Why LCD over Plasma?

I've tried plasmas twice--a Vizio 6 or so years ago, and a Panny 55" UT50 last month.

I returned them and went with an LCD RPTV the first time, and a Panny 55" ET5 LED this time for the same two reasons.

1. Buzzing. Both times I got sets that buzzed loudly on bright scenes (could here over dialogue in quiet scenes, extra annoying for commercials due to so many white backgrounds). Both times I had a repair guy out (replaced a board in the Vizio, put in new screws with washers in the Panny), but it didn't quiet it down at all. I either have bad luck getting bad sets that buzz louder than the average plasma, or my hearing is just very sensitive to picking it up.

2. Image retention. I like to leave the TV on ESPN for hours, often do some 6+ hour gaming sessions. With both sets I ran into IR problems where ticker logos, gaming huds etc. would be visible on bright scenes for hours afterwards. I never got any permanent burn in, but the stubbornness of it going away after 6-8 hour sessions made me wary of gaming longer, or playing the same game hours every night or leaving ESPN on in the back ground all day when working at home etc. And I'm not willing to change my usage habits to fit the flaws of a TV personally.


I'd concede that I like the PQ of plasma better. Especially the black levels and handling of motion. But I'm not a videophile and I'd thus rather give that up to have a silent TV that I can use however I want with no risk of IR.

If I didn't seem prone to hearing buzzing, and my usages didn't involve hours of static images from tickers and game huds (i.e. I mainly watched movies and/or watched lots of different channels), I'd definitely get a plasma. But plasma's just don't work for my usages and pet peeves so I'll stick with LED/LCD for now. Hopefully some future tech (be it OLED or whatever) can eventually give us plasma or better PQ with no proclivity for buzzing or major risk of IR.

You're right that LED/LCDs are generally much brighter than plasmas. However, not all LCDs have non-reflective screens; for example, Samsung's LED/LCD screens are generally quite reflective. And if you actually like the look of 120/240Hz frame interpolation (very few people do), then go for it. I definitely prefer the look of plasma if the ambient room light can be controlled. LCDs have several inherent problems (such as high black level and motion blur) that have been addressed with tweaks (such as dynamic LEDs and frame interpolation/backlight flashing), but plasmas don't have these problems to begin with. Plus, the picture quality of plasma doesn't degrade as you move off axis, which it does with virtually all LCDs, no matter how advanced or expensive. Yes, LED/LCDs can look crisper, but I prefer the smoothness of plasma.

 

Don't judge plasmas by how they look in the store; LED/LCDs will outshine them every time in that environment, which is why I think LED/LCDs have such a huge sales lead over plasmas in the market. But most homes are nothing like a sales floor, so it's an unfair comparison. I think the VT50 is the best flat panel you can buy today, but if you can wait a few months and have the budget, I'd wait for the new ZT60. If you really do prefer LED/LCD, either Sony or Samsung are excellent, at least in the higher end of their lines.

dmaul1114 makes a good point about image retention; if you leave images with static elements on a plasma screen for hours and days at a time, image retention will be a problem. If this describes how you will use the display, an LED/LCD is a better choice for you. I've heard a number of people complain about plasma buzzing, but I've never experienced it myself, even after reviewing dozens of plasmas.

Are there any 2013 LED's that are a little closer to Plasma's in terms of blacks/motion, or at the very least, fix flashlighting for around $2000?

Last year I took back a LG 55" 7600 - Had grey blacks and awful flashlighting in the corners. Forget about watching a dark film at night.

I also took back a Samsung 60" EH6000 - Great blacks, no flashlighting, but had horrible motion, purple trails, and lackluster PQ overall.

That was in October. After that I gave up. Tired of buying a TV only to have to return it. Haven't had one since

I've come close to getting a Panny GT50 and Sammy E7000 - reports of IR on all 2012 Pannys scared me away, as did buzzing on E7000. I often leave iTunes open while I play songs, and IR would really bug me.

If Sony HX850 came in a 60" version, I'd probably buy it. I don't want any smaller. I'm out of ideas. Guess I'll just keep waiting.

Well, I have a plasma and several LCDs, one of which is the LG 65LW6500 65" LED. LED/LCDs, at least in the bigger sizes, are often as reflective as a plasma (my LG certainly is). I use interpolation on my LG, adjusted to my taste: de-judder at 3, and de-blur at 9. That gets it fairly close to plasma smoothness without *too* much artifacting/haloing. I've noticed that my LED can be too bright when using my HTPC for web surfing (as I am now), leading to eye fatigue. Truth be told, I got the LG for its passive 3D. It's edge-lit and the minor flashlighting never bothered me, but the backlighting is uneven for sure. The passive 3D on that set is lovely.

I just wanted to address the OP's questions, not rehash all the pros and cons of plasma vs LCD. I'm rather agnostic about it. But sure, plasma gives more for the money. My LG set me back over two thousand bucks. To get PQ comparable to the Panasonic plasma, you're gonna have to spend more, a lot more that that. Like for a Sharp Elite or a top-end Sony (I forget the model numbers). BTW, burn-in is not really an issue with newer plasmas, although IR (image retention) might bother some folks. It doesn't last long, even on my old plasma. Run the pixel orbiter and color wash from time to time and it goes away quickly.

Not to go too far OT, but sadly, after a year of use, my LG has developed a vertical line, which most likely means a defective panel. I've filed a claim under the Discover Card extended warranty, and it's likely I'll get a refund. What I really want as a replacement is a BIG 4k passive set, but that's not on the cards for several years at least. So I'm considering plasma again as a stopgap. A cheap one, like the LG 60PA5500, no SmartTV, no 3D (I dislike active). It's $699 bucks after $100 rebate with free shipping at Tiger Direct for another week. Yes, everyone here recommends the Panasonics, and for good reasons, but just wanted to put that out there. A 60" plasma for 700 dollars is a lot of TV for the price, even if it's not the best one can buy. Owners posting in the dedicated thread are mostly pleased with it.. If I get some indication where my claim is going next week, I think I'll get it.

Good luck.
Edited by fritzi93 - 2/13/13 at 6:31pm

Passive 3D was my favorite thing about the 7600 that's for sure. I don't know why active still exists.

I guess I'd rather have buzzing or IR than flashlighting and poor motion. If only OLEDs were here. I think I'm stuck with plasma, and at least a 3 year Geek Squad extended warranty to cover burnin/IR.

I've been an LCD owner, switched to a plasma, Samsung PN58C8000, which was warrantied out due to a burn in repair(CN logo) and then finally to pink banding. I was upgraded to the 60E8000, which I sent back due to dings in the frame upon arrival. I am currently between TV's as I have a nice bonus coming my way next month, but am battling over the same issue. Looking to go LED LCD so I can lose my plasma paranoia. If you live by yourself, and don't game hours on end, only watch full screen content, and allow static images about an hour or so, then I would go plasma, as they do offer the best PQ out here. But in the real world, with in home babysitters, wives who watch the same channel all day with stationary logo, and who wants to take a break during gaming to let the screen wipes run just in case. Also, both plasmas had slight buzzing, not as bad as everybody acts, but present. The whites are not very white either, and you do have a dimmer picture. I will be switching to an LED LCD to keep my sanity, and unlock the Cartoon Network from my DVR. It's not fun to turn on your tv and the first thing you do is look at the bottom right to see if somebody burned something in. LED LCD will have to deal with flashlighting, and screen uniformity, but during scenes where something is happening, you will not notice it. None are perfect, you just have to figure out which issues are easier to live with.

Yeah, it's all about what you can live with.

Like I said, I'm not a videophile at all. I don't even know (or want to know since it doens't bother me obviously) what things like flashlighting are. Motion blur doesn't bother me. Lesser black levels is a mild annoyance since dark scenes are a small percentage of my viewing.

I can pretty much buy any TV from a reputable brand and be happy with the picture as I don't nitpick it, don't care about learning what reference picture is nor trying to get close to it etc. As long as the picture is clear, the colors accurate to my eye (and I mean very basic stuff--grass is green, sky is blue, skin tones look normal etc.) I'm good to go.

So the flaws of LCD just don't bother me. But with plasmas IR make me worry about my usage habits and have no peace of mind to just use the TV normally which is unacceptable. And the buzzing is very loud on bright scenes too me the two times I've tried it. Probably a combo of bad luck with getting louder than normal buzzing, having hearing sensitive to buzzing noises and electronic hums (drives me nuts), and being in a small condo with hardwood floors (sit 7-8 feet back and noises reflect and carry).

But again, a videophile may well be totally opposite and willing to manage IR (or just has usages where it's not an issue) and ignore any buzzing etc. to get a close to reference picture. Myself, I'll continue to remain blissfully ignorant about videophile (and audiophile) stuff and enjoy my lower end gear and enjoy spending the thousands I save on things that are more important to me.

I recently went through the selection process and painfully returned my Panasonic GT50. Painful as I like the black level and color so much. I don't have issue on buzzing. It will only have slight buzz if the color is all white and stay there. For example, when I was running slides to break in the TV, when the white slide is on, I can hear the buzz if I'm really close to the TV. At my sitting distance (8-9 feet), no issue at all.

I can also see Rainbow on the edge of high contrast scenes. I tried one week to see if I can get used to it but failed.

The 60Hz flickering also bothers me but I can live with that. If I lower the contrast, I won't detect the flickering but it will ruin the image (won't be as good).

So I switched to LED (Sammy 7100). The black isn't as good nor the uniformity. In black scenes, for example, ending credits for movies / tvs, you can see slightly brighter spots. How brighter these spots will depend on the room lighting.

The viewing angle for Sammy 7100 is bad. I was very surprised that choosing a TV is "that difficult". Returning a TV isn't my favorite activity considering all labor involved.

Right now I decide to live with LED.

I feel this is going to be my downfall as well. I recently bought a 65GT50. Slight buzzing that I can live with. But I see the same rainbow effects on a regular basis. I hate it, because this tv produces the best picture I've ever seen. The rainbows/light flashing might be too much. I'm going to give it time over the weekend watching a few movies and adjusting the settings some more to see how it pans out.

I came from an LCD trial that failed due to flashlighting, clouding, motion, etc. Sucks that it is so hard to find a good set. I even considered the 65 XBR 950, but too may reports of banding for such an expensive tv.

Mine was either much worse, or my hearing is just more sensitive. I think it's the former as my girlfriend could hear it too.

With my UT50 on a white slide you could easily hear it 15+ feet away and it could regularly be heard over dialogue in bright sunny scenes, even more in commercials with white back ground etc.

Like I said, I've had buzzing issues both times I've had problems and also noticed it at friends houses. So it's either my hearing is just very receptive to it or I have bad luck with being around ones that buzz louder than normal.

I'd say you just tune into that frequency really well, especially if you've heard that at mulitple friends houses. I've been around literally DOZENS and DOZENS of plasmas over the years and the only time I can hear the buzz is if I'm within 2 feet of the screen

Yeah, that's probably it.

My girlfriend commented on how loud the white slide was, but she never noticed it when watching stuff--other than when fast forwarding commercials on the DVR as then there's no sound at you could hear the buzz pipe up on white scenes (logos on white background etc.) as the commercials are flying by.

Sucks that I'm apparently sensitive to it, but a moot point anyway since my usages are prone to IR on plasma anyway. I love the PQ, but can't live with the buzz AND having to change how I use the TV to limit IR. Hopefully someday we get new tech that matches or exceeds the PQ, is totally silent and has no realistic risk of IR.

yeah, it all depends on your usage of the TV. I never watch TV, only netflix and films so plasma's are PERFECT for me. I can game for hours on those suckers with no IR as long as I run a few slides or full screen info after any long period of time with static huds. The PQ is second to none, especially in dark scenes, I haven't seen an LED under $2000 that can match my $700 plasma for PQ.

but for people who do ridiculous amounts of ESPN and are sensitive to that sonic frequency than it might not work as well. I have a 55 inch LED and a 50 inch plasma and I almost hate to do anything besides game on my LED because the pq is so blatantly better on the plasma

Yep, it's all just usage and personal preference.

TV is my main usage. Thing is on ESPN tons, and some CNN. I work at home a day or two a week and a lot on weekends and I love having ESPN or CNN on in the background all day--on top of actively watching Sportscenter morning and evening, Around the Horn, PTI and lots of live sports.

Gaming I do less often, but when I do it tends to be in long sessions. I hate just gaming for an hour or two. I usually just set aside a night or day or two a week when I'm really into a game and just put 6+ hours into it with some short breaks for meals etc.

Movies I watch 1-3 a week. I used to watch more, but with the hectic schedule that's about all I get in.


I'll agree on plasma PQ. I loved it--but I'm also not a videophile so I don't care that much. I don't really enjoy a movie more on a plasma even though the blacks etc. are better. The acting, plot etc. are still the same, and those things are why I watch movies and TV shows. I'm just not a person that has a hobby of having good A/V gear and tweaking it to get a near reference image etc. So it's pretty easy for me to give up that stuff to not have to worry about IR giving my static image heavy usage, or be annoyed by buzzing given my ears sensitivity to that type of electronic buzzing frequency.

lol, it's amusing that we sound like polar opposites in our views and choices (please, not bashing them at all, it's ALL about choices)

tv, can't stand. absolutely hate televised sports with a living passion.

movies, 6-8 a week (I work as a reviewer on another site so I gotta be on em)

gamng. I can only game for an hour or so at most and then I get bored and wanna do something else, then I'll come back and do a little more

I'm a ANAL videophile. it drives my wife nuts when I'm pausing a movie and running calibration settings just because I know I can eek a little more color or detail out of the picture with some more finagling (but then again working as a reviewer I have to be as anal as Ican)

Right now...go LCD/LED for brighter picture and better solid white screens, Elite or Samsung.

Viewing angle will suffer, but better sharper-solid picture with LCD/LED.


If you can wait, the Samsung Plasma F8500 looks like the best of both worlds.

It has that bright picture "Pop", deep dark black levels, great off-angle viewing and sharper image.

Yeah, it's all good. There's no right or wrong views when it comes to hobbies. It's all about doing what you enjoy with your free time.

I love movies, and would like to watch more, but it comes after sports in my free time. And it can be tough to find the 2 hour blocks to watch them some evenings as I work so much (though I guess I could take less "goof online breaks" while working--like now--but I need to recharge every hour or two for few minutes), so I don't get in as many as I'd like.

Gaming ebbs and flows on how often I play. And I'm leaning toward just clearing out my back log and not buying any next generation systems as it takes me a long time to finish games these days with just playing a night or two a week. So if I do that, I'd get a bit more time for movies each week. But that's a year plus away given the games on my shelf/ hard drive (PS+ freebies) I want to get to.

Forgot to mention that earlier, viewing angle just has never been a big deal to me. It's not bad at all on my Panny LED. Not as good as the plasma I had first, but still good. And it's moot for my current set up as the couch directly in front of it is the only decent place to sit and watch anyway as the living room isn't very big.


Buzzing could still be an issue there for people who are bothered by it though as the Samsung buzz is louder than the Panny's by all account. I can't speak to it personally as I've never been around a Samsung plasma (other than show rooms and you can't hear buzz there over all the ambient noise).

Samsung has LED Motion Plus to address this very issue.

I have the 240Hz Samsung ES7100 with LED Motion Plus on and the motion is CRT/Plasma like.

I went from early 60 Hz LCD with trailing to later 120Hz LCD with blurr.

The ES7100 has zero motion issues in sports or darker scenes- without AMP (motion interprolation) or S.O.E..

50" LG Plasma is $600
Will give you a better picture then several times that price LCD.

what?? that thing is freaking 720p! bleh! and that too on a 50" tv.

I have a Bravia V series LCDTV and have loved it so far, even got it wall mounted! looks beautiful . And if you calibrate it, then it'll feel like a whole new TV again.

From what I have heard and read, your eyes wont even be able to tell the difference between 240hz and 600hz. So that should not bee the deciding factor.

I have been happy with the quality of my LCDTV even more so than the Panasonic Plasma I have in the living room. The only complaint I can make about LCD's is the poor blacks. But with LED's that has improved a lot from what I have heard.

I am personally a Sony fan but that or Samsung I would highly recommend for LEDTV's.

Who mentioned a 50" 720p plasma?

Anyway, Tiger Direct still has in stock the 1080p 60" LG 60PA5500 for $799 shipped, though all up it's $699 after the $100 rebate. Did a little research and apparently the Cinema mode can display 24 fps content at 72 Hz (just as in theaters), rather than 60 Hz with consequent judder from pulldown. No interpolation though.

I'm of two minds about frame interpolation. I dislike it very much when it's giving me artifacts and ghosting, etc. But when it's good, it's very good indeed. Yes, its real purpose (from the manufacturers' point of view) is to lessen LCD motion blur, but I'm one of those who likes the so-called soap opera effect. As I mentioned before my best compromise was to turn de-blur up and de-judder down. It seemed those settings created a minimum of extra frames but processed them better. Or maybe I'm all wrong (LG doesn't explain the settings at all), but that seemed to work best.

As has been said several times already, pick whatever flaws you can live with, because there's no perfect TV.
Edited by fritzi93 - 2/15/13 at 5:59am

Ya I noticed this when turned on the "clear" feature (no AMP). My folks have this TV and I spent some time messing with it. (7150 from costco).

Very nice. And motion is excellent. In some respects clearer than even my VT50 during motion. The VT50 tends to not smear but soften details during motion.

LED Motion Plus is not AMP its a strobing effect to give CRT/Plasma like-motion.

http://support-us.samsung.com/cyber/popup/iframe/pop_troubleshooting_fr.jsp?idx=161761

I never said it was amp. I was speaking about MY experience...


It was a different setting on the 7150 I was talking about. Feature was called "clear" if I remember right. We're talking about different things. I'm not sure what the clear setting does to the backlight. I just though the motion looked pretty good with it on.
Edited by SiGGy - 2/15/13 at 3:25pm

Okay, I've used Clear with AMP before.

Strobing backlighting is probably mixed with frame interpolation, it will dim the picture. I do not like the fake interpolation frames and i do not like the side effect of the added black frames.