AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Please look at my Pioneer Elite and Martinlogan system and please offer me a sub recommendation.
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Please look at my Pioneer Elite and Martinlogan system and please offer me a sub recommendation.

post #1 of 19
2/14/13 at 7:12am
Thread Starter 
I will use it for 60% HT and 40% music. I actually have a need for other things as well but this needs to be addressed because music wise my BIC F12 just can't keep up and is not smooth enough or blend well but it works just fine in HT. At this point money has gotten tight and I need other things as well so I am hoping to be in the $500ish to $600ish range because I need to get a reference Blu-ray/SACD/DVD player as well. Please any recommendations would be very appreciated and I have no problems with buying used equipment. Any thoughts ideas on Blu-ray/SACD would be well appraised also. I am still kinda new to this so if you see anything else I could upgrade please let me know. I am open to new ideas and need them and will really appreciate it. Thanks so much. This is such a great site smile.gif

My room is 20x20 with cathedral ceilings.

My System:

Panasonic TC-P60GT50
Linksys Cisco E4200 v2
Boxee Box
Apple TV-2
HTPC: ASUSTeK i5-2430m Laptop
Pioneer DBP-150 Blu-ray / SACD (I want to upgrade this)
Pioneer SC-57
Audioquest Type 4 Speaker Cables
Parasound HCA-1500a 2-Channel Amp (for Mains R/L)
Blue Jean RCA Interconnects
MartinLogan EM-ESL – Xstat – Electrostatic Speakers (Mains R/L)
MartinLogan Motion 8 (Center)
MartinLogan Motion 12 Towers (Surrounds)
MartinLogan Motion 10 Towers (Rear Surrounds)
Big F12 Sub (I know I need to upgrade, I only use it for HT use. 2 Channel Stereo listening I just use my Xstats with no sub.
Belkin 3000 jolie surge protector
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post #2 of 19
2/14/13 at 11:19am
Thats a large room. Are you satified with the amount of bass that the F12 puts out in your room?
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post #3 of 19
2/14/13 at 11:36am
I would look at the new Rythmik LV12R for $549 plus shipping, it uses a servo and should work well with stats.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html
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post #4 of 19
2/14/13 at 12:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

Thats a large room. Are you satified with the amount of bass that the F12 puts out in your room?

Ya it is a pretty big room, its the room over a 2 car garage and it is also kind of a odd set up because I can only put my TV-audio set ups in the corners of the room which ends up making the room even bigger than it is. With 3 of the 4 walls have a window 3-wide thing and the other wall has the entry door to the room. The bic is really a poor match for the Xstats that are just so fast and the bic ends ups just sounding like a bunch of thumps blended together trying to catch/stay up and its just seem like it is not made for that duty. That being said Tron was on TV the other night and that Bic in HT had that entire room shaking and full of LFE. It is a great HT speaker for Large - Big sounds it just struggles with the slower, quicker actions but power wise for HT it is a real strong unit just not real focused but for the couple hundred dollars it cost it was well worth it. It will suit better in my other room in a pure HT role for what it is suited for. Thanks
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post #5 of 19
2/14/13 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

I would look at the new Rythmik LV12R for $549 plus shipping, it uses a servo and should work well with stats.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html

Nice, thanks i never heard of this sub. Do you think this would better a match than say one of HSU's that they all say are so good because it uses a servo? I don't know even what a servo is but I am glad to think there is a good match sub for my Xstats in my price range. Thanks a bunch!
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post #6 of 19
2/14/13 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsmithjack View Post

My room is 20x20 with cathedral ceilings.

You have some really nice equipment, and personally I think you'd be under-cutting it by getting a $500-$600 sub. That may become even more pronounced when you consider how much music you listen to. The other issue is that room size; I'm not sure how high your ceilings really are, but even if they're only 10 feet -- which is probably conservative -- it means you're looking at a minimum of 4000 ft^3. Unfortunately, there isn't a $500 subwoofer made which would be able to fill that much space.

It might be better to wait until you have sufficient funds to get something that will compliment your other equipment, and won't be overwhelmed by the amount of space you have.
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post #7 of 19
2/14/13 at 8:44pm
Totally agree with JimWilson. Please up your sub budget to at least $1k. The center Chanel and subwoofer are the two most important speakers for HT IMO.
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post #8 of 19
2/14/13 at 8:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

You have some really nice equipment, and personally I think you'd be under-cutting it by getting a $500-$600 sub. That may become even more pronounced when you consider how much music you listen to. The other issue is that room size; I'm not sure how high your ceilings really are, but even if they're only 10 feet -- which is probably conservative -- it means you're looking at a minimum of 4000 ft^3. Unfortunately, there isn't a $500 subwoofer made which would be able to fill that much space.

It might be better to wait until you have sufficient funds to get something that will compliment your other equipment, and won't be overwhelmed by the amount of space you have.

Thanks! Great point! I thought my room was 400sq feet never thought of height and although the ceiling is slanted with pitch of the roof the peaks are more like 15 feet. I was really wasn't thinking alot about room size wise and when I buy a sub I would like it to be the one at least for some time. If possible I would really like a sub that really compliments my xstats music wise that is smooth but i can also use in ht if that is possible. if i had to choose i would rather give up the ht thumps for tighter more precise music for my xstats but would happy if it could hold its own with tv/movies. Maybe i am asking a lot. Would the next sub up in the Rythmic line that is like $849 be something that would work. I would really like your recommendation because i really don't know what to buy and would rather wait and get the right one or hold off a cd player for now and get the right one without spending too too much if possible. Thanks a ton!
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post #9 of 19
2/15/13 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsmithjack View Post

If possible I would really like a sub that really compliments my xstats music wise that is smooth but i can also use in ht if that is possible. if i had to choose i would rather give up the ht thumps for tighter more precise music for my xstats but would happy if it could hold its own with tv/movies. Maybe i am asking a lot. Would the next sub up in the Rythmic line that is like $849 be something that would work.

What you're looking to achieve isn't unrealistic, but it costs more then your budget allows. Believe me, there are some extraordinary subwoofers available but they don't come cheap.

Without knowing which Rythmik you're referring to it's not possible for me to really comment on it, but a sub you should definitely investigate is the PowerSound Audio XV15. It's powerful, pretty musical and has a lot of output. One is probably still not enough to really fill out that room, but it won't be overwhelmed either. If you want to take it even further the XS30 is another very good value. A little better sound quality then the XV15, while matching or slightly exceeding it's overall output. But, as you've probably already surmised, it costs more too.
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post #10 of 19
2/15/13 at 3:17pm
Thread Starter 
Oh, cool that new company? I would not have thought they were up to the standards yet as the other staple internet-direct brands well adorned around here but ya that thing looks like a solid rig for sure! Do you think it would work better than say the SVS PB12-NSD for my kinda big room? Thanks for the help I really do appreciate it! I kinda keep thinking about that servo tech the other member brought to my attention the Rythmik LV12R but you may think that sub may get drowned out by my big old room. I thought that it might be a nice match with my Xstats with that cool sounding idea of that servo concept but I am sure others get there just with a differ way but again this is all pretty new too me so I place a lot on the feedback I get here...
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post #11 of 19
2/15/13 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsmithjack View Post

Oh, cool that new company? I would not have thought they were up to the standards yet as the other staple internet-direct brands well adorned around here but ya that thing looks like a solid rig for sure! Do you think it would work better than say the SVS PB12-NSD for my kinda big room? Thanks for the help I really do appreciate it! I kinda keep thinking about that servo tech the other member brought to my attention the Rythmik LV12R but you may think that sub may get drowned out by my big old room. I thought that it might be a nice match with my Xstats with that cool sounding idea of that servo concept but I am sure others get there just with a differ way but again this is all pretty new too me so I place a lot on the feedback I get here...

PSA is a new company, but the guys behind it are anything but. One of the PSA founders was also a founder of SVS - he's actually the 'V' in SVS, so there is definite pedigree there.

The PB12 is a nice subwoofer; perhaps a bit expensive, but still good nonetheless. The LV12R is an unknown quantity at the moment because there isn't much information on that one just yet. I'm supposed to be getting my review unit soon, so I'll have more on it in the future.

Either way, the volume of space you have will require a lot of subwoofer to fill, and something with a single 12" driver is not going to cut it. If you tend to listen at reference level -- meaning loud -- I have some reservations whether a single XV15 or XS30 will suffice, but I think they'll come the closest. For sure you won't find a better value today.
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post #12 of 19
2/15/13 at 5:35pm
Just get PSA XS30 or a Rythmik FV15HP and thank us later:)
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post #13 of 19
2/15/13 at 6:01pm
In the $500-600 range you will want to look at the Rythmik sub mentioned above and most likely plan on adding another at least.

For Blu-Ray SACD/DVD playback I would keep the costs down and go with this model:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/Sony-BDP-S590-Blu-ray-Player-Wi-Fi/ref=%26%2574%2561g%3d%2562l%2575r%2561yf%256fr%2575m%252d20?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1348842933&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=sony+bdp+590&tag=blurayforum-20&ASIN=B006U1YUZE#productDetails

Has everything you need including Wifi and all the apps, SACD, for under $100 shipped.

If this helps you to get your budget higher I would try to step up to the PSA XV-15 or even better, an Hsu VTF-15H (you are looking at $1K).

I had a bigger room than yours with concrete floors and the VTF-15H was pretty impressive. I like SVS, but on your budget you should be able to get more bang for your buck from Rythmik, Hsu, and PSA. I would also probably go ported based on your budget.
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post #14 of 19
2/16/13 at 10:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

PSA is a new company, but the guys behind it are anything but. One of the PSA founders was also a founder of SVS - he's actually the 'V' in SVS, so there is definite pedigree there.

The PB12 is a nice subwoofer; perhaps a bit expensive, but still good nonetheless. The LV12R is an unknown quantity at the moment because there isn't much information on that one just yet. I'm supposed to be getting my review unit soon, so I'll have more on it in the future.

Either way, the volume of space you have will require a lot of subwoofer to fill, and something with a single 12" driver is not going to cut it. If you tend to listen at reference level -- meaning loud -- I have some reservations whether a single XV15 or XS30 will suffice, but I think they'll come the closest. For sure you won't find a better value today.

Ok so I def am going to listen to u guys cuz I want the best bang for buck I can get and you all know way more than I. As in business I prefer to listen to the experts and then use their input to make a knowledgeable decision. Let me ask u if I do go with this XV15 do u think it will sound nice and smooth with music and blend nice with my Xstats music wise. It seems being ported its a little beastly but I just don't want to over power my xtats. I know it needs to be dialed in correctly and the such. I just was curious if you really thought it really had the finesse to go with a delicate/airy sounding speaker. I just don't have enough of a feel for this and is really why I am trying learn/ask about it.? I appreciate the time cuz I am leaning toward it for sure now and I just wanted to get your thoughts on maybe the sealed one unless you think the ported one is up to the task and I know you are pointing toward the ported cuz the room is so big but with blending with my xstats being main priority and after thinking on it a day so wanted to see what you thought. Thanks
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post #15 of 19
2/16/13 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsmithjack View Post

Let me ask u if I do go with this XV15 do u think it will sound nice and smooth with music and blend nice with my Xstats music wise. It seems being ported its a little beastly but I just don't want to over power my xtats. I know it needs to be dialed in correctly and the such. I just was curious if you really thought it really had the finesse to go with a delicate/airy sounding speaker. I just don't have enough of a feel for this and is really why I am trying learn/ask about it.? I appreciate the time cuz I am leaning toward it for sure now and I just wanted to get your thoughts on maybe the sealed one unless you think the ported one is up to the task and I know you are pointing toward the ported cuz the room is so big but with blending with my xstats being main priority and after thinking on it a day so wanted to see what you thought.

Your concern is not unfounded; electrostatic speakers tend to be a little finicky, and don't always play well with subwoofers. The PSA subs are actually pretty good in that regard though -- even the ported XV15 -- so it's still worth considering. Personally, I suspect the XS30 might be a little better match, but I don't think the XV15 would be bad by any means.

If you want to be certain give Tom at PSA a call (he's the V from SVS I alluded to earlier). He's very frank with his assessments and won't give you bad advice, even if it means they don't get the sale.
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post #16 of 19
2/18/13 at 6:53am
Thread Starter 
Ok so in my mind I think i have it down to just 2-subs. I have bumped my budget up to $800 - $900 range vs $500 - $600 cuz of room size and now understanding the need for a min of a 15 inch. It's down to The Xv-15 and the 15 inch hsu. The only reason I am considering the HSU is because it can be changed from ported to sealed with the plugs and I thought for room size I can use ported and get more umpth but if wanted it tighter for music I can change over to sealed and the concept seems good but it is has quite a less powerful amp and my worry is even ported it may come up short. Doing more things well verse on thing great. What do u guys think?
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post #17 of 19
2/18/13 at 8:11am
Both are good subwoofers, so neither is a bad choice. I'm not sure the HSU will work very well sealed in a room that size - it may come across as a bit weak - but that's just speculation. Having heard the XS15 first hand I would probably go with the XV15, but that's just me personally. YMMV.
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post #18 of 19
2/18/13 at 9:54am
My room is similar in size (23 x 21 x 12ish double vaulted cathedral) and I went through the process of thinking a budget of $600-800 would suffice. I had an old but excellent Velodyne 15" sealed servo unit that died. After much research, I ended up deciding I would need more ($$$ and output) and just received my Rythmik FV15HP at the end of last week. I managed to get a b-stock unit helping the budget a bit. I did an initial calibration and the results were impressive. Definitely brought my system back to life with more of an airy sensation and solid deep bass. I know I can get even better results once I go through proper placement and recalibration steps. I don't think twice about other vendor offerings and the what-if torment. I do know someday I will want to add another, but I knew that going in given my room.

Good luck with your decision and I do believe there are many quality offerings from the vendors covered in this thread.
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post #19 of 19
2/21/13 at 3:40pm
Thread Starter 
That's a sweet sub... Does it seem wanting a bit in that big old room? That whole servo concept seems pretty cool and I bet would match my Xstats pretty well. What do you have for fronts ?
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