Finally making the jump to seperates, and need advise please

Budget?
Speakers?
Can you use your current receiver as a pre, and then buy a nicer amp?

What's wrong with the Integra? It's a nice receiver already.

If the receiver has the features you want, just us it as the pre/pro. Using a receiver as you first pre/pro is an economical way to move to separates.

I needed to move to separates because I went to 4ohm speakers. I am thrilled with the results. However, if your current receiver is not having trouble driving your speakers, the change to separates might not be dramatic.

I went with a Yamaha A800 refurb and Emotiva UPA-500 and came in well under your budget.

So why not just add an amplifier? I don't see you getting a better set up if you bought a new receiver, and a new amplifier, rather than just using your current receiver and a new amplifier. If you got a pre amp surround processor and then a seperate amplifier, You'd probably be cutting quite a number of features just to have a pre amplifier. You certainly won't keep 9.2 preouts.

Why buy a cheap receiver, and a cheap amplifier like the UPA-500 and only get 80 wats for 5 channels, when your current receiver is putting out 130 per channel. You're basically trading down. Just add an XPA-2 or you can go the cheapo route I'm doing and buying a Crown Amplifier first to see if I like having an amplifier. Most people have reported (from my research since I'm not an expert in the matters), that the fans never come on, it runs quite and cool, and powers their stuff easily. You could probably pick up a used one with transferable warranty off ebay for like 150 and just test it and see if you even need an amplifier. If not, you're only out 150 and it will take some load off your receiver. if you do like it, you can keep it and if it's too loud, you can buy another Emotiva amp, and still come in under budget compared to your current two options and you can probably just sell the used amplifier back on ebay.

Is that 130 per channel with all channels driven, or just two? Makes a big difference.

Not positive but I'm going to even take the leap to say that a 9.2 top of the line receiver, can output 80 watts to 5 channels lol. Just look at the htlabs of weaker integra receives they all are more than capable of that.

First, not everyone (certainly not on AVS) says separates are better. It depends.

Second, having older AVRs while generally heavier does not always mean better SQ.

Third, a little Google search reveals the Int 7.9 is the Onkyo TX-SR806 which has been bench tested:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/onkyo-tx-sr806-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures and has very decent power.

Therefore, I'd argue that the AV123's are 8Ω 90.5dB you don't need more power than what the Int can provide. Getting a 5CH or 7CH power amp is way overkill but some people like having a 2CH or 3CH power amp to take the load off the AVR.

The Integra only has Audyssey MultEQ so upgrading to an AVR with XT32 will be more likely to give better SQ than just buying more power per se which isn't used at normal listening volumes.

The 130 wpc on the Integra is only 2 channels driven, so 80-90 watts is about what the Integra will do with 5 channels driven. That puts it about the same as the UPA-500. The Emotiva also has significantly lower THD at .01%, although the Integra is very good at .08%. There is also the benefit in an external amp in that each channel has discrete power circuitry. So I wouldn't say that the UPA would be considered a downgrade.

I'm not saying it would be a good choice for the OP. The speakers he has are not demanding on a receiver. Like I said, in that case there might not be much difference with a separate amp. With his budget, he could keep the receiver as a pre/pro and go for more power with the highly regarded Emotiva XPA-5, or he could just get a new receiver with the latest features. Or maybe the money might be better spent on a subwoofer, or additional surround speakers.

Not necessarily. First to clear the air, here are the actual ratings:

130 watts minimum continuous
power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2
channels driven from 20 Hz to 20
kHz, with a maximum total
harmonic distortion of 0.08% (FTC)

145 watts minimum continuous power
per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels
driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total
harmonic distortion of 0.7% (FTC)

160 watts minimum continuous power
per channel, 6 ohm loads, 2 channels
driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total
harmonic distortion of 0.1% (FTC)

THD (Total Harmonic Distortion)
0.08% (Power Rated)

The FTC test is performed by law using a pure sine wave and a resistive load. Music is not a single pure sine wave but a combination of a number of waves that vary in terms of frequency and amplitude all of the time. Therefore the energy content of music runs from 1/3 to 1/10 or even less of the sine wave that is used to establish the FTC specifications. That means that the AVR's power supply can handle from 6 to 20 or more channels operating at the same time with music. Loudpspeaker impedance are not a fixed number as specified but again vary considerably depending on the frequency. This cuts the AVR additional slack. Off loading the bass to a powered subwoofer cuts the AVR even more additional slack.

Therefore the ratings given above are actually conservative compared to what is likely to happen in your listening room.

If you are going to add an external amplifier, then you would like to be able to play your system a little louder, no? If you want to obtain twice the perceived loudness you would need 10 times the power or about 1450 watts per channel. Good luck with the durability of your speakers if you actually tried to play them that loud.

What are the ratings for 5, 7, or 9 channels driven?

I know this is often pointed out, but would anyone really want to double the perceived loudness of a typical receiver? I would think a 15-20% boost in perceived loudness would be pretty significant.

In the end, if I were the OP I would spend the money on a subwoofer as AV123 recommended for the X-Statik speakers since they only go down to 65hz. I think that would make more of a difference than any changes in amplification.

I think you're going about this wrong.

The first question you need to actually ask is what features you want. If you actually want features in a new receiver that are necessary for you (can't do withouts), then it may be time to upgrade.

I think you'll be hardpressed to find a receiver though under 600 dollars with better features than you're current receiver. You have the Multi EQ from audyssey (which you have to spend over 600 to get from everyone else), 12v triggers, and 9.2 preouts. But again, it's you and what you want. If you want network play and remote control using a phone then maybe a new receiver is for you (not sure if your receiver has this). However, if you get a new receiver/amp combo, you'll be probably getting the UPA-500 which is 80 W per channel for 5 channels. You have a top of the line receiver, again I know it's just a guess (we can't find lab tests), but I'm going to say that a receiver built to drive 9 channels can probably drive 5 at 80 watts. If for some insane reason a top of the line receiver can't, I'm sure it gets pretty damn close.

Either way though ignoring all that even, you gotta figure out what features you actually want. Then figure out how much power you want to use to drive your speakers (I can't find power handling specs on those anywhere). Then see what you'd be willing to trade off on.

Personally though:
I'd buy the Emotiva XPA-2. Pocket the other 200 dollars OR
I'd buy Pro Amp for like 350(you can easily get 350 W a channel with that cash), hook that up and pocket the extra 650, if I find a receiver I like at 650 and it has features that are must have over the receiver I currently have then I'd get that (this is actually the path I'm currently doing right now).

Just saying.

My idea is that if you are going to spend the kind of money it takes to upgrade this way, you want some clearly noticable benefit.


You would probably hardly notice it. I've done extensive testing of what various increments of additional loudness actually sound like with music. 15-20% louder can easily get lost in the music.

Agreed.

My optimistic estimate of the bass dynamic range of the AC123s would be:

Freq,Hz Max SPL, DB

10 81
20 93
30 100
40 105
50 109
60 112
70 115
80 117
90 119


This does not include the losses due to the open baffle which are said to be significant.

Good choice. Buying a brand new preprocessor and amp would not have gotten u the same results Imo.

Congrats on the new gear.

Given that:

1. You already have the subs
2. The speakers are 6 ohm (I saw them somewhere mistakenly listed as 8 ohm)
3. The Integra makes for a nice pre/pro

I think you made a great choice. I would have done exactly the same.

It depends on what you use for the other two surrounds. Put the better surrounds on the side and the others in the back. The bigger question is what to use for a center.

Actually the dipoles might be better on the sides. Of course the AVS way is to try them both and see which way sounds better to you.

Don't know what your goals are and it's difficult to compare the Onkyo to the emotiva due to the way they are tested but I'd expect your new amp will allow maybe 3-6 dB more loudness at a given distortion level in your room assuming your speakers can handle the extra power..