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*WOW* ... SVP +1080p Animation = OMG ! (60 frames per second for the win!) - Page 6

post #151 of 660
Thanks for the answers Mfusick and Rene. I'll go ahead with the plan soon with the above components plus a 7790 and drives of course.
post #152 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post


Are you saying you always want it on... or always want it off.

personally I prefer turning it on when I want it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post


I think the main problem is when playing back telecined contents and interlaced contents.

- Telecined contents: ffdshow Video Decoder (libavcodec) is recommended. ffdshow ivtcs most (but not every, of course) telecined contents (soft telecined, hard telecined, SD, full HD) correctly so that SVP interpolates frames to 23.976fps x 5/2 = 59.94fps. You may need to add the tag "deint=Off" in the file name to avoid extra work in GPU (this tag works only with the latest madVR). Avoid LAV Video Decoder (well, the only codec in telecined contents may be MPEG-2, so just disable MPEG-2 in LAV Video Decoder).
- Interlaced contents: ffdshow + yadif (doubling frame rate) comes into mind first, but it won't work, SVP still thinks the frame rate is 29.97fps. SVP developers recommend LAV CUVID that can deinterlace before SVP, and in fact it works. But it can't ivtc correctly. Moreover not everybody uses NVIDIA. So the only satisfactory solution seems to be disable SVP for all interlaced contents, and afaik there is no automated way to disable SVP for intelraced contents.

I guess I was thinking I could leave the resolution changer in Madvr set for 23.976 and then on titles like CARS that I would want SVP to run I could use the refresh rate 59 token. That way I could have it work automatically. Rene you say avoid Lav Video Decoder? Is that for everything that you recommend that, I thought LAV was usually recommended? Also given what I have setup shouldn't it work fine with LAV Video and ffdshow raw filter both in MPC external filters with lav prefer and raw below? Why will raw filter only work if I set it to prefer or block LAV. The way I read the first posts makes it sound like I can have LAV Video Decoder set to prefer and raw filter below that and that MPC will use LAV for 23.976 content and ffdshow for 59 SVP playback but it doesn't work for me this way. Maybe I need to re install it all.

post #153 of 660
There are three types of contents:

- Telecined (DVD movies, SD/HD broadcast movies)
- Interlaced (DVD/BD videos, SD/HD broadcast videos, camcorders)
- Progressive (BD movies, recent camcorders)

(Telecined contents are also interlaced, but different in that the origin is film as opposed to video.) For SVP to process the video stream correctly, the stream must be progressive, i.e. a telecined content must be inverse telecined (aka film-mode deinterlacing) (60i --> 24p) and an interlaced content must be deinterlaced (aka video-mode deinterlacing) (60i --> 60p) before SVP.

Here comes a problem: when you use madVR, it always (film/video-mode) deinterlace contents at the final stage of the video playback chain, that's too late for SVP to work correctly. Solutions are:

- Inverse telecine: ffdshow Video Decoder can do that before SVP.
- Deinterlacing: It looks like CUVID is the only satisfactory solution. Or disable SVP (SVP won't do frame interpolation anyway on 60p video stream even if it is on).
Edited by renethx - 5/16/13 at 8:52am
post #154 of 660

Can someone who is using SVP with MPC-HC and successfully bitstreaming HD audio share their setup?

 

I had MPC-HC installed and bitstreaming worked when I had the Shark codecs installed. But after uninstalling Shark's codecs and installing SVP I no longer have bitstreaming.

post #155 of 660
HD audio bitstreaming is independent of the video playback pipeline (e.g. SVP is on or off). Can you bitstream HD audio without SVP? If so, then you should be able to bitstream HD audio with SVP.
post #156 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

HD audio bitstreaming is independent of the video playback pipeline (e.g. SVP is on or off). Can you bitstream HD audio without SVP? If so, then you should be able to bitstream HD audio with SVP.

 

Yes, with the latest version from the MPC-HC web site and the Shark007 codecs set to bitstream. I have to uncheck the DTS and Dolby processors and disable the audio switcher in MPC-HC. Perect bitstreaming.

 

To test SVP, I uninstalled the Shark007 codecs and MPC-HC. I then let SVP install its own MPC-HC version plus Haali, madVR, Avisynth and FFDshow. This resulted in perfect SVP playback but no bitstreaming, only LPCM output. Plus that when I try to run MPC-HC in full screen mode it throws up a big "Out of memory" message in the middle of the screen (but playback continues).

 

So something in the SVP package insists on decoding the bitstreams into LPCM. When SVP is active, the Haali, madVR and FFDshow video applets are in the taskbar menu, indicating no 3rd party audio decoders are active. I suppose that means MPC-HC is decoding the audio despite I set it not to?

 

The only reason I installed the Shark codecs was to get bitstreaming of HD audio from MKVs (I am very wary of codec packages) so I'd much rather not use it at all.

 

This is on a Win 8 x64 system, Core i3-3220, nVidia GT640, 8GB RAM. Being x64 I need MPC-HC so I have a 32-bit player that can do SVP.

 

Now, assuming a clean Win 8 with only the Shark codecs, is there a step by step guide to the MINIMUM I need to install in order to get SVP working and not lose bitstreaming? Can I use SVP with the MPC-HC version from their site rather than the one that comes with SVP?

post #157 of 660
There are only two DirectShow audio decoders in the world (that works with MPC-HC) that supports HD audio bitstreaming:

- LAV Audio Decoder
- ffdshow Audio Decoder

You have to install either of them (the latter is automatically installed if you install ffdshow), configure it properly (choose "bitstreaming" not "decoding"), then add it to External Filters of MPC-HC and set it to "Preferred".
Edited by renethx - 5/23/13 at 4:41am
post #158 of 660
Well I almost got it working perfectly. I reverted back to a state with just the Shark codecs, then installed SVP again, including its bundled MPC-HC.

The result was that SVP worked perfectly including bit streaming of lossy Dolby tracks and both core DTS and DTS-MA.

But when I tried to play MKVs with TrueHD or LPCM audio, MPC-HC threw an error about "not being able to render some pins in the graph". Dismissing the error popup resulted in extremely choppy, silent video.
post #159 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by politby View Post

I reverted back to a state with just the Shark codecs, then installed SVP again, including its bundled MPC-HC.

Most likely, the player is the problem.
For people using my codecs, I recommend that they use the 'Lite' version of MPC-HC available directly from the developer, HERE
Lite = no internal codecs, meaning system codecs are used (my software installs codecs for use by the entire system)
No player configuration is required. Whatever you set on the Audio TAB of my Settings Application will be used by the player.
post #160 of 660
I'm getting closer. On a hunch I removed the Haali splitter - I assume thereby relying on MPC-HC's internal splitter.

This restored all video and audio playback through SVP including bitstreaming.

But I now get the big red "Out of memory" error in the middle of the screen when MPC-HC is in fullscreen. In windowed mode it works fine. And the system is not running out of memory. smile.gif

I think I need to try your lite version, Shark. Do I first set up your codecs, then install MPC-HC, then SVP?

Or should I install SVP before MPC-HC?

I noticed SVP installs its MPC-HC in its own location, which required a hack for My Movies to find it. I would prefer it in the default location - I assume that won't matter to SVP.

One last thing I am concerned about is subtitles. I want MPC-HC to handle subs because I can easily toggle them using keyboard shortcuts. Will that stop working if all internal filters are disabled?
Edited by politby - 5/23/13 at 11:12pm
post #161 of 660
What's so difficult? Removing Haali Media Splitter is right (unless you want to use eac3to or ripbot264), LAV Spliiter is generally better. Install the following:

General video playback software:

- LAV Filters 0.57 (the latest): A collection of source/splitter filter and video/audio decoders.
- madVR v0.86.1 (the latest): A video renderer. This is optional, you can use EVR instead.
- MPC-HC 1.6.7.7114.x86 (the latest): A DirectShow player that supports madVR. You can use any DirectShow player, of course, for example, Windows Media Player.

Follow the instruction in the MPC-HC sticky thread and make sure video playback works. This is pretty standard and should not be difficult. The filter graph should look like this:
Code:
LAV Source Splitter --> LAV Video Decoder --> Enhanced Video Renderer
                    --> LAV Audio Decoder --> Default DirectSound

If you want subtitles, you should use Enhanced Video Renderer (Custom Presesnter) or madVR. Using MPC-HC's subtitle engine is generally easier than using a subtitle filter such as DirectVobSub=VSFitler.

Next, SVP-related software:

- Avisynth 2.5.8
- Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 MFC Security Update
- ffdShow rev.4507 x86 (the latest)
- SVP Lite 3.4.1

To make SVP work with MPC-HC, add "ffdshow raw video filter" in External Filters and set it to "Preferred". That's it. The filter graph should look like this:
Code:
LAV Source Splitter --> LAV Video Decoder --> ffdshow raw video filter --> Enhanced Video Renderer
                    --> LAV Audio Decoder --> Default DirectSound

ffdshow raw video filter calls SVP via Avisynth script and SVP interpolates video frames, then sends them to the video renderer. The point is insert ffdshow raw video filter (or ffdshow Video Decoder if you want ffdshow to decode video) in the video playback chain. SVP works even with WMP / WMC this way.
Edited by renethx - 5/24/13 at 12:50am
post #162 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

What's so difficult? Removing Haali Media Splitter is right (unless you want to use eac3to or ripbot264), LAV Spliiter is generally better. Install the following:

{snip}
The point is insert ffdshow raw video filter (or ffdshow Video Decoder if you want ffdshow to decode video) in the video playback chain. SVP works even with WMP / WMC this way.

 

Well, in the end it wasn't difficult at all rolleyes.gif

 

I think the problem was the MPC-HC version that comes with SVP. After installing the official version of MPC-HC and with your help figuring out that what I wanted to use in MPC-HC was FFDshow raw filter, not the video decoder, everything works. 

 

And to think I have been fighting the uphill battle with PDVD and TMT for YEARS and all that got me was stutter. I now have butter smooth playback with full res audio, working, toggleable subtitles, chapter skipping, and full remote control of 8MC/My Movies/MPC-HC from my tablet with iRule.

 

But best of all, no more pulldown judder on my projector - which I can't run on 24p because I was too cheap to buy a real HDbase-T HDMI/Cat6 extender. Not that I could ever get 24p working on PDVD or TMT, but still...

 

Watching movies is FUN again! biggrin.gif 


Edited by politby - 5/24/13 at 3:58am
post #163 of 660

One more question: I can run level 3g on my i3-3220/GT640 combo with no problem, but it does not utilize the GPU much. GPU load does not go over 30% while CPU load peaks at 70%. Anything I can do to make more use of the GPU and maybe run at a higher level? madVR?

post #164 of 660
Thread Starter 
3G is with video card and 3c is CPU.
post #165 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

3G is with video card and 3c is CPU.

Which is why I am wondering why GPU load does not go above 30%. Tried 4g but that was too much for the CPU.

post #166 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by politby View Post

One more question: I can run level 3g on my i3-3220/GT640 combo with no problem, but it does not utilize the GPU much. GPU load does not go over 30% while CPU load peaks at 70%. Anything I can do to make more use of the GPU and maybe run at a higher level? madVR?

The optimal settings for your CPU/GPU may be:

- SVP: Level 3g, with OpenCL on
- MadVR: chroma upscaling BiCubic75+AR, image upscaling Lanczos3+AR

With these settings, CPU / GPU usage of AMD A8-5500 APU are
Code:
Source:    SD  HD  FHD
CPU usage: 32% 50% 71%
GPU usage: 56% 64% 64%

Core i3-3220 / GT 640 should be slightly better than this.

3c is lower than 3g in quality, it is intended to run on CPU only, with OpenCL off (for a system with a weak GPU). But 3g can also run on CPU only with OpenCL off, while you can also use GPU for 3c by enabling OpenCL. In other words, you can enable / disable GPU acceleration by turning on / off Open CL regardless of the suffix "g" or "c".
Edited by renethx - 5/24/13 at 7:13am
post #167 of 660
Thread Starter 
Rene have you tested memory clock speed or latency or amount of ram in MADVR or SVP ?

Does 8 GB improve performance of either MADVR or SVP ? Does faster better ram help ?
post #168 of 660
As for system memory, faster memory is slightly better. DDR3-1600 is usually good enough (nevertheless I recommend DDR3-2400 because the price difference is very small). A 32-bit application can't use more than 4GB memory. Memory usage of MPC-HC at video playback with SVP+madVR is usually << 4GB. 64-bit SVP will be necessary to interpolate 4Kx2K contents.
post #169 of 660
I'm on my tablet, so not going to hunt for the article. I believe it was Anandtech with a recent article on RAM stating that the current sweet spot for price/performance is 1866. That said, if latency isn't a concern I'd still go with 2400.
post #170 of 660
Thread Starter 
I only asked because my HTPC was recently upgraded from 1600mhz to 2400 and without serious testing it appears to run smoother.

Occasionally if I combine MADVR +reclock + SVP my HTPC i5 would protest .,. Only on 4G too. After the ram change I seem to be able to go 5G now. I'm not sure what my setting in MADVR were before ... But placing them on max with SVP too appears to be a little too much.
post #171 of 660
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

I'm on my tablet, so not going to hunt for the article. I believe it was Anandtech with a recent article on RAM stating that the current sweet spot for price/performance is 1866. That said, if latency isn't a concern I'd still go with 2400.

I'm not a fan of Anand at all. Ever notice they review mostly only products that advertise ? And those always get extra favorable reviews ?

It's been many occasions where I've read reviews at Toms, storage review, and a bunch of other good review sites basically all saying the same things- then I read Anand and its clear they are reaching and puffing up the product. Then I'll see where other review sites will clearly demonstrate superiority in a product and Anand downplays that because its not a paid advertiser.

I remember when OCZ stopped advertising and about 6 months of OCZ negative articles kept spewing out... Then they renewed the advertising again and glowing positive reviews started pouring out .... Lol

I can't take much serious anymore with Anand. It's a business and nothing more.
post #172 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I'm not a fan of Anand at all. Ever notice they review mostly only products that advertise ? And those always get extra favorable reviews ?

It's been many occasions where I've read reviews at Toms, storage review, and a bunch of other good review sites basically all saying the same things- then I read Anand and its clear they are reaching and puffing up the product. Then I'll see where other review sites will clearly demonstrate superiority in a product and Anand downplays that because its not a paid advertiser.

I remember when OCZ stopped advertising and about 6 months of OCZ negative articles kept spewing out... Then they renewed the advertising again and glowing positive reviews started pouring out .... Lol

I can't take much serious anymore with Anand. It's a business and nothing more.

Because OCZ was producing garbage products--Anand was not the only one to encounter a lot of problems, and if not for the 1.5 firmware update on the Vertex 3, OCZ likely would have gone under due to the failure of that line. Intel delayed the release of their Sandforce-based SSDs because of the exact same firmware issue until they could ensure the bug was fixed. OCZ products since then have been pretty solid, but it takes time to demonstrate that a line of SSDs is not going to suffer from the same data-destroying failures. OCZ had always been a little questionable in the Quality Control department, and the Vertex 3 fiasco only made that worse. The sites that did not report on this, or continued to recommend OCZ products throughout the reports of failures springing up all over the web, are the sites that I had a hard time trusting any more.

Anandtech's advertising folks are entirely separated from the reviewers, as they've clearly outlined. Tomshardware may have changed things, but in the past, Tom himself was found to be buying/selling Intel stock in advance of reviews coming out (this was mainly back when AMD was actually competitive at the high end). That might well have been "hey, I know this product is going to rock, so I'm going to make some money on it" and not "I'm going to make this product sound amazing so I can make more money", but it's a fine line. Anandtech actually takes their reviews much deeper and more in depth than the majority of other sites. I have no doubt that bias exists in the opinion parts of reviews on all sites, but the benchmarks don't lie. I've yet to see any statistically valid discrepancies in benchmarks between the major review sites.
post #173 of 660
Thread Starter 
You work for Anand or something ? Lol.

Perhaps the OCZ example wasn't the best choice I could have used because its so popular. There's lots more examples.

I do clearly remember when the first OCZ article came out someone started a post in forum called "anyone notice the OCZ ads are gone" and it came out in that thread they pulled advertising about two weeks before the article. It nearly went viral then got deleted by a mod.

Then I clearly remember another thread saying "OCZ add are back" and it was just comical it was the first defense of Sandforce controller and claims the firmware fixed it. Timing was so perfectly funny to me.

It's just too funny to me, I could never take them serious again.

But OCZ issues have too much emotion behind them to be good examples so I should have used the Seagate / WD example or a mobo example instead ...

If you hang out in the forums the mods are clearly biased on many issues, even deleting and editing posts lol.. You can't even discuss this over there. It's been tried many times.

The site is crap, I've stopped following it.

There is like 50 other PC hardware sites like it anyways so its not a big deal. As a business I would rate it near the top, its run well and has a plethora of advertisers constantly. It's certainly successful on that front. It's just clear that its priority is profitability.
Edited by Mfusick - 5/26/13 at 8:20am
post #174 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

Because OCZ was producing garbage products--Anand was not the only one to encounter a lot of problems, and if not for the 1.5 firmware update on the Vertex 3, OCZ likely would have gone under due to the failure of that line.

Anand also updated their findings to reflect that the issue had been resolved.

I didn't check, did ads start up again? tongue.gif
post #175 of 660
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure I removed Anand from my frequently visited sites smile.gif
post #176 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You work for Anand or something ? Lol.

Perhaps the OCZ example wasn't the best choice I could have used because its so popular. There's lots more examples.

I do clearly remember when the first OCZ article came out someone started a post in forum called "anyone notice the OCZ ads are gone" and it came out in that thread they pulled advertising about two weeks before the article. It nearly went viral then got deleted by a mod.

Then I clearly remember another thread saying "OCZ add are back" and it was just comical it was the first defense of Sandforce controller and claims the firmware fixed it. Timing was so perfectly funny to me.

It's just too funny to me, I could never take them serious again.

But OCZ issues have too much emotion behind them to be good examples so I should have used the Seagate / WD example or a mobo example instead ...

If you hang out in the forums the mods are clearly biased on many issues, even deleting and editing posts lol.. You can't even discuss this over there. It's been tried many times.

The site is crap, I've stopped following it.

There is like 50 other PC hardware sites like it anyways so its not a big deal. As a business I would rate it near the top, its run well and has a plethora of advertisers constantly. It's certainly successful on that front. It's just clear that its priority is profitability.

No, I don't work for them. I just think your argument is awful weak with zero actual evidence to back it up. It's pretty ridiculous to make a claim like that without providing solid examples of the behavior. I could care less about their forums - those are not the same as the editorial content and reviews, which is all I go to Anandtech for. What's the "Seagate / WD" example or mobo example you've got? You claim you stopped visiting the site. I still visit Tomshardware, despite my reservations about them. I don't rely on a single site for reviews, but I have yet to find a conclusion reached by Anandtech that I disagree with. If you still believe the problems that OCZ had were made up because of advertising issues, then I'm not going to bother discussing this anymore, because you're clearly blind to reality.
post #177 of 660
Thread Starter 
Your assuming a lot and jumping to conclusions. When I said your work for them was a joke/ sarcasm - I found it odd you'd defend them so hard.

I don't think they made anything up about OCZ - like I said bad example smile.gif

I'm not sure it worth discussing this further here and further detailing this thread. I see no positives to be gained by any possible outcome. Lets just leave it at I am free to dislike Anand personally even if you don't agree.
post #178 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Your assuming a lot and jumping to conclusions. When I said your work for them was a joke/ sarcasm - I found it odd you'd defend them so hard.

I don't think they made anything up about OCZ - like I said bad example smile.gif

I'm not sure it worth discussing this further here and further detailing this thread. I see no positives to be gained by any possible outcome. Lets just leave it at I am free to dislike Anand personally even if you don't agree.

Not sure what it is you think I assumed or what conclusions you think I am jumping to. I don't like people who make ridiculous claims about others and then can't back it up. You're welcome to dislike people personally (why you phrase it that way, I'm not sure), but if you're going to trash them, at least be prepared to back it up. There are a lot of people I've encountered in various ways online that I dislike or disagree with, but I'm not going to start claiming what their motives are, that their site/opinions are crap, or that they are being intentionally dishonest unless I have some decent examples of that behavior. That's exactly the sort of thing that turns forums into steaming piles of vitriol where the loudest opinion becomes revered as fact and repeated over and over by the masses.
post #179 of 660
Thread Starter 
Isn't that Anand forums ... Lol
post #180 of 660
At least in Germany the price difference isn't exactly small.
48,71€ for the cheapest 2x4GB 1600Mhz kit.
70,44€ for the cheapest 2x4GB 2400Mhz kit.

44.6% increase in cost and what's the real world difference hmm?

I run my Samsung RAM at 2000, it requires only 1.35v so I'm happy with that. I could go to 2133 or 2400 but would need to increase the voltage and possibly loosen my timings so don't think it's really worth the extra effort..

Would the SVP bench show the differences clearly? Since I could go and run the test few times at 2000, then lower the RAM back down to 1600 and run it again and compare the results.
But not right now though, some nasty virus keeping me in bed but hopefully it passes soon. Can't be bothered to sit infront of my computer fiddling with stuff when feeling like this :/

Sent from my GNote
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