OTOH, has it all over the place. It's a total mess.
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post #158 of 208
2/22/13 at 5:06am
Thread Starter 
Nobody is pushing any agenda. I have my opinion and I have my eyes and I write about what I see. The world is moving towards digital downloads. That's Apple's agenda - If you want to point a finger, point it at Cupertino. Billions and billions of iTunes items sold and laptops with no optical drive at all. That's Apple, they started this revolution. Discs are dead. Not literally, but figuratively you know it's true. Just as there are still horses and buggies, there will still be Blu-rays in the future, but they will be considered a novelty. Of course there will be die hard fans of the medium who won't give it up, just like there are vinyl aficionados and even some folks who still buy cassette tapes.

Inevitably the cost of memory will drop to the point where HD rentals could be distributed on USB sticks. A precedent is the release of the complete Beatles in 24-bit, available only on a limited-edition USB drive. I would find that an ideal solution. Anything that moves and can be scratched, I'd rather be done with. That's me, personally, with no agenda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

It sure seems to me that AVS is trying to push the streaming agenda. Discs are dead...: bs. Discs are still the king of the revenue stream for the home video

Edited by imagic - 2/22/13 at 7:06am
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post #159 of 208
2/22/13 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Yes, pixel peeping is necessary. There is no detectable macroblocking or color banding on VUDU HDX. Comcast, OTOH, has it all over the place. It's a total mess.

You're telling me that both myself, my family, several of my friends (who are mastering engineers at Technicolor) are all delusional when we can clearly see the macroblocking and colour banding? rolleyes.gif

Count your blessings that you can't see them. But for those who can see them, it's a nightmare.
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post #160 of 208
2/22/13 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Nobody is pushing any agenda. I have my opinion and I have my eyes and I write about what I see. The world is moving towards digital downloads. That's Apple's agenda - If you want to point a finger, point it at Cupertino. Billions and billions of iTunes items sold and laptops with no optical drive at all. That's Apple, they started this revolution. Discs are dead. Not literally, but figuratively you know it's true. Just as there are still horses and buggies, there will still be Blu-rays in the future, but they will be considered a novelty. Of course there will be die hard fans of the medium who won't give it up, just like there are vinyl aficionados and even some folks who still buy cassette tapes.

Inevitably the cost of memory will drop to the point where HD rentals could be distributed on USB sticks. A precedent is the release of the complete Beatles in 24-bit, available only on a limited-edition USB drive. I would find that an ideal solution. Anything that moves and can be scratched, I'd rather be done with. That's me, personally, with no agenda.

Do you have any hard evidence that EST(electronic sell through) is working? Sales numbers are closely guarded. Streaming is working in the NetFlix model and Amazon prime model, but I don't think EST for movies is anywhere close to over taking DVD and BD sales. Let's not forget that a vast majority of those iTunes sales you reference above are for low cost music downloads and while Apple has sold many CDs still continue to be made.

You started this thread with the presumption to readers that you like Blu-ray and you only took the opportunity because you wanted to see how it compared and now a week in you are declaring discs are dead... no agenda? I smell something fishy. You sure seem to be a cheerleader for Apple's ecosystem.

Also you want to think the disc buying public are an exception to the rule in your world, but you fully admit you are paying for a higher speed internet connection to get the best out of the download/streaming models. There are plenty of people that don't want to or can't afford the expense of higher tiered ISP services. You seem to think that you are in the majority of users opting for faster service when the reality is you are not.
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post #161 of 208
2/22/13 at 4:21pm
Is this thread still live?

I can't believe anyone in their right minds would still debate the differences in PQ and AQ of online streaming vs a blu-ray disc.

Even the OP have shown the differences, at least in PQ.

I am not a blu-ray disc guy myself, but I appreciate what it offers. All my blu-ray discs, at least those that I care to watch more than once, are ripped and stored on my HPTC at 30-40GB per movie (just the main movie and DTS-MA track where available).

You are making a compromise for the ease of convenience and money saving by going streaming. Yes, PQ/AQ is close to an actual disc or original rip, but not quite at the same level YET!
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post #162 of 208
2/22/13 at 5:25pm
AGREED!
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post #163 of 208
2/28/13 at 4:40pm
Digital is better, and digital is the future. The only advantage of Blu-ray is that I can borrow my co-workers' Blu-rays for free!
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post #164 of 208
2/28/13 at 5:49pm
and blu-ray is not digital how?
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post #165 of 208
2/28/13 at 5:51pm
And streaming IS NOT better. Worse sound, worse picture quality... how is THAT better? rolleyes.gif
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post #166 of 208
2/28/13 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Digital is better, and digital is the future. The only advantage of Blu-ray is that I can borrow my co-workers' Blu-rays for free!

Kiss that convenience goodbye if this becomes the new normal. Now it will be: if you want to see it, you HAVE to rent it or buy it yourself. There's no borrowing or lending... to even see if it's worth buying a title for your collection in the first place. In the internet-locked age of home theater... there would be no such thing.
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post #167 of 208
2/28/13 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

and blu-ray is not digital how?

I meant digital delivery, not disc-based. Yes, Blu-ray is a digital signal like all other video out there at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Kiss that convenience goodbye if this becomes the new normal. Now it will be: if you want to see it, you HAVE to rent it or buy it yourself. There's no borrowing or lending... to even see if it's worth buying a title for your collection in the first place. In the internet-locked age of home theater... there would be no such thing.

They won't do that, as they make a crapton of money off of people buying expensive blu-rays. And that would only hurt the few like me who mooch. The others would massively benefit from a rent-only digital model.
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post #168 of 208
3/1/13 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Kiss that convenience goodbye if this becomes the new normal. Now it will be: if you want to see it, you HAVE to rent it or buy it yourself. There's no borrowing or lending... to even see if it's worth buying a title for your collection in the first place. In the internet-locked age of home theater... there would be no such thing.

With UV, you could always create a separate sub account for lending out films... So this would not be the end of it, but the same could not be said for other competing companies....
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post #169 of 208
3/2/13 at 10:13pm
I recently watch Skyfall on Directv on demand. The video was good, but I suspect that the audio is inferior to the bluray version.

I like renting a blu-ray movie through Netflix before making a purchase, but with Netflix blu-ray rental disks often having inferior audio formats, the movie studios are again shooting themselves in the foot.
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post #170 of 208
3/5/13 at 2:00pm
After 169 posts and almost 3 weeks, a little summarizing may help the situation:

The original poster has an affinity for streaming movies and considers physical discs to be dead. Some here agree, some disagree and are willing to give up their discs when they can be pried from their cold dead hands.

The original poster has 60Mbps of bandwidth available to him from his ISP; a rate that some might be willing to do outrageous things to have. However, since Vudu's max bitrate is about 9Mbps and iTunes tops out at around 5Mbps, anyone with that and some to spare should be able to enjoy the best that these services have to offer.

The original poster determined that Blu-ray is still the best quality format with which to view Skyfall.

After originally judging iTunes in 1080 to be the best streaming format, albeit with some issues, it was determined that iTunes at 720 actually trumps the 1080 version. A slight edge was given to Vudu's 7.1 channel sound delivery on the PS3, even though the movie is not available in 7.1.

Partway through the discussion so far, the original poster has determined that comparing the various streaming services to the best quality format available (Blu-ray, according to the OP) is no longer necessary and will not be done in future comparisons.

Does that about cover it?
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post #171 of 208
3/5/13 at 2:27pm
Yup! Too bad blu-ray is "dead" just like CD is "dead" and excessively compressed video and lossy sound is good enough solution. wink.gif I guess AVS crowd have moved from striving for the best PQ AQ to merely good enough.

Soon enough AVS forum will also be dead because if people no longer strive for the best, why bother withquality AV components? Let's all just use Seiki TV with soundbar... After all, it's good enough. rolleyes.gif
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post #172 of 208
3/5/13 at 2:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigScreen View Post

After 169 posts and almost 3 weeks, a little summarizing may help the situation:

The original poster has an affinity for streaming movies and considers physical discs to be dead. Some here agree, some disagree and are willing to give up their discs when they can be pried from their cold dead hands.

The original poster has 60Mbps of bandwidth available to him from his ISP; a rate that some might be willing to do outrageous things to have. However, since Vudu's max bitrate is about 9Mbps and iTunes tops out at around 5Mbps, anyone with that and some to spare should be able to enjoy the best that these services have to offer.

The original poster determined that Blu-ray is still the best quality format with which to view Skyfall.

After originally judging iTunes in 1080 to be the best streaming format, albeit with some issues, it was determined that iTunes at 720 actually trumps the 1080 version. A slight edge was given to Vudu's 7.1 channel sound delivery on the PS3, even though the movie is not available in 7.1.

Partway through the discussion so far, the original poster has determined that comparing the various streaming services to the best quality format available (Blu-ray, according to the OP) is no longer necessary and will not be done in future comparisons.

Does that about cover it?

Sure, that's about the gist of it, except that I am not going to stop comparing Blu-ray to the streaming formats. In fact I'm about to update my Life of Pi comparison with Blu-ray examples. For what it's worth my internet tier is 105Mbos, but it's hardly an extravagant expense, many people pay more for their cable TV "package". The conclusions I reached with Skyfall were different than the following two movies I compared, Argo and Life of Pi - especially Life of Pi, which performed much better at 1080p in the digital-distribution formats.
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post #173 of 208
3/5/13 at 2:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Yup! Too bad blu-ray is "dead" just like CD is "dead" and excessively compressed video and lossy sound is good enough solution. wink.gif I guess AVS crowd have moved from striving for the best PQ AQ to merely good enough.

Soon enough AVS forum will also be dead because if people no longer strive for the best, why bother withquality AV components? Let's all just use Seiki TV with soundbar... After all, it's good enough. rolleyes.gif

So, there's no room for people who just need a modest home theater and a convenient way to watch a new release? Don't fool yourself, you are in a tiny minority as far as how picky you are. iTunes HD and Vudu HDX are certainly good enough to take advantage of sophisticated gear.
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post #174 of 208
3/5/13 at 2:51pm
Who is fooling whom? Sales of physical movie media went up yet you claim that physical media is dead. rolleyes.gif
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post #175 of 208
3/5/13 at 2:56pm
I'm curious to add to the pot the Kaleidescape Digital Download service, claiming to offer bit for bit BD quality in both audio and video tracks, plus all the extras present on the physical disk.
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post #176 of 208
3/5/13 at 3:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Who is fooling whom? Sales of physical movie media went up yet you claim that physical media is dead. rolleyes.gif

Growth in Blu-ray sales is dropping. Growth in EST and VOD is going nowhere but up, at an exponential rate. If you were to draw a chart, the inevitable decline of optical media is clear, the bell curve is already taking shape. Maybe optical will plateau, it certainly will not enjoy some renaissance that propels it ahead of the EST model in sales.

"Digital distribution, which includes electronic sellthrough (EST), transactional video-on-demand and subscription VOD services such as Netflix, surged more than 77% to $2.4 billion compared to $1.3 billion last year."

"For sales week ending 9/29/2012 Blu-ray's share of the week's package media sales reached a new record of 44% vs 56% for DVD"

"Total physical sellthrough, which includes DVD, dipped 3.6% to $3.7 billion from $3.8 billion last year."

All taken from mid-2012 articles. If you do the math, you'll see that digital distribution already beats Blu-ray in sales and is increasing its share much more rapidly than Blu-ray. Every gain Blu-ray makes is at DVD's expense, the total sales of optical discs are dropping. I'm sure the sales ratio has already shifted significantly in favor of EST.
Edited by imagic - 3/5/13 at 3:20pm
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post #177 of 208
3/5/13 at 3:15pm
Of courae growth is dropping. Growth of anything after a certain level will drop. Any economic student can tell you that. Growth of receiver is also dropping, does it mean receivers are dead? Sales growth of iphone 5 have also dropped, does it mean iphone is dead? Growth of car sales is dropping, does it mean cars are dead?

No one can expect for growth of anything to always increasing ad infinitum.
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post #178 of 208
3/5/13 at 3:17pm
PS, at a certain point, growth of Netflix will also drop just like evrything else in this world.
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post #179 of 208
3/5/13 at 3:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

PS, at a certain point, growth of Netflix will also drop just like evrything else in this world.

Sure, all growth must plateau at some point. The question is if your market share then starts to shrink, or if you get to enjoy near-monopoly status for years or decades. That is usually the fate of corporations. It's much less likely Comcast will shrink anytime soon, and Comcast would certainly love to see discs gone ASAP. The first thing Netflix will do, if they start to shrink, is dump optical media.
Edited by imagic - 3/5/13 at 3:38pm
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post #180 of 208
3/5/13 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Sure, all growth must plateau at some point.

And before it plateaus, the growth rate will decline. It doesn't mean that anything is dead when the growth rate is declining. There is still growth. Only when it shrinks then one can claim it that the (put product here) is dying. Even then it's still not dead.

If Netflix number is of any indication, which is not, it only shows that the rental growth is growing exponentially. In terms of purchase, there is hardly any growth in streaming purchase because when people spend $20 or so, they want a physical media, not just a cloud based thing.
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