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Need recommendation for DIY CLEAN and Powerful SUB

post #1 of 70
Thread Starter 
Hello, I am trying to add some really good bass to my living room/home theater/music listening area. The room is non sealed and is about 6000 cubic feet. I purchased a SVS PC13U and am not happy with it so I'm sending it back. I am now looking at getting dual PowerSound XV30's OR going DIY. I was hoping that some of you would be able to point me in the right direction. If I went DIY, it would need to be a relatively easy design (sealed or basic ported, IE- nothing fancy or physically really really large). Also I would like to know what's the best driver/amp combo to use, how to make/obtain a speaker grill (yes I have kids). And to a lesser extent - how to make the overall unit look decent so it blends in with the decor. And what kind of output to expect. Also as mentioned in the title, I'm looking for CLEAN, tight, fast bass, and deep enough to enjoy movies. Any help appreciated!!!
post #2 of 70
i wondered where the v from svs ended up...guess it was to start powersound.

given that he is the guy who designed that one, it is probably a pretty good performer.

that said, there is only so much to a subwoofer.

in the case of the xv30, two 15" drivers, a 6" precision port, 750 watt plate amp, and mdf enclosure, and some sort of duratex like coating.

my guess is that it is tuned right around 20hz.

two 15" drivers only need to move about 10mm in order to hit the 117db@1m spec on the website for 20-31hz, so the drivers don't have to be anything remarkable.

so if you can build that for less than $1400, i suppose it is a good deal.

as for making it look pretty, that is up to you. there are a million options. have a look at the diy gallery.
post #3 of 70
diy for ht subs is not that hard.

Bigger boxes give you more efficiency less power needed to reach full excursion. Ported gives a 3db increase which would help alot in output which seems like you want more of . Ported boxes are not that hard you just have to make sure your port length and sub displacement and bracing is really good.

sealed is really simple way to build a box with good response overall

Im a basshead so 18 is the only option when it comes to what size driver best bang for the buck!! More cone area=more output. Power is never the best way to get more output.

18 cone area around 1200 usually(Differs on subs)
15 cone area around 800 usually (differs on subs)
12 cone area around 450-500 usually (Differs on subs)

some brands off the top of my head.
Dayton audio
Obsidian Audio
Stereo Integrity
post #4 of 70
"Ported gives a 3db increase..."

~8db increase around the tuning frequency is not uncommon in a ported sub all other things equal.
post #5 of 70
also, a good chunk of what makes subs sound boomy has nothing to do with the sub at all. those large waves bounce off the walls and create local zones called "modes" where the pressure combines or subtracts creating large peaks and dips in the frequency response. placement can change how a sub performs quite a bit as can multiple subs.

http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Innovation/Documents/White%20Papers/multsubs.pdf
post #6 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i wondered where the v from svs ended up...guess it was to start powersound.

given that he is the guy who designed that one, it is probably a pretty good performer.

that said, there is only so much to a subwoofer.

in the case of the xv30, two 15" drivers, a 6" precision port, 750 watt plate amp, and mdf enclosure, and some sort of duratex like coating.

my guess is that it is tuned right around 20hz.

two 15" drivers only need to move about 10mm in order to hit the 117db@1m spec on the website for 20-31hz, so the drivers don't have to be anything remarkable.

so if you can build that for less than $1400, i suppose it is a good deal.

as for making it look pretty, that is up to you. there are a million options. have a look at the diy gallery.


Yes that's right. Any specific recommendations on driver brands/models and amp brand/models? I'm thinking about building 2-3 sealed enclosures with 18" drivers.
post #7 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dictator92 View Post

diy for ht subs is not that hard.

Bigger boxes give you more efficiency less power needed to reach full excursion. Ported gives a 3db increase which would help alot in output which seems like you want more of . Ported boxes are not that hard you just have to make sure your port length and sub displacement and bracing is really good.

sealed is really simple way to build a box with good response overall

Im a basshead so 18 is the only option when it comes to what size driver best bang for the buck!! More cone area=more output. Power is never the best way to get more output.

18 cone area around 1200 usually(Differs on subs)
15 cone area around 800 usually (differs on subs)
12 cone area around 450-500 usually (Differs on subs)

some brands off the top of my head.
Dayton audio
Obsidian Audio
Stereo Integrity

OK I'm thinking of building 2 to 3 sealed 18" drivers. I read a lot of good things about this LMS-5400 Ultra 18". But it's almost a grand just for 1. Does anyone have any personal experience with what brand/model 18" driver to recommend? Remember, i would like it as clean/loud as possible without breaking the bank. Thanks.
post #8 of 70
since you were going to buy a pair of xv30's, why not make something like that.

they work out to about 8-8.5 cubic feet or so internal volume, which would be great for a pair of dayton rss390 drivers. they are 4 ohm, so you could wire them in parallel for a net 2 ohm load. go for two enclosures, so a total of 4 drivers.

the 6" precision port can be purchased.

the cabs you can build.

the duratex can be purchased.

a simple behringer ep4000 can be had for $275 and will put out 1000 watts per channel into 2 ohms.

tuned to 21hz, that should get you the performance of two xv30's for less than the price of one.

some sort of eq and high pass would be recommended.

alternatively, a quad set of dayton rss460 drivers, four 4 cubic foot sealed flat packs from diysoundgroup, and a cerwin vega cvx5000 amplifier would make some noise. :-0

there are lots of options.
post #9 of 70
here are the two systems, grey is 4x15" dayton 390ho ported xv30 clones, red is 4x dayton 18" 460ho in sealed.

either system would be KILLER.

post #10 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

here are the two systems, grey is 4x15" dayton 390ho ported xv30 clones, red is 4x dayton 18" 460ho in sealed.

either system would be KILLER.


what program is this?
post #11 of 70
Thread Starter 
Does anyone know where I can find good quality sealed enclosure kits for dual opposed 18" drivers?? This would help save some time and effort on my part for sure.
post #12 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by digital911 View Post

Does anyone know where I can find good quality sealed enclosure kits for dual opposed 18" drivers?? This would help save some time and effort on my part for sure.

Glue two of these back to back wink.gif

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/4-sub-flat-pack.html
post #13 of 70
6000 cubes is rather large, no wonder you were unhappy with the U13's.

8 Dayton HO 18's dual-opposing sealed and 4 NU3000DSP's would be a huge jump beyond what your previous system could do.
Obviously 8 LMS and 4 FP14K Lab clones would be better still (if you have the money for it).

You can of course scale up to this, starting with 2 or 4 and then adding more later, as you desire more and more and more bass.

That's what I would do.
-My two cents.
Edited by BassThatHz - 2/15/13 at 1:52pm
post #14 of 70
post #15 of 70
not sure, but i think there might be some dual opposed flat packs in the works at diysoundgroup.
post #16 of 70
Thread Starter 
Would gluing two 18" sealed enclosures back to back (http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/4-sub-flat-pack.html) achieve the same thing as building one box with dual opposed sealed 18" drivers?

And what about plate amps, should I stay away from them??

I want an AMP that has low THD and it seems the cheap amps don't even list what their THD spec is. I was looking at this amp to drive 4 18" 4ohm drivers:

http://www.cerwinvega.com/pro-audio/high-performance-amplifiers/cv-5000.html

Anyone have anything better to recommend for the cost?

Thanks.
post #17 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Great thanks for sharing.
post #18 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

since you were going to buy a pair of xv30's, why not make something like that.

they work out to about 8-8.5 cubic feet or so internal volume, which would be great for a pair of dayton rss390 drivers. they are 4 ohm, so you could wire them in parallel for a net 2 ohm load. go for two enclosures, so a total of 4 drivers.

the 6" precision port can be purchased.

the cabs you can build.

the duratex can be purchased.

a simple behringer ep4000 can be had for $275 and will put out 1000 watts per channel into 2 ohms.

tuned to 21hz, that should get you the performance of two xv30's for less than the price of one.

some sort of eq and high pass would be recommended.

alternatively, a quad set of dayton rss460 drivers, four 4 cubic foot sealed flat packs from diysoundgroup, and a cerwin vega cvx5000 amplifier would make some noise. :-0

there are lots of options.

Do you think 2 Powersound XV30's would be sufficient for 6000 CuFt? Reference level is the goal.
post #19 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by digital911 View Post

Would gluing two 18" sealed enclosures back to back (http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/4-sub-flat-pack.html) achieve the same thing as building one box with dual opposed sealed 18" drivers?

And what about plate amps, should I stay away from them??

I want an AMP that has low THD and it seems the cheap amps don't even list what their THD spec is. I was looking at this amp to drive 4 18" 4ohm drivers:

http://www.cerwinvega.com/pro-audio/high-performance-amplifiers/cv-5000.html

Anyone have anything better to recommend for the cost?

Thanks.

Actually I'd like to go plate if possible... Seems very convenient. If anyone can recommend a solid clean plate amp to power two Dayton 18" RSS460HO-4 drivers that would be great. Thing is I want to put 2 of these subs in one box, so if I wired them in parallel the load would be 2 ohms, and not many amps like that. And if I wired them in series i'd get an 8ohm load, which I don't think I'm going to find a plate amp that has enough juice to satisfy both of these 18's @ 8ohms. I can't find anywhere that Dayton makes these subs 8ohms. What do ya'll think I should do???
post #20 of 70
I would skip the plate amp if possible.
You will have much more money wrapped up in much less power.
The plate amps that are going to do justice to that setup are mighty pricey and under performing.
When it is all said and done a pro amp can be more convenient when you only have to run speaker wires to your sub(s).
post #21 of 70
A plate amp will have a high pass filter around 20hz that completely defeats the purpose of multiple 18" sealed subs. If you really really want to use a plate amp, then you should consider a ported build. A single RS 18 in 8 ft3 tuned to 20 hz with a 1000 watt plate amp will get you 115 db down to 22hz anechoic (119 db from 40hz up). 2-4 of those subs would be pretty impressive if your goal is reference level at 20 hz.
post #22 of 70
Ported is the way to go for a plate amp, if you wanna use those flatpack and go sealed pick up an EP4000 or an inuke3000 to power 2 of them
post #23 of 70
"Do you think 2 Powersound XV30's would be sufficient for 6000 CuFt? Reference level is the goal."

depending on how lossy the walls are, how open the area is, what kind of furnishings etc. you have in there, how far you are from the subs and so on, i would call it a borderline yes.
post #24 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

A plate amp will have a high pass filter around 20hz that completely defeats the purpose of multiple 18" sealed subs. If you really really want to use a plate amp, then you should consider a ported build. A single RS 18 in 8 ft3 tuned to 20 hz with a 1000 watt plate amp will get you 115 db down to 22hz anechoic (119 db from 40hz up). 2-4 of those subs would be pretty impressive if your goal is reference level at 20 hz.

OK I didn't know plates were designed for ported. Let me ask you this, I've had a lot of experience with car audio in the 90's and always preferred sealed enclosures to ported, as to me, the sealed always gave me tighter, cleaner, punchier, more accurate bass. Ported seemed to be good at a small frequency while abandoning the rest. Also should mention this is my first home theater/home music build. I guess the grand question here is, will sealed enclosures perform well with the ultra low frequencies that are on movies now a days? I know they will perform well in the mid and upper bass.
Like I said earlier, I'm looking for reference (115DB right?) output across the bass spectrum in a 6000 cubic foot room. Will 2 x dual18's sealed handle this? If not I need to focus my efforts on determining what will, then start a build from there.

Thanks.


post #25 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Do you think 2 Powersound XV30's would be sufficient for 6000 CuFt? Reference level is the goal."

depending on how lossy the walls are, how open the area is, what kind of furnishings etc. you have in there, how far you are from the subs and so on, i would call it a borderline yes.

What about 2 sets of dual opposed sealed 18"s? (total of 4 18" drivers) ?

Or even 2 x 18" sealed (total of 2 18" drivers)?
post #26 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

I would skip the plate amp if possible.
You will have much more money wrapped up in much less power.
The plate amps that are going to do justice to that setup are mighty pricey and under performing.
When it is all said and done a pro amp can be more convenient when you only have to run speaker wires to your sub(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

Ported is the way to go for a plate amp, if you wanna use those flatpack and go sealed pick up an EP4000 or an inuke3000 to power 2 of them

Most of the pro amps have XLR inputs. I have an Onkyo TX-NR1010 receiver which doesn't have XLR connections. How do I get my sub outs (RCA connections) to communicate with a Pro amp?
post #27 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by digital911 View Post

OK I didn't know plates were designed for ported. Let me ask you this, I've had a lot of experience with car audio in the 90's and always preferred sealed enclosures to ported, as to me, the sealed always gave me tighter, cleaner, punchier, more accurate bass. Ported seemed to be good at a small frequency while abandoning the rest. Also should mention this is my first home theater/home music build. I guess the grand question here is, will sealed enclosures perform well with the ultra low frequencies that are on movies now a days? I know they will perform well in the mid and upper bass.
Like I said earlier, I'm looking for reference (115DB right?) output across the bass spectrum in a 6000 cubic foot room. Will 2 x dual18's sealed handle this? If not I need to focus my efforts on determining what will, then start a build from there.

Thanks.



The car environment is completely different, you get massive amounts of cabin gain. This works well with the rolloff of a tiny sealed box. A large home environment doesnt provide this type of gain, and the natural flat response of a ported box has a huge output advantage down to its tuning point. You will not have a boomy one note setup with a 20hz tuned RS18.

Here for example, a single RS18 in 9ft3 20hz tune (green) with 1K watts, vs two RS18's in 9ft3 sealed (blue) with 1300 watts (2 channels from EP4K @ 4ohm)


Each ported sub costs $250 + $338 = $588
Each dual sealed sub cost $500 +$275 = $775
post #28 of 70
$5 cable will do the trick.

Like THIS.
post #29 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

The car environment is completely different, you get massive amounts of cabin gain. This works well with the rolloff of a tiny sealed box. A large home environment doesnt provide this type of gain, and the natural flat response of a ported box has a huge output advantage down to its tuning point. You will not have a boomy one note setup with a 20hz tuned RS18.

Here for example, a single RS18 in 9ft3 20hz tune (green) with 1K watts, vs two RS18's in 9ft3 sealed (blue) with 1300 watts (2 channels from EP4K @ 4ohm)


Each ported sub costs $250 + $338 = $588
Each dual sealed sub cost $500 +$275 = $775

OK, so basically you're recommending I go with two of these ported units? The output advantage is great as long as it continues to play accurate and tight. What kind of output would I be looking at with two of these?

Also what is the $338 amount for?

Thanks.
post #30 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

$5 cable will do the trick.

Like THIS.

I wish all the questions were this easy! Thanks.
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